Moving from Stiff to Reg - when is the right time?

[CyFan]

Need some opinions from those that know more than me.

 

Three years ago, I was fit into Modus 105 stiff in my JPX 900 Forged irons.  At the time, was fit with a 6 iron and as I recall my average swing speed was 80ish mph.  I'm now a 59 year old 4 handicap with a moderate tempo smooth swing.

 

Now the fitting cart uses 7 irons, so I took my current 7 into GG yesterday to compare against the MP-20 HMB.  Hit both with the same Modus 105 stiff on their launch monitor.  Hit the HMB higher, probably due to the 1 degree increased standard loft, but perhaps also due to head design.  Otherwise, performance was comparable.  75 mph swing, 1.35 smash factor, 150 carry, and 160+ total.  Don't have any more details, it wasn't a complete fitting session.

 

So is a 5 mph drop in speed expected when comparing a 6 iron vs 7 iron?  Or have a dropped that much speed?   Kid helping me said at 75 mph he'd move me into a regular flex.  He didn't claim to be a fitter and I don't know if he had any training, etc.  Last time I tried a regular was an Elevate 105 reg in Mavrik Pro irons and felt too soft and launched too high, but didn't hit side by side with my current set or on a launch monitor.  

 

I like the Modus line from a feel standpoint, but Nippon doesn't list recommended swing speeds on their website.  I'd like to stay in the 105 gram range, since I'm used to it and is a nice balance of low weight and control.  So curious what others think are recommended swing speed ranges for the 105 gram shafts that are out there.  Hoping for input before I head back for a more through fitting.

[Stuart_G]

Everyone is different but one might expect to loose 2 mph going from the 6i to 7i - and that's assuming the lengths of the old and newer sets haven't changed.

 

There is no standard for flex so you never blindly choose a flex without considering the specific shaft make/model/weight.  e.g. those Nippon 105 S are actually softer than some other companies R flex shafts.

 

BUT the bottom line is that you switch to R flex for any particular model shaft when it feels and performs better than the S flex for that same model shaft.   It's really that simple.  And yes, feel can be important for some.

 

Also realize that for some steel shafts, the shaft weight will change as you change flex.  That's important because shaft weight is generally much more important to get a good fit than the stiffness for most - especially as we start to slow down.   So when looking for a new shaft, first look for the best fit for shaft weight.  Then after you've got that, you can look at different stiffness profiles.

 

 

[CyFan]

18 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Everyone is different but one might expect to loose 2 mph going from the 6i to 7i - and that's assuming the lengths of the old and newer sets haven't changed.

 

There is no standard for flex so you never blindly choose a flex without considering the specific shaft make/model/weight.  e.g. those Nippon 105 S are actually softer than some other companies R flex shafts.

 

BUT the bottom line is that you switch to R flex for any particular model shaft when it feels and performs better than the S flex for that same model shaft.   It's really that simple.  And yes, feel can be important for some.

 

Also realize that for some steel shafts, the shaft weight will change as you change flex.  That's important because shaft weight is generally much more important to get a good fit than the stiffness for most - especially as we start to slow down.   So when looking for a new shaft, first look for the best fit for shaft weight.  Then after you've got that, you can look at different stiffness profiles.

 

 

Thanks for the input

[RainShadow]

I moved to Steel Fiber i95 R a year ago after a fitting at HotStix in Scottsdale, but probably should have sooner.

Prior to that I had Modus 105 R coming from the same in stiff that I had played for about 2 years.

My SS is high 70's with 6/7 irons. Carry the 7 145-150.

The SF's play a little stiff to flex, or so I'm told.

I have a moderate tempo with an aggressive transition.

I think swing dynamics have a lot to do with proper shaft fitting. 

If you can't get fit by a experienced fitter, try to find a single iron on ebay or or pick up the shaft you currently use, only in R flex and build a 7 iron that way.

 

[brew4eagle]

I recently made the opposite switch from R to S steel in my irons (same shaft- DG Pro) after playing R for decades.  Really don't notice much of a difference so far, except maybe less of an extreme hook which is my miss.  I've read that those that don't load a shaft much won't be as sensitive to flex, starting to think there's something to that.

[cjrobertson]

For me, the shafts and the club head need to marry up and create the right launch and spin combination that is ideal for your game. Every club head is different though. I tried a px rifle 6.0 shaft (low launch/low spin) in a p770 and was hitting way too much spin. But the same shaft in a muscle back gets me the right numbers. 

 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, cjrobertson said:

For me, the shafts and the club head need to marry up and create the right launch and spin combination that is ideal for your game. Every club head is different though. I tried a px rifle 6.0 shaft (low launch/low spin) in a p770 and was hitting way too much spin. But the same shaft in a muscle back gets me the right numbers. 

 

 

While it may certainly work for some, for most it's not generally the best approach to try and chase launch/spin numbers with the shaft selection.    It's usually better to pick the shaft for feel and the consistency of the results - dispersion, accuracy, shot shape control, it's effect on the bigger misses.   It's much effective and reliable to use the head loft to tweak the launch/spin numbers when needed.

 

[cjrobertson]

On 12/23/2020 at 12:49 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

While it may certainly work for some, for most it's not generally the best approach to try and chase launch/spin numbers with the shaft selection.    It's usually better to pick the shaft for feel and the consistency of the results - dispersion, accuracy, shot shape control, it's effect on the bigger misses.   It's much effective and reliable to use the head loft to tweak the launch/spin numbers when needed.

 

That's a good point and I think you're right, different techniques are better for different golfers. How much spin change can you make within a 2-3 degree change in loft? My only concern with this technique is that it would lead to issues with gapping from my wedges. 

[plim123]

Unless you find yourself leaking to the right significantly, hold on to the stiff. Stiffness also brings stability to the swing. Swing speed is just a guideline for shaft flex. I know plenty of players that swing "regular" swing speeds but load stiff shafts better than regulars and hit them straighter. 

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, cjrobertson said:

That's a good point and I think you're right, different techniques are better for different golfers. How much spin change can you make within a 2-3 degree change in loft? My only concern with this technique is that it would lead to issues with gapping from my wedges. 

 

Generally a lot more than most people see with shaft changes.   If you're seeing bigger changes, then it's really that the change in stiffness feel is causing a change in the swing.     I know the results are what counts but if you need to change the swing there are much more reliable and dependable and consistent ways to do it than relying on the feel from the shaft.

[DJ Aus]

I am going from modus3 105 stiff to kbs tour regular but it will actually be stiffer than the modus. Best to see a good fitter and find the right fit for you, frequency, torque, shaft profile and where it is stiff is more important than the label.