Tommy Fleetwood straight arm drill

[Krt22]

That is absolutely entirely possible. The ultimate goal of the drill is to get the arms and body in sync, depending on the golfer and their tendencies, one may need to feel all body and let the arms react accordingly while the other may need to feel all arms and let the body support that motion. Getting so wound up in semantics is a complete waste of time, look at what the desired outcome is.

[hoselpalooza]

perhaps, though i don't think tommy ever mentioned getting the arms and body in sync, and it's possible the people in this thread have different ideas about what that means. for example, what if tommy uses the drill to promote better disassociation/separation between the upper and lower half of his body? or to focus on clearing out his lower half better to start the downswing? both of those (and possibly more) could be valid reasons to do the drill this way.
i've used tommy's drill for months and it's been very helpful for me. focusing on using the body -- particularly the core, lower half and feet -- has been key to developing a better and more consistent swing, including better control over angle of attack. focusing on swinging the arms as fast as possible would likely cause me to get too quick, too steep, and possibly too over the top, causing jerky pulls, hooks, and tops.
to anyone who thinks it's not possible to have the arms lag behind a la tommy's drill, i encourage you to actually try it for yourself. even though it's a 1/2-3/4 swing it reminds me a lot of disassociating/separating the lower from the upper half at the top of the backswing. just start the movement with the body, let the arms drop/fall, and use the body's rotation to bring the club through. it is a really weird and cool feeling when the arms lag behind and you still make good contact. the ball doesn't go as far because the arms are moving slowly, but that's kind of the point -- it's a sequence drill, not a speed drill. speed can be added once the sequence is consistently good, just like working on many other swing changes. and you don't have to use a 7-iron. SW or any other wedge for shorter distances works perfectly fine imho.
edit to add: @Krt22, in this case i really do think it makes sense to discuss the semantics. iteach's drill literally says to swing the arms as fast as possible, which is basically polar opposite from the purpose of tommy's drill. ignoring this crucial detail to "look at what the desired outcome is" completely defeats the purpose of the drill. they are very, very different drills if you take a step back to understand how to execute them regardless of how similar they might appear on the surface.

[glk]

From the OP Instagram post:alimortazombie@golfbettertucson there’s an older video on YouTube called something like fixing slices and hooks on the range with Tommy Fleetwood. He’s demonstrating the exact drill from this video in more detail.

this is the video I posted.

and on golfinsiderUK the Instagram posted by hosel where Fleetwood is doing the 3/4 swing with power package is called his drill .

In both of those videos his right arm has flexed though less in the full video versus the instagram So again where is Tommy’s straight arm drill video?

a golfer talking about their feels is a flawed way to describe a drill Multiple golfers can do the same or pretty similar motion and yet describe different feels Heck I do the same drill and it feel different from day to day. All we have is he says it is a straight arm drill but we have no video of him doing a drill with straight arms - and martin chuck used to feel his right arm stayed straight throughout his whole backswing and expressed surprise when he saw it flexed (he talked about this in one of his many videos).

 

 

[Hilts1969]

Agree one might need the Fleetwood drill as he describes it and one might need the iteach drill as he describes it.

[Krt22]

You should watch that clip again. He clearly says he'd get too his left side too quickly and have to stall, otherwise it would go left, that in itself is a very common fault where the lower body gets ahead of the arms and has to stall and/or he might have had too much lateral slide and this thought/feel helps him pivot/rotate better. He said verbatim "basically it was all body and all connection", ie getting his arms in sync with his pivot

[glk]

the planemate day 2 protocol pretty much ends with the straight arm drill. Same goal of synching arms and body.

this drill has been around for who knows how long. To think anyone has brought some new, unique things to it that only they do boogies my mind.

there is a straight arm drill not an Fleetwood, iteach, . . . straight arm drill and it will feel different based on who is doing it and what their current swing issue

they are having and that they are looking to improve.

