How course setup is very different based on tour.

[tiger1873]

 

Tours tend to set up courses very different this is especially true for girls.  The differences are usually not much but can make a big difference in who will win.  This is the same course but different tours.  Tour B favors longer hitters because Par 5's are reachable where as tour a likes to favor shorter hitters and makes it much harder to reach par 5's in 2. 

 

 

 

 

Tour A 

 

 

Tour B

 

Hole	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18
Handicap	13	15	9	3	1	17	5	11	7	8	16	12	2	10	14	4	18	6
Par	4	3	5	4	4	3	5	3	4	4	3	5	4	4	3	4	4	4
Yardage	345	135	442	369	316	165	448	136	358	365	117	420	365	342	140	364	306	355

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

I don’t think it matters which setup a perosn plays but i see this a lot and it seems like perhaps a bit different way to play comes into play. 
 

if your playing those shorter par 4’s you might want to play like Bryson and just bang it as far as you can and hope to get it close.

Edited December 17, 2021 by tiger1873

[golfer929]

On 12/16/2021 at 9:15 PM, tiger1873 said:

I don’t think it matters which setup a perosn plays but i see this a lot and it seems like perhaps a bit different way to play comes into play. 
 

if your playing those shorter par 4’s you might want to play like Bryson and just bang it as far as you can and hope to get it close.

Wouldn't you want to just hit it as far and as straight as you can regardless of setup? But going off your thinking, wouldn't it make more sense to be like Bryson on the longer par 4's so you have a shorter shot in? The short par 4's are already short.

[leezer99]

Just layup and play the angles. 

[tiger1873]

9 hours ago, golfer929 said:

Wouldn't you want to just hit it as far and as straight as you can regardless of setup? But going off your thinking, wouldn't it make more sense to be like Bryson on the longer par 4's so you have a shorter shot in? The short par 4's are already short.

 

It really depends on the driving distance and course. 

 

for this i assumed the longer girls would have trouble like sand traps and places where the fairway gets narrow.

 

on the longer par 4’s they would be landing just before it.

 

The shorter girls would not reach this either way.

 

Boys tend to just play from the same tee’s or at least from tee’s that the course was designed for.  I have found some courses and even the way they set it up for girls are useless because it not that playable for girls.  

 

the front tees can be on the side too and have tree’s and just a horrible angle on some holes. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by tiger1873

[kekoa]

The more I read this thread the more confused I get.  ughhhh

[leezer99]

4 minutes ago, kekoa said:

The more I read this thread the more confused I get.  ughhhh

I wish all tournaments were at Woodley. Totally flat and no trees. Just blast away. 

[tiger1873]

16 hours ago, kekoa said:

The more I read this thread the more confused I get.  ughhhh

 

The course setup for girls is always an issue and you need to be aware of how it setup before you even sign up.  The yardage above is almost exactly the same the the total yards for both is less than 50 yards difference.  The course will play very different the one with the shorter par 5's will most likely produce higher scores because a lot girls will have trouble with the longer par 4's.

 

This is an example how the same course but very different setups because they play from different tee's. I could pull up a lot courses that show the same things.

 

With boys I tend to see them all play from the same tees.  Some of the younger boys might deal with this but all girls have this issue. Some tours for girls play from the same tee's and they may not notice most tours do not for girls.

Edited December 21, 2021 by tiger1873

[ChipNRun]

Let's no overemphasize the effect of the Par 5 holes. What about the Par 3s?

 

	Par 3 Holes
	A	B		Length Sort
	131	135		105	A
	152	165		114	A
	114	136		117	B
	105	117		131	A
	145	140		135	B
Average:	129.4	138.6		136	B
				140	B
				145	A
				152	A
				165	B

Despite having the longer Par 5s, course A has three of the four shortest par 3s. And, overall it averages about one club less in distance than the Course B short holes.

 

And, what is the layout of the longer Par 5 vs. shorter Par 5 holes?  Are the shorter holes wide open on approaches, or are the greens surrounded by danger?

 

I bring this up from a pattern I noticed a few years ago from scores on the amateur Michelob Tour. The Michelob promoters had a very ambitious data reporting system, often with access to a moderately detailed course map. The data included hole-by-hole scores of the players, plus average driving distance, GIR, and a couple of other tidbits.

 

What I noticed: On shorter, tight par 5s with water around the green, the longer hitters (avg. driver > 300 yards) were more likely to get bogie or worse than the shorter hitters. So, in some cases poor accuracy appears to neutralize the effect of the long ball.

 

And, if you want girls and boys to learn to compete, they must be able to show up, see the course as it is, and play golf!

 

 

[tiger1873]

23 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

Let's no overemphasize the effect of the Par 5 holes. What about the Par 3s?

 

	Par 3 Holes
	A	B		Length Sort
	131	135		105	A
	152	165		114	A
	114	136		117	B
	105	117		131	A
	145	140		135	B
Average:	129.4	138.6		136	B
				140	B
				145	A
				152	A
				165	B

Despite having the longer Par 5s, course A has three of the four shortest par 3s. And, overall it averages about one club less in distance than the Course B short holes.

 

And, what is the layout of the longer Par 5 vs. shorter Par 5 holes?  Are the shorter holes wide open on approaches, or are the greens surrounded by danger?

 

I bring this up from a pattern I noticed a few years ago from scores on the amateur Michelob Tour. The Michelob promoters had a very ambitious data reporting system, often with access to a moderately detailed course map. The data included hole-by-hole scores of the players, plus average driving distance, GIR, and a couple of other tidbits.

 

What I noticed: On shorter, tight par 5s with water around the green, the longer hitters (avg. driver > 300 yards) were more likely to get bogie or worse than the shorter hitters. So, in some cases poor accuracy appears to neutralize the effect of the long ball.

 

And, if you want girls and boys to learn to compete, they must be able to show up, see the course as it is, and play golf!

 

 

 

 

You are correct par 3's are also shorter.  

 

So much of this depends on the course. I think the big thing is those of especially with Girls needs to understand some setups may be harder or easier based on a tour.   It also makes sense to play around to different tours.  

 

For girls I think you need to 260 plus for these setups to not make much difference. At that point your 3 or 4 club lengths longer then the average girl.  If your only 1-2 club tenths you have to watch a lot more.

Edited December 23, 2021 by tiger1873