Does Ernie Els bow his left wrist at the start of his downswing?

[Xander Fan]

In his instruction book he has a flat left wrist at the top. Then he says he 'drops everything' (club, arms, hands), but when you look at his left wrist approaching impact it's bowed. If he's just letting everything drop, his left wrist would be flat.

 

Anybody got any insight into this?

[Celeras]

It sounds like you're asking for an interpretation regarding what Ernie says he does (feel) versus what he actually does (real). We all know the saying, yeah? I don't know if anyone can answer that for you.

 

That being said, you'd struggle to find many professionals with an actual flat left wrist approaching impact. Just put your hands in that position and imagine the move you'd have to make in the downswing to get there... not really a desirable place to be at all.

[MonteScheinblum]

Everyone on tour bows the wrist.  It’s only a matter of when and how much.

[Xander Fan]

5 hours ago, Celeras said:

It sounds like you're asking for an interpretation regarding what Ernie says he does (feel) versus what he actually does (real). We all know the saying, yeah? I don't know if anyone can answer that for you.

 

That being said, you'd struggle to find many professionals with an actual flat left wrist approaching impact. Just put your hands in that position and imagine the move you'd have to make in the downswing to get there... not really a desirable place to be at all.

Thanks. Yeah, it's a pretty unanswerable question. I guess the best I can make of it (I don't want to call Ernie a liar lol) is that some bowing must occur in the dropping. (He's not very bowed.) Thanks for your common sense reply.

[Xander Fan]

5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Everyone on tour bows the wrist.  It’s only a matter of when and how much.

Thanks Monte. I practically memorized Ernie Els' swing from his instruction book How To Build a Classic Golf Swing. It's remarkable how similar your NTC swing is to his. The big differences: he is all about dropping, rather than casting, from the top, and he's about maintaining that 90 degree power angle (which you say is basically the kiss of death) as long as one can.

 

I've hit some good shots with the NTC swing, but I find the Els' swing more relaxing (with the dropping action, rather than casting and bowing). Ernie's feels more like a swing than a hit.

 

And yet, I've been distance challenged with Ernie's swing. I guess I'm looking for a hybrid between the two swings somehow.

 

Appreciate you being in the forum and enjoy (and learn from) your posts!

[KMeloney]

22 hours ago, Xander Fan said:

In his instruction book he has a flat left wrist at the top. Then he says he 'drops everything' (club, arms, hands), but when you look at his left wrist approaching impact it's bowed. If he's just letting everything drop, his left wrist would be flat.

 

Anybody got any insight into this?

 

I'm not sure I agree with your premise. Looking at some videos of his swing, it looks like he has a significant (and late) turn-down roll-release of his left hand where it appears he's bowing his left wrist... But it appears to me to be a result, and not something he does early or intentionally (like Rahm, for instance). 

 

I think he DOES "drop everything," and I think his wrist looks slightly and briefly bowed through impact -- but I don't think what he says he does and what he appears to do on camera are necessarily at odds. 

Edited June 30, 2021 by KMeloney
Spelling

[Xander Fan]

5 hours ago, KMeloney said:

 

I'm not sure I agree with your premise. Looking at some videos of his swing, it looks like he has a significant (and late) tun-down roll-release of his left hand where it appears he's bowing his left wrist... But it appears to me to be a result, and not something he does early or intentionally (like Rahm, for instance). 

 

I think he DOES "drop everything," and I think his wrist looks slightly and briefly bowed through impact -- but I don't think what he says he does and what he appears to do on camera are necessarily at odds. 

Awesome comment (and insight). Thank you! I suspected what you were saying but didn't know enough about the golf swing to confirm it.

 

Yeah, you have the Rahms and Dustin Johnsons actively bowing that left wrist, but I think you're absolutly right in that Ernie is dropping everything, and the slight bowing that occurs happens naturally.

 

I watched this video (and you can watch it on .25 speed through the settings), and I think it bears out what you said. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOEvFODbb6M

 

Thanks again!

[KMeloney]

Haha That's the same swing compilation I looked at before I posted. 👍🏻

[leekgolf]

22 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Everyone on tour bows the wrist.  It’s only a matter of when and how much.

Do you think many of them are aware of doing it?

[MonteScheinblum]

7 hours ago, leekgolf said:

Do you think many of them are aware of doing it?

Unlikely

[Xander Fan]

8 hours ago, KMeloney said:

Haha That's the same swing compilation I looked at before I posted. 👍🏻

You must've sent it to me via mental telepathy! (I'd just discovered it.)

