Driver Setup: Change Loft or Shaft

[Ed McNicholas]

After going through some swing changes my driver spin seems to have crept up a bit and was looking for some input.  Currently gaming a stealth + 10.5 at 9.75 with a ventus blue tipped 1 inch.  I feel like the shaft is a bit loose and while efficiency is quite high I was tending to get the strike a bit out of the bottom.  I am just wondering if this seems to be more of a loft or shaft issue.  What I worry about is the left miss when I go too low in loft.  I will say I can feel the shaft flex a bit at impact.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

 

[Stuart_G]

57 minutes ago, Ed McNicholas said:

After going through some swing changes my driver spin seems to have crept up a bit and was looking for some input.  Currently gaming a stealth + 10.5 at 9.75 with a ventus blue tipped 1 inch.  I feel like the shaft is a bit loose and while efficiency is quite high I was tending to get the strike a bit out of the bottom. 

 

That low impact is your problem.   Face impact is the #1 factor in determining spin, you wont be able to compensate for it with some other "fix."  You have to address it directly before you even start to look at shaft contribution or loft.

 

While poor impact is more of a swing issue than an equipment issue, there are some equipment factors that might help or influence that impact location and consistency.

 

More commonly impact problem tend to be influenced more by:

1) playing length too long

2) shaft weight not an ideal fit (too heavy or too light)

3) head weight (swing weight) not an ideal fit (too heavy or too light)

 

57 minutes ago, Ed McNicholas said:

I am just wondering if this seems to be more of a loft or shaft issue.  What I worry about is the left miss when I go too low in loft.  I will say I can feel the shaft flex a bit at impact.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

If the shaft feels too loose before impact (loading/unloading feel), you certainly could try a stiffer shaft but that's a low percentage fix for impact problems.    The loose feel at impact is a result of the off center strike - more of a symptom than a cause of the problem.  In that respect going stiffer isn't going to help the results unless it actually improves the face impact location.

 

Best place to start is to get some lead tape, some foot powder spray, and a bucket of balls at the range, then follow this tutorial. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Ed McNicholas]

So during my last lesson I was fairly centered except the one I tried to cream and hit on the toe.  I will say they are a hair low in the face

 

[Ed McNicholas]

26 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

That low impact is your problem.   Face impact is the #1 factor in determining spin, you wont be able to compensate for it with some other "fix."  You have to address it directly before you even start to look at shaft contribution or loft.

 

While poor impact is more of a swing issue than an equipment issue, there are some equipment factors that might help or influence that impact location and consistency.

 

More commonly impact problem tend to be influenced more by:

1) playing length too long

2) shaft weight not an ideal fit (too heavy or too light)

3) head weight (swing weight) not an ideal fit (too heavy or too light)

 

 

If the shaft feels too loose before impact (loading/unloading feel), you certainly could try a stiffer shaft but that's a low percentage fix for impact problems.    The loose feel at impact is a result of the off center strike - more of a symptom than a cause of the problem.  In that respect going stiffer isn't going to help the results unless it actually improves the face impact location.

 

Best place to start is to get some lead tape, some foot powder spray, and a bucket of balls at the range, then follow this tutorial. 

 

 

 

I missed one on the toe but everything else was just low but centered.  I did try to kill the one on the toe.

 

[MFBach]

If your strike is low and spin numbers are up, it’s probably not a shaft or loft problem, it’s a contact problem. 
 

The strike pattern looks consistent enough to be a correctable issue though. Honestly, the first thing I would try is just teeing the ball a little higher. If you can get the same contact you’re showing in the picture, but move the ball up ~1/2”, you should see a noticeable (decrease) improvement in spin.
 

You should still check out the driver fitting @Stuart_G recommended to find VCOG for your driver. Any strikes above that point will reduce your spin numbers. 

[Ed McNicholas]

2 minutes ago, MFBach said:

If your strike is low and spin numbers are up, it’s probably not a shaft or loft problem, it’s a contact problem. 
 

The strike pattern looks consistent enough to be a correctable issue though. Honestly, the first thing I would try is just teeing the ball a little higher. If you can get the same contact you’re showing in the picture, but move the ball up ~1/2”, you should see a noticeable (decrease) improvement in spin.
 

You should still check out the driver fitting @Stuart_G recommended to find VCOG for your driver. Any strikes above that point will reduce your spin numbers. 

That's why I was thinking about a different dynamic then the ventus blue to just help the timing.  As a side note I do have It teed half a ball above the top line of the driver and I do tend to have a good bit of shaft lean at impact even while hitting up.

[bcflyguy1]

15 minutes ago, Ed McNicholas said:

That's why I was thinking about a different dynamic then the ventus blue to just help the timing.  As a side note I do have It teed half a ball above the top line of the driver and I do tend to have a good bit of shaft lean at impact even while hitting up.

