is the Kirkland ball affecting my performance?

[HGLucky13]

I am around a 13 handicap, been golfing for 3 years now and constantly working on my skills to get better. I play at least once a week and practice 2-3 times a week. I have used the Kirkland V3 for about year now and have not had a complaint with them. I used to use the Callaway Supersoft, but changed because I thought they were too soft for my speed and wondered about losing distance. I am now starting to wonder if the spininess of the V3 is too much for my current driver swing speed? I average upper 260's carry and between mevo and a few times on a GC4 I seem to average around 2900-3100 rpms of spin with driver. The thing that makes we wonder is sometimes I get a beauty straight 300+ yard drive. Other times it is a sharp hook or slice and I get 240 yds. I know the majority of this is operator error, my skillset needs improving.  But I wonder if the ball was less spinny would that slice into the other fairway just be on the edge of the rough instead? Would a less spinny ball make a difference? Am I making it harder by sticking to this ball? Cost is not necessarily the biggest issue, though I would not want to spend $5/ball if there was no improvement. I am not losing as many balls as I used to, a year ago I was buying 2 dozen Supersofts a month. Now I am playing the same amount of rounds and a ball will last a round or 2. unless I slice it into the water/ out of bounds. What're the thoughts of you guys? Is it worth tryin to switch, or wait till get better? How much difference does the ball actually make?

[Pepperturbo]

I tested that ball and wasn't impressed, but my buddy loves it, and he's a 12/13 index.  His best club in the bag is Driver, straight most of the time, the rest of his clubs and golf judgment is ?????? 

 

If "spinny" means difficult to hit straight, not sure if that's the ball or the operator.  If you have a hiccup in the giddy up which leads to errant shots, it's operator error, not so much the ball.

[ShortGolfer]

If you were losing two dozen balls a month with Supersofts, wasn't that seriously affecting your score?

 

Edited May 14 by ShortGolfer

[Abh159]

The ball is not what's causing you to hit massive hooks or slices, especially at your skill level. Switching to something with less spin might make a few yards of difference laterally, but it's certainly not going to keep a ball from slicing/hooking onto another hole. 

 

The good news is it's a relatively inexpensive way to experiment. Buy a sleeve of 3-4 different types of balls you want to try and go play. You might find one that gives you results closer to what you are looking for.

[phizzy30]

Kirk's from gen 1 to 3 are all spinny.  I would do what @Abh159recommended and buy a few sleeves of various balls that spin less.  Preferably urethane balls.  My suggestions would be ProV1(x), Chrome Tour(X), B X, and TP5x.  You should be able find out relatively quickly which ball hits your optimal spin window for driver, yet gives you enough spin and height for irons with reasonable green side spin.  

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'd venture to say that no, the ball is not meaningfully affecting your performance. 

 

Which is to say that your swing is the main factor in what you're doing. As long as you're playing the same ball 100% and are used to its characteristics, if it's a few yards shorter or a few hundred RPM spinnier, that's not going to be the difference between being a 13 and suddenly dropping to single digit. Even if you assume you're losing a few yards on good strikes leading to 1 extra club on your average approach, we're probably talking the difference between a 13 and a 12.5. 

 

By all means experiment and change balls if you want. There are some excellent DTC options if you want to avoid premium ball prices. 

 

But I'd say your money saved on balls would be better spent on lessons and/or buckets of range balls to work on the swing. That's going to be what helps your performance. 

[HGLucky13]

Kinda what I thought. I realize the main problem is my skillset. I am putting in the effort and slowly improving in most aspects except for driver. I have taken alot of lessons over the last 2 years, lately just once a month or so. My irons and chipping is great for where I am, putting is ok and I get decent distance off the tee. But I just never know what version of my tee shot is going to show up. When it is on I shoot low 80's when it is off and I keep trying to force it, mid to upper 90's. It's a bit frustrating. I was just curious if the ball would make any appreciable difference. I'm gonna stay with the Kirkland as I have no real issues with it. Another lesson this weekend....

Edited May 15 by HGLucky13

[phizzy30]

Just now, HGLucky13 said:

Kinda what I thought. I realize the main problem is my skillset. I am putting in the effort and slowly improving in most aspects except for driver. I have taken alot of lessons over the last 2 years, lately just once a month or so. My irons and chipping is great for where I am, putting his ok and I get decent distance off the tee. But I just never know what version of my tee shot is going to show up. When it is on I shoot low 80's when it is off and I keep trying to force it, mid to upper 90's. It's a bit frustrating. I was just curious if the ball would make any appreciable difference. I'm gonna stay with the Kirkland as I have no real issues with it. Another lesson this weekend....