[stingerfade]

18 hours ago, Xander Fan said:

Awesome comment (and insight). Thank you! I suspected what you were saying but didn't know enough about the golf swing to confirm it.

 

Yeah, you have the Rahms and Dustin Johnsons actively bowing that left wrist, but I think you're absolutly right in that Ernie is dropping everything, and the slight bowing that occurs happens naturally.

 

I watched this video (and you can watch it on .25 speed through the settings), and I think it bears out what you said. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOEvFODbb6M

 

Thanks again!

I think watching els swing in slow motion does it a disservice. His actual tempo is just so amazing and rhythmical and I think you can improve your swing just by emulating his flow and tempo than trying to copy his mechanics. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by stingerfade

[stingerfade]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Unlikely

I find it so fascinating how I’ve been playing for 25 years, obsessed with magazines lessons videos etc and no one really talked about the bowing until DJ came around and actually talked about how insane it was. But then you look back at photos of Arnie, Claude Harmon etc and they all did it to yet no one mentioned it. 
 

is that because it’s so subtle and fast that it wasn’t until Gears and hackmotion type of things that it really became noticed as a fundamental?

 

I now we do t know the answer but it’s such an “answer is right in front of your face” kind of thing 

[MK7Golf21]

12 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

I find it so fascinating how I’ve been playing for 25 years, obsessed with magazines lessons videos etc and no one really talked about the bowing until DJ came around and actually talked about how insane it was. But then you look back at photos of Arnie, Claude Harmon etc and they all did it to yet no one mentioned it. 
 

is that because it’s so subtle and fast that it wasn’t until Gears and hackmotion type of things that it really became noticed as a fundamental?

 

I now we do t know the answer but it’s such an “answer is right in front of your face” kind of thing 

 

They talked about it quite a bit, bowed wrist at impact. Even Hogan talked about that years ago.

[stingerfade]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

They talked about it quite a bit, bowed wrist at impact. Even Hogan talked about that years ago.

Not talking about impact talking about on the downswing. And actually in reality bowing at impact isnt happening everyone but Berger is extending through impact now they can measure it 

[MK7Golf21]

25 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

Not talking about impact talking about on the downswing. And actually in reality bowing at impact isnt happening everyone but Berger is extending through impact now they can measure it 

 

its the same thing really because the downswing is so fast. No one can instantly feel bow at only impact, it will happen much earlier with even the intent of having a bowed wrist at impact. 

 

Also, good players do have a more flat wrist/bow at impact. It may not be in the act of bowing at impact because of how fast the downswing is and the release but that is just my point. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Redjeep83

[MonteScheinblum]

As soon as it was measured that basically all elite golfers are extending coming into impact and not holding , it made it pretty damn important to flex early.  This is also why float loading and trying to lag the club is a bad idea. That tends to make you extend early.

Edited July 1, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[stingerfade]

1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

 

its the same thing really because the downswing is so fast. No one can instantly feel bow at only impact, it will happen much earlier with even the intent of having a bowed wrist at impact. 

 

Also, good players do have a more flat wrist/bow at impact. It may not be in the act of bowing at impact because of how fast the downswing is and the release but that is just my point. 

So exactly what I said to begin with. Thanks lol

[Zitlow]

The thing about Dustin and the rest of the wrist bowers is subconscious. They are subconsciously squaring up the face of the club with the ball.

 

If you could find some photos of Dustin as a kid you'd see the same look because he figured out a way to keep the ball in the fairway. Dustin was smart enough not to change it and when he went to Butch, Butch was smart enough not to try and change it. 

 

 

 

[Xander Fan]

4 hours ago, stingerfade said:

I think watching els swing in slow motion does it a disservice. His actual tempo is just so amazing and rhythmical and I think you can improve your swing just by emulating his flow and tempo than trying to copy his mechanics. 

I don't know about disservice but good observation, particularly with him, about his flow and tempo.

[MK7Golf21]

34 minutes ago, stingerfade said:

So exactly what I said to begin with. Thanks lol

 

not really, I mean how can they talk about the wrist is bowed/flat at impact but in the process of extending without the technology to measure that, cameras can't pick up that minutia which is exactly what it is.

 

There was plenty of talk on flat left wrist and bow at impact and the release. You marry the intent of having a bowed flat wrist at impact with a proper release of the golf club and you will get what you want. 

 

I do think lately with DJ that bowing the wrist at the top and opening up has become popular. That is taught a lot nowadays and I never really saw that taught before guys like DJ came on tour with that move.