Reshafting Maltby PTMS.

[propman]

Presently have these clubs with Maltby MPF Pro Series shafts in stiff flex. Thinking seriously of going to steel shafts and getting pullouts. Issue I have is how to tell what length I should be looking for to have a finished length for a five iron at 38 inches.

 

The ptm heads have a universal hosel which accept either a .370 parallel or a taper tip shaft.

 

As an alternative, I have a set of Adams cb3 irons and wondering if I had the shafts pulled from them and inserted same in the PTMS, would they play at same length ?

 

As you can probably gather, I'm not a cluib builder. Any help here would be appreciated.

[Sparky14]

Didn't like the MPFs? I was thinking about trying them, but I already have a box full of graphite iron shafts.

 

If you are getting parallel steel, then it would be the same length as the MPFs. If the steel is taper tip, the taper is about 1/2" to 5/8", so look for taper steel shafts that much longer.

 

I have some old PDF sheet that says the Idea Black CB3 irons were a 370 parallel hosel. I don't know the distance from the ground to the bottom of the hosel for the PTMs or CB3 - you'd need that to know if they would be a different length. My guess is that they would be within 1/4", so I'd give that a shot.

[propman]

Sparky, Thanks for the response. After years and years of playing steel shafts, I took a flyer on these MPFs. Obviously not familiar with other graphite shafts but the MPFs (in stiff) may be too stiff and / or too light for this old man. In steel, I prefer shaft weights ranging from 105 to 115 and always in r flex. I thought I could go stiff in the MPFs as they are much lighter. Live and learn I guess.

 

I wish bottom of the hosel measurements were all standard or the club mfgs. would list them in the specs.

 

I'm debating to either reshaft these PTMS or sell them as is (they are real good shape) and just get a new set of PTMs (with steel) from GWs.

[Gdashoff]

The awesome thing about Golfworks is they tell you everything on their spec sheet. The bore depth is 1.25" for the 6 iron. I doubt that changes iron to iron but you could also email them and ask. It might change slightly if going from parallel to taper but I think taper tip seating is pretty shallow.

[Tommyj]

For Golfworks irons you subtract the bore depth from the hosel length, then subtract that number from your desired club length to get your shaft length. So for the PTMs that would be 2.187(hosel length) minus 1.250(bore depth = 0.937. For a 38" 5-iron your trimmed shaft length would be 38 minus 0.937 = 37.063" - but that will give you 38" without a grip. If you want 38" with grip then subtract another 1/8" from the trimmed shaft length, getting you to 36.938". That's for a parallel tip shaft, a .355" tip will insert 1-2mm deeper in the hosel so you would have to very slightly increase the shaft length by that amount. The calculations are to a level of precision you could never achieve when actually cutting a shaft, so if you aim for 37" you'll be fine.

 

Golfworks iron heads are not all the same. For example with the TS-2 hosel minus bore is 0.745 and for the MMB-17 it is 0.712. I don't understand why Golfworks haven't built the iron heads to a common spec.

 

Regarding your CB3's, I've found that most OEMs have hosel length minus bore depth of around 1.25", except for some Pings I've done which are around 1.00". There's a good chance your CB3's are 1.25", meaning that if you insert those shafts into your PTMs they will be about 0.3" (1.25 minus 0.937) shorter than your CB3's.

 

Not sure what @Sparky14 was referring to with tapers having to be 1/2" to 5/8" longer - they only need to be 1-2mm (1/16") longer.

[propman]

Tommyj,

 

My brain is spinning. If I understand it, if the Adams cb3 5 iron is playing at 38 inches and I switch the shaft to the ptm, the PTM plays at 37.7 (38 minus .3) ?

 

I have my eye on some nippon pro modus 105 (taper tip). They were pulled from Mizzy HM 919 and the 5 iron shaft (with a grip) is 38 inches. Probably looking at the same scenario as far as length given the cb3 scenario.

 

I really appreciate your help here. Learning alot.

 

Thanks

[Fellaheen51]

@propman. Choose the shafts of choice. Install. Add extensions if need be. Butt trim to preferred playing length. Add grip. Issue solved.

 

And a FWIW. Been experiencing the same issue with LW graphite shafts installed in TS-1's. Even though I thought I had performed my due diligence. Quite erratic with dispersion, not feeling any "heft" while swinging the club. And a propensity towards snap hooking if I swung to aggressively. Seriously contemplating returning to LW steel (~ 100g) for next season. Have Nippon 950's in another set that I've been playing lately. And the contrast in overall club weight and improved directional control was very noticeable.

