Changing balance point or what?

Hifade · May 9, 2019

So, the cliff notes version is this: I've experimented with several shafts over the past few seasons but keep coming back to Tour V's, due to lots of success with them. Recently, I ordered a set of Cally Apex 19's in black with Tour V's installed, all to my spec. Frankly, early on, I struggled more than ever before with finding the center of the face with these. I swing weighted them and they all came in a right near D2.....so, pretty consistent throughout the set. I loaded a few heads, meticulously and identically, with lead tape to see if I could gain some consistency through more head feel and an increased SW. Surprisingly, that did nothing. Then, on a whim, I wrapped the bottom of the shaft, just above the ferrule, with a two 3" pieces of that same HD lead tape, on two of the irons. In no less than two swings, I began to grease both clubs, hitting it flush and dead nut in the center every swing thereafter. Obviously, I immediately wrapped each iron (shaft) the same way and found identical results with each iron. Incredible! So, my question(s) is/are....what's the "net net" here? What actually happened? Did I change the balance point of the club by adding that 6 grams of weight that low, or did I change the effective weight of the shaft, fulcrum......or what's happened?

Valtiel · May 9, 2019

Honestly you pretty much did the same thing as when you put the lead tape on the heads. For the amount of weight you added there wouldn't really be any difference between back of the club head and end of the shaft, they would both be perceived as head weight. It would be good to replicate your results on a different day to rule out just being warmed up by that point.

Hifade · May 9, 2019

> @Valtiel said:

> Honestly you pretty much did the same thing as when you put the lead tape on the heads. For the amount of weight you added there wouldn't really be any difference between back of the club head and end of the shaft, they would both be perceived as head weight. It would be good to replicate your results on a different day to rule out just being warmed up by that point.

I appreciate your reply. That's exactly what I thought; remove as many variables as possible, beginning with and potential swing inconsistencies from day tom day. At a +3, mine do tend to be minimal. To that end, having now played with this adjusted "set-up" for 3 rounds (and on 3 different days), something different has actually happened. AS we all know, placement of 6-8 grams can make a significant difference from the back of the bottom of the head vs. the on the shaft, over 6 inches away from the back of the bottom of the head. For one, I believe there would be less bowing (toe down) of the shaft with the weight up the shaft and above the hosel, instead on the back of the head and low as described. That makes good sense when you think about weight distribution and then what actually occurs with the head and shaft during the swing. Something more mechanical or mathematical is in play here and can be explained, I'm sure.....just gotta figure it out.

Valtiel · May 10, 2019

> @Hifade said:

> > @Valtiel said:

> > Honestly you pretty much did the same thing as when you put the lead tape on the heads. For the amount of weight you added there wouldn't really be any difference between back of the club head and end of the shaft, they would both be perceived as head weight. It would be good to replicate your results on a different day to rule out just being warmed up by that point.

>

> I appreciate your reply. That's exactly what I thought; remove as many variables as possible, beginning with and potential swing inconsistencies from day tom day. At a +3, mine do tend to be minimal. To that end, having now played with this adjusted "set-up" for 3 rounds (and on 3 different days), something different has actually happened. AS we all know, placement of 6-8 grams can make a significant difference from the back of the bottom of the head vs. the on the shaft, over 6 inches away from the back of the bottom of the head. For one, I believe there would be less bowing (toe down) of the shaft with the weight up the shaft and above the hosel, instead on the back of the head and low as described. That makes good sense when you think about weight distribution and then what actually occurs with the head and shaft during the swing. Something more mechanical or mathematical is in play here and can be explained, I'm sure.....just gotta figure it out.

There is definitely something, that is for sure, and at a +3 we can certainly rule out any of the more amateur swing variations. What kind of swing speeds do you produce? 6-8 grams is not likely to have a noticeable impact on shaft bowing unless you're bringing some serious speed and/or have a very late, hard release. Also I forgot to ask, did you put the same amount of weight on the back of the heads when you first tested?

Howard_Jones · May 10, 2019

Toe drop depening on where we add weight..

If we look at it from a SW point of view, we get to see that if we use a Tip weight of 10 grams, vs lead tape behind COG of the club head, we are still below 1 grams less down at 1.25/1.5 below the shaft tip to get to the same SW value

if SW value changes, flex and bending changes both ways, but 1 gram is only 0.5 SWP and the same 0.5 CPM so thats about the max we go softer who can add toe drop ....forget it, it want change enough to be measured, our own varieties will hide it.

We are not able to measure a difference to added loft down at this level, and if it was a robot and this flex difference was as forward shaft bending (90* axis vs toe drop), it would cause a APEX 0.5 feets higher....so on lie angle, we are below the tolerances we can adjust clubs to, who is about 0.25*