You're like me where you lose tons of strokes off the tee.  If my driver behaves, I know I'm gonna go low for the round.  If it doesn't, I better either identify the problem and try to fix it quickly or it's gonna be a long day.  My ace in the hole is my 3 metal however if the course is short enough. 

[HGLucky13]

Yeah I keep hoping it is gonna turn around. I went on a run for 2 months where my driver was awesome. 2 or 3 shots a round over 300 yds, most in the fairway. My center of dispersion was only 10 yds off center Shot an 81 and a bunch in the low 80's. Started to think about 70's...probably too much. Then something happened, not sure what but all of sudden I'm slicing into the next fairway on one shot, then duck hook left the next shot. My biggest problem is my brain. I keep trying to correct this when I am playing instead of putting it away and working on it later on the range.

[Kmagnuss]

If you can hit 300 yard drives on level ground the Kirkland is too spinny for you (in my opinion and robot testing opinions).  I bet you're losing 10-15 yards against a 'better' ball.  Any idea what your swing speed is?  I'm guessing 112'ish.

 

[HGLucky13]

14 minutes ago, Kmagnuss said:

If you can hit 300 yard drives on level ground the Kirkland is too spinny for you (in my opinion and robot testing opinions).  I bet you're losing 10-15 yards against a 'better' ball.  Any idea what your swing speed is?  I'm guessing 112'ish.

 

Yeah on the high end, some days as slow as 106-107. I have the little Mevo, but I don't use it often. Something just doesn't seem right about the numbers I get. I use a Garmin watch every round so I do see my overall distances of every shot on the course. If my driver is working good I rarely see a drive under 280, best I've had was 341, but I had wind assist. My main course is relatively flat.

But then those bad days I'm hitting 240-250 in the next fairway....

Edited May 14 by HGLucky13

[ahyiah]

doubt the kirkland ball is affecting performance that much but i will say it does feel harder than other balls ive tried

[wantacigar]

It's not the ball.  I game MaxFli Tour and Vice Pro for "serious" rounds.  I use the Kirkland V3 on a few courses that have water on most of the holes. Cheaper to lose a $1.15 ball over a $4-$5 ball.  I sometimes see a little distance loss on my low to mid irons because I tend to hit the ball high and spinny as it is.  I just adjust my yardage decision by about 5 yds and have not problems.  I actually like the ball.  I have same issue with driver.  I'm not a long hitter and only get 220-235 on my drives and when it goes awry on me I go to me 4W which gets me 210-225.  6500 yard courses are getting difficult for me but I can still score in the 80's by keeping the ball in play.  I always have 1 or 2 double dozen Ksigs in the stash..  

 

The trick to lessons after the initial bunch to get you going and playing is take  1 a month but go to the range and/or practice area and work on the skills once or twice a week to work on what you did with the Pro.  Generally the lesson is covering only one aspect of the game that is giving you trouble.  I'm really struggling out of bunkers so my next lesson will be in a bunker for the entire lesson and I will be going to the practice area of my local muni to spend 30-40 minutes in a bunker once or twice a week.  

I did that with chipping/putting and now my short game (other than bunkers 🤦‍♂️) is pretty good and what helps me score.  Getting up and down when it's hard to reach a green in regulation on a 400+ yard par 4 is important.  I'm playing to a 13-14 hcp. now which is much better than when I was younger and hit the ball 260+ LOL.  As a matter of fact I sometimes prefer the Kirkland in the short game BECAUSE of the higher spin.  It allows me to attack pins without worrying about rolling off the other side of the green.  

 

 

Play what you like and like what you play.  Get the ball out of your head.  There are too many swing thoughts there already. 

[phizzy30]

4 hours ago, wantacigar said:

It's not the ball.  I game MaxFli Tour and Vice Pro for "serious" rounds.  I use the Kirkland V3 on a few courses that have water on most of the holes. Cheaper to lose a $1.15 ball over a $4-$5 ball.  I sometimes see a little distance loss on my low to mid irons because I tend to hit the ball high and spinny as it is.  I just adjust my yardage decision by about 5 yds and have not problems.  I actually like the ball.  I have same issue with driver.  I'm not a long hitter and only get 220-235 on my drives and when it goes awry on me I go to me 4W which gets me 210-225.  6500 yard courses are getting difficult for me but I can still score in the 80's by keeping the ball in play.  I always have 1 or 2 double dozen Ksigs in the stash..  

 

The trick to lessons after the initial bunch to get you going and playing is take  1 a month but go to the range and/or practice area and work on the skills once or twice a week to work on what you did with the Pro.  Generally the lesson is covering only one aspect of the game that is giving you trouble.  I'm really struggling out of bunkers so my next lesson will be in a bunker for the entire lesson and I will be going to the practice area of my local muni to spend 30-40 minutes in a bunker once or twice a week.  

