Got a Case of The Moonballs - Swing Issue or Equipment Fix?

[s515_15]

So went to the sim the other day - actually the first swings in about 5 months after a long winter layoff. Didnt play much the last 2 years as I was sick and as a result lost about 20lbs of muscle. Lots of rust to knock off. Tried out 4 different drivers i own to see which was the best gamer. Knew i always hit a high ball but never got on a monitor, and didnt think I was hitting moon shots like this. Was the same with all 4 drivers. First is the ol standby, the 9.5 TM R7 Superquad, 2nd is the 9 epic max ls, 3rd is the 9 rogue triple diamond LS and 4th is the 8.5 Nike Covert Tour 2.0. The R7, Epic and Nike all have the same shaft (oban kyoshi white stiff) and the rogue has the Ventus Black 6S.

 

First question is whether anyone has seen numbers like this before, with moon balls with low spin (like my best drive was with the superquad at 134.9, 275.5, 1975 spin, 19.2 launch followed by the nike at 135.7, 274.9, 1612, 17.5 degrees). The epic i couldnt find the center of the face on and just couldnt get it turned over so just high power fades unfortunately with lots of spin. I'm tempted to retest once i've knocked some rust off. Best ball speed on the day was 139.4 with r7. Also tempted to cut down the epic and ventus shaft as the finished clubs are 1/4 inch longer than the short shafted r7 which should help me find the center a tiny bit better, but the nike is a full inch longer than the r7 and had the 2nd best numbers.

 

2nd question is....autoflex? Obviously losing a lot of muscle hurt my ball speed quite a lot, so moving to a lighter shaft may help me out. Just curious though if it would be a lost cause due to my moon rocket trajectory off the face. Or if i should even care since i have good numbers with the r7

Edited April 11, 2022 by s515_15
typo

[Billfitz]

Check where the impact point is on the driver face. It may be too high.

[grochol17]

A few thoughts...

 

First, I wouldn't worry too much about your first time out in months and getting weird numbers.  My swing always sucks for a while after the winter hiatus and it seems silly to make equipment changes to account for a bad swing due to a layoff.

 

As Billfitz asked, where were you hitting it on the face?  With the way a driver face is curved, impact location has a huge influence on launch conditions... high on the face naturally results in high launch and low spin.  Add a positive AoA to that and you can easily end up with the numbers you're showing.

 

That being said, do you trust the sim?  Depending on the model that was being used, how it was set up, and what balls you were using, those numbers may not be all that accurate. 

 

Regarding the length and what not, there's a good driver tune up / DIY fitting guide on here that is a good place to start if you want to mess around with things like length, shaft weight, swing weight, on your own. 

 

Lastly, regarding the autoflex shaft, I've never hit it and never will because I'd never spend that much on a shaft.  Plus I know for a fact that lightweight shafts don't work well for me.  Could it help you pick up some swing speed?  Maybe, but people's reaction to shaft weight is very individual... some people swing light weight faster, but impact is all over the face, so while their longest drive might be longer, their average drive might be shorter due to lots of mishits.  Unless you can demo that against a bunch of other lightweight shafts and you know for sure what the performance is, I'd stay away from spending that much money to try and fix and problem with your swing that might be temporary.  If you just want to pick up a lightweight shaft to try out on the course, the Aldila NV NXT 55g shaft is about $60 from various golf shops, so it would be a cheap experiment. 

 

Having said all of that, I go back to my original statement that I think you should wait a bit to see where your swing is once you've had a few more range session and/or rounds under your belt before worrying too much about your ball flight.  And then you should try out the DIY driver fitting first to see what all is going on before spending a bunch of money on new equipment.

[s515_15]

9 hours ago, grochol17 said:

As Billfitz asked, where were you hitting it on the face?

 

That being said, do you trust the sim?  Depending on the model that was being used, how it was set up, and what balls you were using, those numbers may not be all that accurate.

 

Lastly, regarding the autoflex shaft....

 

 

Not sure but likely high on the face. That's my usual strike point so yes it would launch the ball higher. Still didnt think i was 19-20 degrees though.

 

I do trust the sim. Brand New GC Hawk with new Chromesoft LS balls.

 

I'll retest mid season when my swing isnt so rusty. Still odd that a driver from 2007 beats 2 modern drivers, and even more odd that i hit moon shots with all 4 despite the lowest launching lowest spinning shafts out there (unless you count x stiff which are too much shaft for me).

 

Not too worried about autoflex cost. I manage a golf course so dont pay retail.

[Billfitz]

Take a video of your swing. What could be happening is that you're hitting down on the ball and the head is sliding under the ball. While you're at it look at your transition speed. AutoFlex favors those with a slow backswing and easy transition. Guys who get no benefit from it tend to have a fast takeaway and quick transition.

[s515_15]

1 hour ago, Billfitz said:

Take a video of your swing. What could be happening is that you're hitting down on the ball and the head is sliding under the ball. While you're at it look at your transition speed. AutoFlex favors those with a slow backswing and easy transition. Guys who get no benefit from it tend to have a fast takeaway and quick transition.

i think i would be seeing very spinny numbers with a negative angle of attack and a much lower launch angle. Unfortunately the simulator didnt give me AoA numbers

[nsxguy]

As grochol said, get back into the swing of playing again whether that take 3 sessions or 10 sessions. But first feel like you're swinging your swing.

