Player of the year

[gvogel]

> @NevinW said:

> When the PGA Tour broke off from the PGA, that meant that the PGA Championship was always at risk of slipping as a major and being replaced by something produced by the PGA Tour. While I still consider the PGA to be a major and is more important than the Players Championship it is clear that the Players is increasing in prestige despite what some around here think. This vote reflects that thinking. One could argue that if the Players was played on a more conventional championship golf course it would have already slipped by the PGA. That Stadium Dye course is **slightly** goofy.

 

More than slightly.

[LICC]

> @gvogel said:

> > @NevinW said:

> > When the PGA Tour broke off from the PGA, that meant that the PGA Championship was always at risk of slipping as a major and being replaced by something produced by the PGA Tour. While I still consider the PGA to be a major and is more important than the Players Championship it is clear that the Players is increasing in prestige despite what some around here think. This vote reflects that thinking. One could argue that if the Players was played on a more conventional championship golf course it would have already slipped by the PGA. That Stadium Dye course is **slightly** goofy.

>

> More than slightly.

 

How so?

[OldTomMorris]

> @LICC said:

> > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but that's just me..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is simply wrong to suggest its only the media calling it a major. Everyone in golf recognises these 4 tournaments are a notch above the rest. They carry more prestige with players, sponsors, the other tours etc. plus they are recognised as more important with OWGR points, FedEx Cup points etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd actually suggest its mostly the PGA Tour and their media partners that tell us that the Players is the equal of say the PGA, which it's not if you ask the overwhelming majority of people who take an interest in golf.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just baselessly speculating. The PGA Championship does not confer more FedEx points than the Players. It is the same. Golf fans I know don’t consider the PGA more prestigious than the Players.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Its not baseless nor is it speculation. PGA Tour decides Fed Ex Cup points hence they elevate the Players onto the same level but pretty much everyone else sees it differently except you and your friends.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > You made the incorrect statement about FedEx points. I corrected you. Your statement that everyone in golf places the PGA above the Players is baseless speculation. As i is your comment that everyone sees it differently than me. Just look above in this thread for others that have the same view as me.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The majors do carry more points than every other tournament including WGCs with the exception of the Players which is on a par but its the PGA Tour's flagship event and they decide the points. OK I should have been more precise with regards to Fed Ex Cup points. OWGR award 100 for a major but 80 for the Players.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > I said pretty much everyone and I accept some see it differently but they are in the minority. I'm a fan of the Players and its definitely a much more prestigious title than it was 35 years ago when I first started watching it but majors are still more prestigious. We could debate all day how marginal the difference is but this is the view held by the overwhelming majority of people involved in golf or who follow golf.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Overwhelming majority? Again, just utterly baseless speculation on your part. I would guess the percentage of golf fans that hold either the Players or the PGA of greater interest than the other is about even. But that is anecdotal speculation by me. Which is no less valid than your guessing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thats not what I said though, I said majors and I accept that the PGA is likely fourth in the packing order so the difference between that specific major and the Players is a lot closer. It's not a science so technically it's all guessing but no way is it baseless speculation. As a starting point just look at all the writings on the game of golf , the history of the player of the year awards, golf hall of fame, the players with the best endorsements etc. there is significant evidence to backup my claims. If you can make a case that it's not the consensus that would be interesting.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > We are talking about the PGA specifically, not all the majors. Brooks won the PGA this year, none of the other majors. The other majors are more prestigious but not because they are called "majors". The U.S. Open is our national championship and, usually, is played on historic courses with different, tougher set-ups than regular Tour events. The Open (British), is another national championship with historical courses far different in style than played on the tours. The Masters is the most popular tournament in golf, by far, with all its unique features. The PGA Championship is a glorified Tour event run by the PGA.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This has to be trolling.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can't be serious.

> > > >

> > > > Your assessment on the majors is debatable but you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I can see where you are coming from even if I don't entirely agree. But with the last sentence it fell apart. If you don't like the PGA, thats fine, but to state "The PGA Championship is a glorified Tour event run by the PGA" is an ignorant claim.

> > >

> > > It's a more well-thought out view than the baseless speculation you have been spewing out here. Explain how it stands out from any top PGA Tour event.

> >

> > The arrogance and hubris is laughable. I was being kind some of the claims in your statement are nonsense and to use the phrase you must have recently learned, it was "baseless speculation".

>

> Explain how it stands out from any top PGA Tour event.

 

This has been mentioned.

 

OWGR, ET, World Golf Hall Of Fame, golf historians, golf writers, the history of the players awards etc. even the PGA Tour with the exception of Players (we know they have a built-in bias trying to evaluate the status of that event) all place or indicate there is more value on the PGA than any other PGA Tour event.

 

It's definitively the case that all these organisations see the PGA as superior and the major status is a big part of it but one din't come before the other, you can't just dismiss the major status because you don't like it. Of course you are free to disagree with it and might think there are better tournaments.

 

To dismiss it as baseless speculation is wrong though as there are clearly superior real benefits from a PGA win as opposed to any other PGA Tour win.

[LICC]

> @OldTomMorris said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @jmvargas said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been playing golf for 61 years and have always felt and believed that winning Majors was the epitome of a golfers career..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > even today the atmosphere and anticipation for the majors is unlike any of the other tournaments including that of the so-called 5th major..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > these wannabe events--ie--the Players. Tour Championship, Fedex Cup etc...--have only MONEY as their main attraction ..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > imho they still do not and will never command the respect nor recognition given to the 4 Majors and hope it remains that way..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but that's just me..