I did that with chipping/putting and now my short game (other than bunkers 🤦‍♂️) is pretty good and what helps me score.  Getting up and down when it's hard to reach a green in regulation on a 400+ yard par 4 is important.  I'm playing to a 13-14 hcp. now which is much better than when I was younger and hit the ball 260+ LOL.  As a matter of fact I sometimes prefer the Kirkland in the short game BECAUSE of the higher spin.  It allows me to attack pins without worrying about rolling off the other side of the green.  

 

 

Play what you like and like what you play.  Get the ball out of your head.  There are too many swing thoughts there already. 

Do you find the V3 shorter with driver because I sure do. V1 and V2 were notoriously high spin and I would see up to 20 yards loss.  V3 is better where it's 10-15 yards, but still, it's a bit disheartening. 

[wantacigar]

36 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Do you find the V3 shorter with driver because I sure do. V1 and V2 were notoriously high spin and I would see up to 20 yards loss.  V3 is better where it's 10-15 yards, but still, it's a bit disheartening. 

No.  My driver SS hovers 93-95.  I've had some of my longest drives with it.  I find it shortens up on my irons just a tad but not enough to go a club up unless I'm at the max range of that club. ie. 8 iron is 135-143ish.  At 140, depending on conditions I may try a knock down 7.  Favorable wind stay with the 8.  I carry 220-230 no wind with any ball.  I've tried them all.  I do like Vice Pro the best so far but on a casual round or on a course that eats balls I have no problem playing with the Ksig V3 with no negative impact on the way I play or score.  

That being said, it's not my league gamer because of the nagging doubts in the back of my mind I subconsciously go after it and over swing to my detriment at times when trying to compete.  That's not the balls fault tho. 

[HGLucky13]

I went out and bought a dozen ProV1's to play with and compare. Only one round so far. Biggest difference I see is short game. It doesn't stop as well as the Kirkland does chipping, rolls a bit more, but my putts do not seem to have the pop off of the putter that the Kirkland does. Seems to go shorter off the putter with the same stroke. Nothing drastic, but a noticable difference. I did make a putter change at the same times putting this ball into play so that might be playing into the putting difference. If I get around to it I'll putt with my old putter also to verify. Once I burn through these balls I might try the ProV1x

[Nessism]

My current ball stash has me mixing and matching Kirkland V3, Srixon Z Star (2 or 3 different versions), Wilson Duo Urethane, and Bridgestone BX-RX (or something to that effect).  I can feel the difference between some of these, but my score doesn't vary enough to notice.   I keep my radar up for sales on urethane balls that cost $25/dozen or less.  Then I stock up.  Regarding the Kirkland, I like them just fine.  I might back up a wedge or short iron some, but it's not like I'm zipping balls off greens because they spin too much with my swing.  And I'm the sort of guy that can put some good stop power on a wedge shot when I want to.  

[bluedot]

18 hours ago, HGLucky13 said:

I went out and bought a dozen ProV1's to play with and compare. Only one round so far. Biggest difference I see is short game. It doesn't stop as well as the Kirkland does chipping, rolls a bit more, but my putts do not seem to have the pop off of the putter that the Kirkland does. Seems to go shorter off the putter with the same stroke. Nothing drastic, but a noticable difference. I did make a putter change at the same times putting this ball into play so that might be playing into the putting difference. If I get around to it I'll putt with my old putter also to verify. Once I burn through these balls I might try the ProV1x

This is exactly why most experts advise choosing a ball starting from the green and working backwards, and to play the same ball ALL THE TIME.  

 

Distance differences off the tee aren’t especially significant anymore, but that not true around the green, and especially off the putter.  Dave Pelz showed years ago that the differences in rollout on a putt with different balls are significant.  And if you don’t like the way a ball sounds/feels/rolls off the putter, well…

[HGLucky13]

After another round and a practice session I am not seeing a significant difference between the Kirkland and the ProV1. Except I prefer chipping/putting with the Kirkland. I guess cause I am used to the spin around the green of the V3. If i would have started with ProV1's i would bet i would feel the opposite. The difference in distance/control off the tee is not detectable. My skillset seems to be the determining factor on fairways hit, not the ball. At least so far. I see no real reason for me to spend $4.50/ball when the $1 ball is just as good. 

[NRJyzr]

On 5/15/2024 at 10:55 AM, phizzy30 said:

Do you find the V3 shorter with driver because I sure do. V1 and V2 were notoriously high spin and I would see up to 20 yards loss.  V3 is better where it's 10-15 yards, but still, it's a bit disheartening. 

 

When the 3pc v2 was in its early days, I had the same issue.  At that time, I still fit in the higher trajectory / higher spin player profile and the higher spin of the v2 killed me on every club.