 

Then get some more measurements and get back to us.

 

And what kind of launch monitor gives those numbers in the yellow ? They seem quite optimistic according to Flightscope

 

 

[Stuart_G]

12 hours ago, s515_15 said:

Not sure but likely high on the face. That's my usual strike point so yes it would launch the ball higher. Still didnt think i was 19-20 degrees though.

 

With today's big faced drivers, that' actually pretty easy if you hit it high enough on the face.   

 

Use foot powder spray to track how high on the face.  Also might try teeing it much lower.

 

12 hours ago, s515_15 said:

Still odd that a driver from 2007 beats 2 modern drivers, and even more odd that i hit moon shots with all 4

 

Not if there is something about the older driver that is a significantly better fit.  Playing length, shaft weight, swing weight, shaft stiffness feel,  face angle, grip size, etc....    

 

My guess is that if it's happening in several stock setups' - the trend over the years for longer length or lighter shaft weights might be suspect.  

 

Also do you use a standard grip size on your clubs?

 

12 hours ago, s515_15 said:

despite the lowest launching lowest spinning shafts out there (unless you count x stiff which are too much shaft for me).

 

Shaft launch characteristics are pretty low on the list of things that will actually effect the launch and spin.   Face impact location and dynamic loft delivered by your swing are the #1 and #2 factors.   And that delivery can be effected much more by the playing length, the weight feel (shaft weight and swing weight) and stiffness feel for some than it can be by the shaft's contribution or anything about the particular head model or year.   In fact going with a stiffer tipped shaft (low launch/spin) could potentially be making things worse if it's causing you to try to force the shaft to load more than it normally would with your current swing - resulting in a early release and flip that delivers too much dynamic loft.

 

Finally just realize that "Too much shaft" is purely a subjective evaluation.  It's only too stiff if it feels too stiff.  There is no ideal or optimal amount of loading that is needed.   e.g.  I lost a significant amount of swing speed after a shoulder surgery a couple years back - more than 10 mph with my driver and it cost me a club and a half distance on my irons.    I tried dropping down flex and weight but found I still do much better with the original stiffer shafts I used to play before the surgery. 

 

But everyone is different.  Some people need to feel a certain amount of loading or unloading so going too stiff or too soft is a real thing.  It's just something that has to be evaluated by feel, not by looking at flex and swing speed.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Billfitz]

9 hours ago, s515_15 said:

i think i would be seeing very spinny numbers with a negative angle of attack and a much lower launch angle. Unfortunately the simulator didnt give me AoA numbers

Maybe, but as you say, a sim doesn't give AOA. For that matter the only things it gives are the results of the swing, not an analysis of the swing itself. I regularly take videos of myself hitting into my backyard net to get the same perspective as a swing coach. It's the only way to know if you're doing what you think you're doing.

[s515_15]

10 hours ago, nsxguy said:

As grochol said, get back into the swing of playing again whether that take 3 sessions or 10 sessions. But first feel like you're swinging your swing.

 

Then get some more measurements and get back to us.

 

And what kind of launch monitor gives those numbers in the yellow ? They seem quite optimistic according to Flightscope

 

 

data was exported to excel separately for the 4 clubs. I just copied and pasted so it was all 4 on one chart. Launch monitor was a foresight gc hawk.

[dh2o]

overall: good hitters can hit "bad" equipment (or stuff that isn't fit for them) pretty well. not 100% optimally, but well enough to not deal with sky balls. granted, yours isn't that bad, but personally I'd spend the money on a quick lesson with a swing coach to check things out before I went dropping money on new equipment.

[s515_15]

19 hours ago, nsxguy said:

And what kind of launch monitor gives those numbers in the yellow ? They seem quite optimistic according to Flightscope

 

 

i fiddled a bit with that website. Seems odd that there is a massive boost in distance when you select range ball type on the top right hand corner when i would assume range balls would be the worst quality ball thus go less far. The sim i was at had range, normal and premium ball. I selected premium. Not sure what the compression is for each on the gc hawk settings but may account for a lot of the dependencies. I had selected premium as i was using a chromesoft LS ball. I will also retest with a prov next time I use it.

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, s515_15 said:

Seems odd that there is a massive boost in distance when you select range ball type on the top right hand corner when i would assume range balls would be the worst quality ball thus go less far.

 

Not really odd at all.  It's trying to correct or compensate for the fact that the range balls are crappy and trying to give you more "realistic" distances of what you might expect to get on course.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Stuart_G

[NHenson815]

I was having this issue at the range today, and it was due to overcompensating.  I fired about 20 missiles into the ground, and while my launch monitor was telling me they were carrying 230, that isn’t what was really happening, lol.  While it’s pretty cool to see the violent collisions between balls, that isn’t a viable shot.  After making some adjustments, my balls started launching at 30 degrees instead, which isn’t good either.  I gave up on my driver for the day and switched to the 300 mini and started getting some decent results, despite it never really feeling right (too light and out of control).

 

[Gerr]

Isn't high launch and low spin the ideal recipe for long drives?  Instead of launch angle, might look at peak height to determine if it's going too high.  I presume those values are in yards instead of feet on your peak height?

 

Look at this site and see where your numbers fall into...

https://golf.com/gear/swing-speed-optimal-trackman-numbers-to-hit-your-drives-farther/