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The atmosphere and anticipation of the PGA is no more than for the Players. As it should be. You can’t explain why you think the PGA is more significant other than the media calls it a major.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is simply wrong to suggest its only the media calling it a major. Everyone in golf recognises these 4 tournaments are a notch above the rest. They carry more prestige with players, sponsors, the other tours etc. plus they are recognised as more important with OWGR points, FedEx Cup points etc.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd actually suggest its mostly the PGA Tour and their media partners that tell us that the Players is the equal of say the PGA, which it's not if you ask the overwhelming majority of people who take an interest in golf.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just baselessly speculating. The PGA Championship does not confer more FedEx points than the Players. It is the same. Golf fans I know don’t consider the PGA more prestigious than the Players.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not baseless nor is it speculation. PGA Tour decides Fed Ex Cup points hence they elevate the Players onto the same level but pretty much everyone else sees it differently except you and your friends.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > You made the incorrect statement about FedEx points. I corrected you. Your statement that everyone in golf places the PGA above the Players is baseless speculation. As i is your comment that everyone sees it differently than me. Just look above in this thread for others that have the same view as me.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > The majors do carry more points than every other tournament including WGCs with the exception of the Players which is on a par but its the PGA Tour's flagship event and they decide the points. OK I should have been more precise with regards to Fed Ex Cup points. OWGR award 100 for a major but 80 for the Players.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > I said pretty much everyone and I accept some see it differently but they are in the minority. I'm a fan of the Players and its definitely a much more prestigious title than it was 35 years ago when I first started watching it but majors are still more prestigious. We could debate all day how marginal the difference is but this is the view held by the overwhelming majority of people involved in golf or who follow golf.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Overwhelming majority? Again, just utterly baseless speculation on your part. I would guess the percentage of golf fans that hold either the Players or the PGA of greater interest than the other is about even. But that is anecdotal speculation by me. Which is no less valid than your guessing.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Thats not what I said though, I said majors and I accept that the PGA is likely fourth in the packing order so the difference between that specific major and the Players is a lot closer. It's not a science so technically it's all guessing but no way is it baseless speculation. As a starting point just look at all the writings on the game of golf , the history of the player of the year awards, golf hall of fame, the players with the best endorsements etc. there is significant evidence to backup my claims. If you can make a case that it's not the consensus that would be interesting.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > We are talking about the PGA specifically, not all the majors. Brooks won the PGA this year, none of the other majors. The other majors are more prestigious but not because they are called "majors". The U.S. Open is our national championship and, usually, is played on historic courses with different, tougher set-ups than regular Tour events. The Open (British), is another national championship with historical courses far different in style than played on the tours. The Masters is the most popular tournament in golf, by far, with all its unique features. The PGA Championship is a glorified Tour event run by the PGA.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This has to be trolling.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can't be serious.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your assessment on the majors is debatable but you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and I can see where you are coming from even if I don't entirely agree. But with the last sentence it fell apart. If you don't like the PGA, thats fine, but to state "The PGA Championship is a glorified Tour event run by the PGA" is an ignorant claim.

> > > >

> > > > It's a more well-thought out view than the baseless speculation you have been spewing out here. Explain how it stands out from any top PGA Tour event.

> > >

> > > The arrogance and hubris is laughable. I was being kind some of the claims in your statement are nonsense and to use the phrase you must have recently learned, it was "baseless speculation".

> >

> > Explain how it stands out from any top PGA Tour event.

>

> This has been mentioned.

>

> OWGR, ET, World Golf Hall Of Fame, golf historians, golf writers, the history of the players awards etc. even the PGA Tour with the exception of Players (we know they have a built-in bias trying to evaluate the status of that event) all place or indicate there is more value on the PGA than any other PGA Tour event.

>

> It's definitively the case that all these organisations see the PGA as superior and the major status is a big part of it but one din't come before the other, you can't just dismiss the major status because you don't like it. Of course you are free to disagree with it and might think there are better tournaments.

>

> To dismiss it as baseless speculation is wrong though as there are clearly superior real benefits from a PGA win as opposed to any other PGA Tour win.

 

The reason why it originally had major status is gone. It's been gone for 50 years.

 

None of what you just posted is any explanation for how the PGA stands out from any top PGA Tour event. The actual tournament. The playing of the tournament. Golf fans watching it aren't getting any more interested because the OWGR gives the winner 20 more points than the Players. And you are incorrect about all those others placing more value on the PGA over the Players. It gets debated all the time- is the Players the 5th major, is the PGA an also-ran, etc.

 

I'll just note that you have no explanation for how the PGA Championship stands out from any top PGA Tour event.

[Rory4Pres]

LLIC, I pulled together a list of my favorite responses to you in your 12 page thread badgering the PGA Championship:

1) You’re free to not consider the PGA a major.

Or to replace it with the Players in your mind.

2) They need to bring back the dislike button.

3) I don't know. Why does it rain sometimes? This thread is in the running for dumbest thread of the year.

4) These threads are a lot like dogs. They're the victim of their owner (you).

5) That still does nothing to marginalize the greatness of the PGA Championship which has been your goal all along.

6) Nobody else is wondering this.

7) That is a ridiculous thing to say, given all the evidence to the contrary.

8) I agree to disagree.

9) The fact is that a very serious golf community like WRX is a good measure of the lack of interest --- but of course when you don't like the sentiment of WRX members then you feel the need to marginalize the community. --- Awesome!

10) The most defining thing about this thread is that it has lasted much longer than I thought it would. Has anything been agreed upon other than one guy here thinks the PGA shouldn't be a major for some reason?