 

Your speed is higher than mine was in those days, so it doesn't surprise me you could get these results with the v3.

 

[snagy2000]

It's not the ball, keep practicing and getting...

 

[JohnnyO3478]

Inconsistent results from one of most Inconsistently built balls ever, you say? Hmmmm .....

 

I'm still kind of baffled why so many folks pay little heed to Ball Lab reports.

[wantacigar]

On 5/27/2024 at 5:44 AM, JohnnyO3478 said:

Inconsistent results from one of most Inconsistently built balls ever, you say? Hmmmm .....

 

I'm still kind of baffled why so many folks pay little heed to Ball Lab reports.

Because my results don't corroborate what they claim.   

[JohnnyO3478]

Just now, wantacigar said:

Because my results don't corroborate what they claim.   

How would oneknow for certain?  Especially in the case of a ball that has performed so poorly in the testing?

[wantacigar]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyO3478 said:

How would oneknow for certain?  Especially in the case of a ball that has performed so poorly in the testing?

I don't know.  I just know the performance I get out of it.  There are 2 courses that I play that I use the Ksig exclusively.  They both have water in play on 15 of the 18 holes.  6300 yards.  These courses eat balls for breakfast, lunch and dinner.  At $1.00 a ball I don't get upset when there's a splash at the end of my swing. (At least from losing the ball perspective LOL).  I still score on these courses what I score with my regular gamers (Vice Pro / Maxfli Tour).  I've gone a round with losing only 1 ball and a round that I've lost 5-6 so I play the Ksigs.  The ball generally lands in the same areas, hold the greens.  Slices and tops are attributed to user error.  I'm a 14-16 hcp and don't notice any performance differences and I'm not consistent enough to notice minor deviations in distance or dispersion (I'm not an Iron Byron FOR SURE.  LOL).

[JohnnyO3478]

24 minutes ago, wantacigar said:

I don't know.  I just know the performance I get out of it.  There are 2 courses that I play that I use the Ksig exclusively.  They both have water in play on 15 of the 18 holes.  6300 yards.  These courses eat balls for breakfast, lunch and dinner.  At $1.00 a ball I don't get upset when there's a splash at the end of my swing. (At least from losing the ball perspective LOL).  I still score on these courses what I score with my regular gamers (Vice Pro / Maxfli Tour).  I've gone a round with losing only 1 ball and a round that I've lost 5-6 so I play the Ksigs.  The ball generally lands in the same areas, hold the greens.  Slices and tops are attributed to user error.  I'm a 14-16 hcp and don't notice any performance differences and I'm not consistent enough to notice minor deviations in distance or dispersion (I'm not an Iron Byron FOR SURE.  LOL).

Interesting.  I too carry a 16 index and the last thing i'd want to add to my inconsistency is more inconsistency of a poorly produced ball. 

[wantacigar]

5 minutes ago, JohnnyO3478 said:

Interesting.  I too carry a 16 index and the last thing i'd want to add to my inconsistency is more inconsistency of a poorly produced ball. 

Play what you like, like what you play.  I do enjoy the Vice Pro and Maxfli Tour better for feel and performance but when it comes to a casual round on a course that eats balls.......

BTW, I also bought a double dozen for my shag bag for the short game practice area.  When they get too scuffed for trying to improve my bunker game (If I had one my hcp would be 2-3 points lower 🤦‍♂️)  I just toss them.  

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, JohnnyO3478 said:

How would oneknow for certain?  Especially in the case of a ball that has performed so poorly in the testing?

 

I don't postulate the tester's infallibility.  They've had some results/conclusions over the years that I've found puzzling...

 

[JohnnyO3478]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I don't postulate the tester's infallibility.  They've had some results/conclusions over the years that I've found puzzling...

 

Paying heed to a report and postulating infalibility in a tester seem to be two different things.  Nobody has suggested the latter.  The OP has stated that they have inconsistent results - using a ball that has been reported to be manufactured with important inconsistencies.  Seems like considering the possiblity that the ball is sometimes crap is a worthy consideration.  Even if it is sometimes adequate.

 

 

[NRJyzr]

12 minutes ago, JohnnyO3478 said:

Paying heed to a report and postulating infalibility in a tester seem to be two different things.  Nobody has suggested the latter.  The OP has stated that they have inconsistent results - using a ball that has been reported to be manufactured with important inconsistencies.  Seems like considering the possiblity that the ball is sometimes crap is a worthy consideration.  Even if it is sometimes adequate.

 

 

 

To be fair, I was admittedly being a little oblique...   

 

to be frank, I don't particularly believe their results.  I've encountered a couple too many instances with their data/conclusions/narratives that conflict with the presented "data driven, unbiased" vibe they like to present.

 

Edited May 28 by NRJyzr