 

[iteachgolf]

Mabe reading comprehension is the issue then. Again I never said you speed them up on the downswing. The whole point of the drill is they never get out of sync to begin with and therefore don’t need to actively do anything other than stay wide in the drill

[iteachgolf]

Again don’t put words in my mouth. Trust me you don’t not want to argue.

 

I never said they were the same either, the feels and intents are different. So why would I be justifying something I never said or even implied. Quite making crap up and stick to what I actually wrote. If both arms are straight they can’t be lagging behind. The are literally in front of you as it’s the only anatomical position the can be in.

[hoselpalooza]

thanks for pointing this out. i only watched the instagram clip where he provides a description of the drill and demos a 1/2-3/4 swing (presumably) doing the drill with the power package. i can't watch the other clip right now but does he also specifically mention the drill? or does he mention the "connection" in another context?
@glk, firstly, i appreciate you sticking around. i know we've probably said some things in the heat of the moment we wouldn't ordinarily say, and i'm glad to try and continue a productive discussion with you.
back to the topic: even if the tommy and iteach drills look the same/similar -- or if we should just refer to them both as the straight arm drill -- i think it's important that we're able to distinguish between the different "hows" or variations, if that makes sense. for example, why one person or another might want to focus on executing the drill differently -- e.g. fast arms like iteach or passive arms like tommy -- should be a part of the discussion and is more helpful imho than pointing out the similarities.
you mention the drill will feel different based on who is doing it and what are their current swing issues -- which i completely agree with -- but you're still ignoring how important the feel component can be. purposely swinging the arms very fast versus trying to get them to drag behind completely changes the drill. it's like pausing at the top of your normal backswing and focusing on making the first move down by swinging the arms as fast as possible instead of making the first move with the lower body -- can you see how that could make it difficult for some people to get good disassociation/separation?
here's a personal analogy/anecdote: one of my nagging swing issues has been getting too quick with the arms from the top. i've gotten much better about this, but when i want to step on one i still sometimes have the tendency to apply speed with my arms too soon in the backswing. this causes me to get too steep, among other things. one fix i'm working on is to keep the arms passive for longer so when i apply speed with the arms it's too late to get steep, if that makes sense. the only way i've been able to reliably/consistently accomplish this is by using my body more and keeping my arms passive -- literally slowing down my swing so my arms don't take over too soon. tommy's drill helped me with this. iteach's drill would have been disastrous for me.
so even if you want to insist we call the drills by the same exact name, i hope you understand it's important we acknowledge there are differences in how to execute the drill that can have a big impact on whether or not people benefit from the drill.

[hoselpalooza]

dude, while it's true you never exactly said "you speed them up on the downswing" you did said this, which is pretty darned similar: "The goal here is to swing the arms ... as fast as possible."

and look, tough guy, other people in this thread were insisting the drills are the same. why don't you calm down and take a time out? part of the allure -- heck, the purpose -- of this forum is to discuss and debate the golf swing. if you don't want people to argue with you why don't you just go do a blog on your own website and lock the comments section?

If both arms are straight they can’t be lagging behind. The are literally in front of you as it’s the only anatomical position the can be in.ok, let's think about this in the context of tommy's comment, which i believe is the argument here:

I want my body rotation to stay ahead of my hands and club, as if they are being dragged....what does tommy mean by this? what are the subtle differences between swinging the arms as fast as possible and keeping them passive? how would either of these influence the swing? why would someone want to perform the drill one way or the other?

[iteachgolf]

I love arguing.

 

Andno what hat I said is not similar. I can post anything without context. Yes you want the arms moving as fast as possible because it will make you TURN FASTER. If both arms are straight, when you move your arms your body turns. It’s literally impossible not to. So by moving arms as fast as you can you turn as fast as you can and swing the club as fast as you can

 

Just like I don’t be like people putting words in my mouth I’m not going to put words in Tommy’s.

[Hilts1969]

If we are talking about reading comprehension try this. I never said you thought they were the same. I was talking to someone else who said they were. Tut tut glass houses old bean.