[Tommyj]

> @propman said:

> Tommyj,

>

> My brain is spinning. If I understand it, if the Adams cb3 5 iron is playing at 38 inches and I switch the shaft to the ptm, the PTM plays at 37.7 (38 minus .3) ?

>

> I have my eye on some nippon pro modus 105 (taper tip). They were pulled from Mizzy HM 919 and the 5 iron shaft (with a grip) is 38 inches. Probably looking at the same scenario as far as length given the cb3 scenario.

>

> I really appreciate your help here. Learning alot.

>

> Thanks

 

I'm don't usually get this technical, but a couple of months ago I had a set of standard length pulls from a set of P790's that I wanted to put into Maltby TS-2 heads and I came up almost 1/2" short of standard length. Up until that point I had just assumed that all iron heads had hosel length minus bore insert of 1.25".

 

You are correct that the CB3 shaft put into the PTM will play at 37.7" (if the CB3 is 1.25" like most clubs, you'll only know when you pull the shaft). For the HM919 pulls, I think you probably meant that the 5 iron shaft (with grip) is 37" (not 38") if it is from a standard length set. If the length is 37" then your club length in the PTM would be 37" plus 0.937", so close enough to your desired 38" length.

 

I just soft stepped the P790 shafts that I was putting into my TS-2's and got the length I was looking for.

 

One more thing to mention, when you pull the MPF shafts on the PTMs, its a bit of a chore to get the old epoxy out of that small 1-2 mm recession at the bottom of the hosel which is meant to pinch and centre the taper tip. You need to get it properly cleaned out to seat the shaft in there.

[Nessism]

Soft stepping the shafts 1X solves the length problem. Most people can't feel the change in stiffness effect of SS 1X anyway. You just need to make sure you have the proper set of pulls. Buy 3-pw pulls for your 4-pw irons for example. And it goes without saying that playing length and swingweight will need to be measured and managed during the build.

[propman]

> @Tommyj said:

> > @propman said:

> > Tommyj,

> >

> > My brain is spinning. If I understand it, if the Adams cb3 5 iron is playing at 38 inches and I switch the shaft to the ptm, the PTM plays at 37.7 (38 minus .3) ?

> >

> > I have my eye on some nippon pro modus 105 (taper tip). They were pulled from Mizzy HM 919 and the 5 iron shaft (with a grip) is 38 inches. Probably looking at the same scenario as far as length given the cb3 scenario.

> >

> > I really appreciate your help here. Learning alot.

> >

> > Thanks

>

> I'm don't usually get this technical, but a couple of months ago I had a set of standard length pulls from a set of P790's that I wanted to put into Maltby TS-2 heads and I came up almost 1/2" short of standard length. Up until that point I had just assumed that all iron heads had hosel length minus bore insert of 1.25".

>

> You are correct that the CB3 shaft put into the PTM will play at 37.7" (if the CB3 is 1.25" like most clubs, you'll only know when you pull the shaft). For the HM919 pulls, I think you probably meant that the 5 iron shaft (with grip) is 37" (not 38") if it is from a standard length set. If the length is 37" then your club length in the PTM would be 37" plus 0.937", so close enough to your desired 38" length.

>

> I just soft stepped the P790 shafts that I was putting into my TS-2's and got the length I was looking for.

>

> One more thing to mention, when you pull the MPF shafts on the PTMs, its a bit of a chore to get the old epoxy out of that small 1-2 mm recession at the bottom of the hosel which is meant to pinch and centre the taper tip. You need to get it properly cleaned out to seat the shaft in there.

 

Yes, my mistake, the nippon 5 iron pullout measures 37 inches (with a grip). Guess I am still confused why this pullout would result in 38 inch playing length in a ptm while the shaft in my cb3 would be .3 short of 38. The standard HM 5 iron plays at 38 inches, Does the Mizuno HM have a hosel length minus bore insert of 1.25" like the Adams cb3?

[Tommyj]

> @propman said:

> > @Tommyj said:

> > > @propman said:

> > > Tommyj,

> > >

> > > My brain is spinning. If I understand it, if the Adams cb3 5 iron is playing at 38 inches and I switch the shaft to the ptm, the PTM plays at 37.7 (38 minus .3) ?

> > >

> > > I have my eye on some nippon pro modus 105 (taper tip). They were pulled from Mizzy HM 919 and the 5 iron shaft (with a grip) is 38 inches. Probably looking at the same scenario as far as length given the cb3 scenario.

> > >

> > > I really appreciate your help here. Learning alot.