If doing a fitting with you and seeing a strike pattern issue like this and getting the feedback from you that you feel like you're having trouble "timing up" a soft mid shaft like Ventus Blue, the first thing I'd do is reach for a Stiff Mid shaft like Ventus Black to see if that solves the issue of feeling like you have to actively do something to match up. If the strike pattern persisted in same locations, next step would be to install a shaft with a softer tip to see if it would droop that little bit more to walk your strike locations slightly up the face. If that also didn't solve it, can't say with any certainty what the next step would be.

[Stuart_G]

56 minutes ago, Ed McNicholas said:

 

I missed one on the toe but everything else was just low but centered.  I did try to kill the one on the toe.

 

It's true that it's not as low as it sounded in your first post - but it still is on the low side.  It depends on the driver model but even a miss of just 1/4" below center can potentially add in the ballpark of 5-700+ rpm of spin.

 

38 minutes ago, Ed McNicholas said:

That's why I was thinking about a different dynamic then the ventus blue to just help the timing. 

 

it's possible but that type of timing influence usually tends to effect the face control (and therefore shot shape control) more than impact position.  

 

Weight - shaft weight or head weight tends to be more influential for managing where and when the swing plane bottoms out.

 

 

But you never know for sure until you give something a try.

 

To be honest, the first thing I might try is to tweak the setup position a little bit.  Just move the ball a little further back in your stance and/or raise the tee height a little bit.   May not do anything but it doesn't cost anything to try it.

Edited September 27, 2022 by Stuart_G

[jomatty]

I’d do the DIY driver fitting Stuart suggested.  It helped me dial things in.

Edited September 27, 2022 by jomatty

[Ed McNicholas]

Yeah I definitely think I'm just too low in the head. But I have to try too hard with this shaft to time it. I think a more linear shaft might be worth a try just to be able to just swing

[MFBach]

1 hour ago, Ed McNicholas said:

Yeah I definitely think I'm just too low in the head. But I have to try too hard with this shaft to time it. I think a more linear shaft might be worth a try just to be able to just swing

Based on those numbers, I wouldn’t worry about spin at all, much less lowering it. Is there a result you don’t like in there? Or a reason to try to get spin below 2000? Less backspin than you already have could present some issues with consistent, stable ball flight. The side spin is a face angle to path problem and won’t be corrected by a shaft change. 
 

I’m not saying you wouldn’t benefit from a different shaft or profile, but if you did, it would come from an improvement in consistency or delivery, not a reduction in spin. 

[Ed McNicholas]

1 minute ago, MFBach said:

Based on those numbers, I wouldn’t worry about spin at all, much less lowering it. Is there a result you don’t like in there? Or a reason to try to get spin below 2000? Less backspin than you already have could present some issues with consistent, stable ball flight. The side spin is a face angle to path problem and won’t be corrected by a shaft change. 
 

I’m not saying you wouldn’t benefit from a different shaft or profile, but if you did, it would come from an improvement in consistency or delivery, not a reduction in spin. 

I am not trying to get below 2000 I just want to get rid of the low contact.  I agree that I think this profile is probably causing a consistency issue more than anything. Ideally I would be in the 2400 avg and get away from the low strikes.

[MFBach]

It’s hard to make specific recommendations for something that’s mostly personal preference (feel). Personally, when I need something more consistent, I go heavier and stronger/stiffer, within the same profile that I typically prefer. 
 

You mentioned playing a VB tipped 1”, but didn’t specify weight/flex. I’m assuming you’re playing an X at that speed. If you normally get along well with a “blue” profile, try moving up to the next weight or flex, if it’s available. 
 

If you want a completely different feel, then you’re basically down to trial and error. Maybe there’s a good option to demo/fit shafts close by… or just start snagging used shafts until you find one better suited to your liking. 

[Stuart_G]

13 hours ago, Ed McNicholas said:

But I have to try too hard with this shaft to time it. I think a more linear shaft might be worth a try just to be able to just swing

 

 

If the shaft doesn't feel right, that's as good a reason as any to change it.   More people need to trust what they are feeling instead of what some questionable stranger is telling them they "should" be playing.

 

BUT don't try to jump to any conclusions about what profile changes will give certain feel changes.  It's not that easy and most who try are wrong.   Just go out and keep testing different shafts until you find the feel you're looking for.

[Ed McNicholas]

29 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

If the shaft doesn't feel right, that's as good a reason as any to change it.   More people need to trust what they are feeling instead of what some questionable stranger is telling them they "should" be playing.

 

BUT don't try to jump to any conclusions about what profile changes will give certain feel changes.  It's not that easy and most who try are wrong.   Just go out and keep testing different shafts until you find the feel you're looking for.

Well it is golfwrx so there are always plenty of options.

[mogc60]

Feel…it’s a funny thing when it comes to shafts. One thing is for sure, the loose feel you speak of, it’s not going to change. And you’re mentioning it so it’s something you notice and it may be given you the trouble. I’ve rotated through about seven shafts this year. Some older some newer. They are all very similar in profile yet they all have a different “feel”.  I’ve found my contact consistency is best with some although my numbers on good strikes might be slightly better with others. I’m always leaning towards what gives me the best contact and feels what I’m wanting to feel throughout the swing. Try a few different shafts and see if you get the feel you prefer.