I don't want to argue with you? Wow haha

Let's try another reading comprehension I said if people did the Fleetwood drill and tried to lag the arms it could lead to problems ie not doing the drill correctly.

I actually think your description of your drill is better than Fleetwood in its desciption(especially the description off the arms all fast like:-) )

Shame your lack of reading comprehension lead you to believe I was being negative to your teaching.

Any bad typing on this is due to the lag on this site and not my shaking with fear at your very scary don't argue with me warning.

All the best now.

[hoselpalooza]

great. and now it should be abundantly clear to everyone in this thread that what you describe is completely different from what tommy describes. your drill aims to get the arms moving as fast as possible and tommy literally says he wants them to be passive, as if they are being dragged -- i.e. NOT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. even though these two drills may look similar the way they are performed is clearly intended to address different things. case closed.

now can we move on, everybody? ??

[glk]

given only Fleetwood words and not seeing him actually do the drill he speaks of I’m not sure what he is doing. I even saiid that from the video I posted they certainly look to be the same cause when doing the drill iteach describes and hitting ballls the right arm will fold a bit - and in those hip high swings in Fleetwood video his right arm does fold a bit. But iteach wants you to do the drill at speed without a ball before hitting one. I’ve been asking for Fleetwood video where it is clear he is doing his drill and until the we see sucH then we are all speculating on what he means by straight arm drill - just his word description leave a lot to the imagination. For instance what does he mean by windmill cause that to my knowledge is a completely different drill. I think we have a bunch of blind people describing an elephant.

[Hilts1969]

you have the same problem as me mate

[hoselpalooza]

how have you been working on it? or what's been effective with fixing it?

[Hilts1969]

I didn’t put words in anyone’s mouth I just quoted them pretty much word for word. Comprehension again eh?

[Hilts1969]

I can't overcome it with any speed. If I use my pivot my hands work too far out and I have to dump it. If I use my arms it gets steep and I dump it. Drives me mad

[iteachgolf]

How can you not understand this? The goal of the drill is to get everything moving faster. The arms are moving in sync with the pivot.

[iteachgolf]

Actually you did.

 

You said I’m trying to justify that they are the same. Why would I have to justify them being the same if I didn’t believe they are the same.

 

The reat of that hat has nothing to do which any of my post.

[Hilts1969]

Let me het this straight I say to another poster I don't think the two drills are the same. You pop up having a bit of a moan and now you concede they are not the same.

What I wrote about your drill which I like I quoted directly from you on the OP from the thread on your drill. I have also seen your comments on speeding up the arms on various threads and setting the wrists.

 

So to clarify my impression is

They are not the same drill

You like an early set of the club

You like to speed up the arms rather than them being passive

If I have this wrong please say so. I'm not sure why you piled in to be honest. Bad day?

 

[iteachgolf]

I didn’t concede anything. That’s the whole point. I never said they were the same.

 

And no it’s not speeding up the arms. It’s moving everything faster. The arms being straight syncs them up so moving one moves the other. The focus is simply the arms as humans do better awareness wise with more external focus like the arms.

 

I only came in because you keep misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I said.

[Hilts1969]

Okay Mr pedant let's see if one can admit a mistake but first

Until the last few posts you had yet to actually say you didn't think they were the same. You have bizarrely jumped on my post whom is someone who believes they are not the same but have not said anything to guy who was insistent that they were. Odd as he is misrepresenting your own drill.

Next you say it's not speeding up the arms it's moving everything faster. As everything includes the arms then sorry it is moving them faster.

Now let's see if you can ever accept a mistake or confusion on your part. I missed it first time but you had a pop saying i posted that you were trying to justify your comments.

Go back and read that post from me. I wasn't talking about you. I said that guy(the one claiming it was the same drill) it's there in black and white.

Every post about you I have used your name. I forgot his while writing the post. But if you read it it is very clear I was talking about him.

