Open Club Face - Result of OTT and Steepness?

[thatbaseballguy22]

See two videos below. Former baseball player, just picked up golf last year. Pretty OTT and steep move - I think that's why it exaggerates the open club face even more. Right now, I can't get it closed and it's like a ridiculous guessing game for my swing - it has to be perfectly lined up to make decent contact and not shank it. Any drills to help with this? I've been trying the "leave the hands behind" and "keep the back closed as long as possible" cues but haven't been helping. Even tried some of the "DJ" just put the wrist into extension and that's not working either. Anything to help the issue? Is it the OTT move or something else?

 

A DTL and Side View:

A video of mis-hits. The last one is probably most common.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yppV03i8QQ0Vie

[Lasorcier]

NOT an expert here.  But, it seems to me that you have a pretty strong grip.  You also have a significant forward press.  When I just goof around with a setup in those two conditions, I find it pretty much forces me to a very steep takeaway and OTT move.  What are your results if you bring it to neutral?  By that I mean that if you are standing and you clap your hands together, they should be pretty much vertical.  That is neutral.  That will allow your wrists to be free and the club can close easier.  It should also help in flattening and not being so steep.  It will also remove the press and your hands will be naturally situated centrally. 

 

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

7 hours ago, Lasorcier said:

NOT an expert here.  But, it seems to me that you have a pretty strong grip.  You also have a significant forward press.  When I just goof around with a setup in those two conditions, I find it pretty much forces me to a very steep takeaway and OTT move.  What are your results if you bring it to neutral?  By that I mean that if you are standing and you clap your hands together, they should be pretty much vertical.  That is neutral.  That will allow your wrists to be free and the club can close easier.  It should also help in flattening and not being so steep.  It will also remove the press and your hands will be naturally situated centrally. 

 

 

 

 

My guess is that the stronger grip and forward press were reactions/compensations to the kinds of misses in the second video he linked, which was very helpful. 

In your misses video, the clubface is wide open at the top of the swing, especially on that last miss. That open clubface position will normally require a lot of hand action to square coming down, but you seem to be taking a minimal hand action "Steve Stricker" sort of approach which means what you set at the top of the swing is what will come in to the ball. That last miss had the club wide open at the top, and that is exactly how it came into the ball, resulting in the block/shank. 

In your DTL/Side video however you have the clubface a little shut at the top, which is pretty big change from the misses video, and you hit a much more solid shot. Yes you are pretty steep, but you're not miles away from a pretty fundamentally sound swing since your steepness is not some big looping compensation for some other flaw. You just seem to making a conscious effort to produce a very connected, simple swing with minimal moving parts. If that is your intention then getting that square or slightly shut clubface at the top will be very important. If you plan on introducing more hand/wrist action in the swing then this may change, but that is a different can of worms. 

[thatbaseballguy22]

On 5/2/2021 at 9:29 AM, Valtiel said:

My guess is that the stronger grip and forward press were reactions/compensations to the kinds of misses in the second video he linked, which was very helpful. 

In your misses video, the clubface is wide open at the top of the swing, especially on that last miss. That open clubface position will normally require a lot of hand action to square coming down, but you seem to be taking a minimal hand action "Steve Stricker" sort of approach which means what you set at the top of the swing is what will come in to the ball. That last miss had the club wide open at the top, and that is exactly how it came into the ball, resulting in the block/shank. 

In your DTL/Side video however you have the clubface a little shut at the top, which is pretty big change from the misses video, and you hit a much more solid shot. Yes you are pretty steep, but you're not miles away from a pretty fundamentally sound swing since your steepness is not some big looping compensation for some other flaw. You just seem to making a conscious effort to produce a very connected, simple swing with minimal moving parts. If that is your intention then getting that square or slightly shut clubface at the top will be very important. If you plan on introducing more hand/wrist action in the swing then this may change, but that is a different can of worms. 

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. Tried to overcorrect for the issues I mentioned. I am hoping that just some continuous drilling will continue to help me. Also, I just started playing, so a lot of things related to feel I just don't have the right amount of "feel" through repetition that most other golfers do. I guess that's just something I have to live with for now.

[Valtiel]

53 minutes ago, thatbaseballguy22 said:

Yep, you pretty much nailed it. Tried to overcorrect for the issues I mentioned. I am hoping that just some continuous drilling will continue to help me. Also, I just started playing, so a lot of things related to feel I just don't have the right amount of "feel" through repetition that most other golfers do. I guess that's just something I have to live with for now.

Thanks for the follow up! If you are still developing your sense of feel and how to utilize your body then a very simple somewhat "mechanical" swing like you have now is just fine. All you really need to worry about right now is the clubface position at the top, which if you can keep square or slightly closed will allow you to play some fine golf while you continue to develop your feel. 



I wanted to call this out as it is a very solid, textbook position. The club is neutral in terms of path, right over your hands instead of sucked back inside (to the left of the frame) or way out front (to the right), and your clubface angle almost perfectly matches your spine angle. Hang on to this and use it as a reference as you continue to develop, because a nice neutral position like this will always make things easier. Most ams that struggle with swing faults are already going off the rails at this point in the swing, so you're off to a good start!

Edited May 3, 2021 by Valtiel

[thatbaseballguy22]

4 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Thanks for the follow up! If you are still developing your sense of feel and how to utilize your body then a very simple somewhat "mechanical" swing like you have now is just fine. All you really need to worry about right now is the clubface position at the top, which if you can keep square or slightly closed will allow you to play some fine golf while you continue to develop your feel. 



I wanted to call this out as it is a very solid, textbook position. The club is neutral in terms of path, right over your hands instead of sucked back inside (to the left of the frame) or way out front (to the right), and your clubface angle almost perfectly matches your spine angle. Hang on to this and use it as a reference as you continue to develop, because a nice neutral position like this will always make things easier. Most ams that struggle with swing faults are already going off the rails at this point in the swing, so you're off to a good start!

Thanks for the feedback! I just finished up playing college baseball so still decently athletic enough to move pretty well at this point. Now, it's just drilling down the fine points.

[BraxtonFullerton]

Also a lifelong baseball guy who transitioned to golf. I know I fight feeling like I'm initiating my downswing with my hands. This causes that steep AOA and can lead to a bunch of other compensations that leak power and consistency.

You should feel like you're starting the swing with your lower body & torso, let the hands lag and drop to about hip-height before you go after the ball, and then uncoil all the tension you've built up to get through.