> > >

> > > Thanks

> >

> > I'm don't usually get this technical, but a couple of months ago I had a set of standard length pulls from a set of P790's that I wanted to put into Maltby TS-2 heads and I came up almost 1/2" short of standard length. Up until that point I had just assumed that all iron heads had hosel length minus bore insert of 1.25".

> >

> > You are correct that the CB3 shaft put into the PTM will play at 37.7" (if the CB3 is 1.25" like most clubs, you'll only know when you pull the shaft). For the HM919 pulls, I think you probably meant that the 5 iron shaft (with grip) is 37" (not 38") if it is from a standard length set. If the length is 37" then your club length in the PTM would be 37" plus 0.937", so close enough to your desired 38" length.

> >

> > I just soft stepped the P790 shafts that I was putting into my TS-2's and got the length I was looking for.

> >

> > One more thing to mention, when you pull the MPF shafts on the PTMs, its a bit of a chore to get the old epoxy out of that small 1-2 mm recession at the bottom of the hosel which is meant to pinch and centre the taper tip. You need to get it properly cleaned out to seat the shaft in there.

>

> Yes, my mistake, the nippon 5 iron pullout measures 37 inches (with a grip). Guess I am still confused why this pullout would result in 38 inch playing length in a ptm while the shaft in my cb3 would be .3 short of 38. The standard HM 5 iron plays at 38 inches, Does the Mizuno HM have a hosel length minus bore insert of 1.25" like the Adams cb3?

 

Working backwards, if the HM 5 plays at 38" and the shaft (with grip) measures 37", then for the HM the hosel minus bore must be 1.00". But you don't really care what the hosel minus bore is on the HM because you have a measurement for the pulled shaft. With your CB3 I'm just assuming that it will have the more standard hosel minus bore of 1.25", you won't know until you pull the shaft.

 

Forget about the whole hosel minus bore calculation, I know its confusing at first. For the PTM, all you need to know is that whatever length shaft you have, you add 0.937" to the length to get your finished club length.

[propman]

So at the end of the day, the 5 iron nippon shaft (which measures 37 inches with a grip) might very well play at 37.7 with the ptm head? This is confusing to a newbie like me.

[Nessism]

> @propman said:

> So at the end of the day, the nippon shaft (which measures 38 inches with a grip) might very well play at 37.7 with the ptm head? This is confusing to a newbie like me.

 

The Golfworks website says the bore depth is 1.25" and the hosel length is 2.187". That means the bottom of bore to ground is about .937" and with a 38" shaft your club will measure 38.937" to the end of the grip cap.

[Tommyj]

> @propman said:

> So at the end of the day, the 5 iron nippon shaft (which measures 37 inches with a grip) might very well play at 37.7 with the ptm head? This is confusing to a newbie like me.

 

Your 37" shaft with grip will play to 37.937" in the PTM - forget everything else you have read here.

[Nessism]

A lot of the confusion in this discussion comes from the fact that different manufacturers use a different bottom of bore to ground measurement (BBGM). Club length = shaft length + BBGM. It's particularly confusing that Golfworks doesn't list BBGM for the various heads they sell. It seems that in this example we have to calculate it ourselves, which turns out to be .937". Mizuno is pretty good about keeping BB consistent across their product line at 1.25", but other manufacturers like Ping have different BBGM for each individual model (although consistent within each model.) All good fun and getting length right is part of what separates a club builder from a club gluer.

 

 

[propman]

Tommyj, Nessism

 

I think I finally got it. The pic is great. Thanks alot.

[Tommyj]

@propman - any idea what the swing weight is on your PTM's with the MPF shafts? Just asking because I was thinking of trying those in my TS-2's but Golfworks told me they would come in at around C7 at standard length. Just asking, because if your PTM's with the MPF shaft are in that range, you could try taking one iron and weighting it up to about D2 which could change the way you feel about them. I'm sort of curious for myself as well - I'm exactly like you in that I like steel shafts around 110g which are on the firm side of R flex. Been thinking more and more about trying graphite, but it would have to be at least something in the 85g+ range with higher SW to balance out the light shaft.

[propman]

Tommyj,

 

Sorry, I don't know the swing weight. Besides being light, I wondering if the flex (s) is too much for my 80ish iron ss. These shafts are stout. I would imagine you are thinking about me adding lead tape to increase the SW up.

 

At this juncture, I"m in limbo. I do like the ptm heads and can't help but think the right shafts are the ticket. One the other hand, I could be going down the proverbial rabbit hole.

 

Maybe I should just stick with my Maltby TEs. Decisions, decisions!