I await your reply with hopeful anticipation

[stingerfade]

Which is my point all along but obviously if you don’t agree with some people you’re a troll or a shill. And we’re the ignorant ones. OK LOL let’s just call it the “straight arm drill”..... ?

[iteachgolf]

If you can’t see how moving everything faster is different than just saying speeding up the arms I cant help you. It’s literally about getting everything moving together. So yes saying that’s it about speeding up just one part is completely different.

 

 

I was the one who said if arms are straight they won’t be lagging behind. Not anyone else. So because you were quoting me I’m gonna assume you were talking about me.

[hoselpalooza]

perhaps you should go back and reread my post, especially the key bit here:

your drill aims to get the arms moving as fast as possible and tommy literally says he wants them to be passive, as if they are being dragged -- i.e. NOT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.or could you elaborate about what i've misunderstood? and please specifically address the bit about keeping the arms passive and feeling like they are being dragged behind as it pertains to getting everything moving faster. because as far as i'm concerned passive, draggy arms are not supposed to be moving as fast as possible in tommy's drill. rather, they should be following the lead of the body.

[wagolfer7]

In the video the OP posted. It starts mid sentence where Tommy said he had to stop into his left side to prevent everything from going left. Then he talks about his core to move everything together. Also mentions how it's wasted energy after the ball.
I interpret it as, he is having an issue of his upper body getting ahead of his lower body.
Just like with amateurs, he is now probably looking for a slightly exaggerated feel to slow down the upper body. But as iteach and some others have been saying, it all moves together, in sync. Even Tommy is saying that. He wants his core to move as one.
An extreme would be a guy that swings with a lot of hands. Death grip on the club and pulls the handle to generate speed. I don't think Tommy was doing this. But he must of been firing his arms or shoulders separately from his lower body. That would make him have to have really good timing. Also why he feels that is wasted energy, since he's still firing after the ball.
Looks like the drill is your generic 9-3 drill. Focusing on having the chest (core) move as one. Keeping the arms together and straight as possible (although not 100%). Most good golfers I believe have mostly straight arms to waist high. Then the bend in the arm starts to increase as you go farther back.
Is it the exact same drill? I don't see why it matters at all. If anything it is very similar. But as others have pointed out, the emphasis or feel each player needs would differ on their faults. A person firing the lower body too soon, would probably be thinking quiet lower body as opposed to passive arms.
My opinion is that people take saying in golf too litetal. Passive arms, doesn't mean not using them or slowing them down. It's more sequential. Trying to synch it up with the lower body at the same time. Since his habit is to fire the arms first, his feel is to have passive arms. Let the core move both the upper body and lower body at the same time.
No good golfers in my opinion could be good with literal dead arms. It's a feel in my opinion.
Let's all try to be respectful. This forum is lucky to have guys like iteach, Monte, Jim etc contributing to this forum. It's also good to have the normal posters who also put a lot of time and thought into the swing.@hoselpalooza interesting, I didn't mean to tag you and now I can't delete the tag.

[hoselpalooza]

no worries, and thanks for your comments.

No good golfers in my opinion could be good with literal dead arms. It's a feel in my opinion.yes, this is exactly the point i've been trying to make -- it's a feel that he's focusing on during his drill.

and just because he wants his arms to be passive and feel like they are dragging behind during the drill doesn't mean he's trying to achieve this same feel in his regular swing. my understanding is it's an over-exaggeration that's meant to train his body to develop a different or better feel in some way. kind of like how some people will use freezer drills to stop at the top of their backswing, pause for a second or three, and then start the swing again so they can work on something in their sequence.

[glk]

No way. Lol. No voice of reason allowed. Though this thread pales in comparison to some of the threads like pre 2015ish some real beauties with a plethora of character who’ s handles shall not be mentioned and they’ve pretty much been banned . But there was gold in those threads if one was paying attention. And classics such as JonesScott, Arthur debolt, and this gem of a video

 

 

[Hilts1969]

Yeah couldn't admit you got it wrong about who I was talking about. Predictable.