looks like USGA going to find juniors

[tiger1873]

Anyone see this news

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/articles/2023/02/u-s--national-golf-developmental-program-launched-by-usga.html

 

I have feeling it will ruin junior golf and shrink things since it make tournaments way more expensive then already are.

[tiger1873]

The USGA has launched the U.S. National Development Program, creating the country’s first unified pathway to nurture the potential of America’s top players, starting in competitive junior golf and progressing to the pinnacles of the sport.

The U.S. National Development Program will identify, train, develop, fund and support the nation’s most promising junior players – regardless of cultural, geographical or financial background – to ensure that American golf is the global leader in the game. The program’s elite juniors, amateurs and young professionals will be invited to join one of three national teams with dedicated staff and resources and compete internationally under the U.S. flag. There will also be a demonstrated commitment to reach players from underrepresented communities and ensure they have the resources to progress within the sport’s strongest competitive and developmental opportunities.

“Today, nearly every other competitive golf country in the world offers a national development program to foster and develop its elite junior talent. The United States is at a huge competitive disadvantage in this regard, as we simply ask our athletes, parents and coaches to forge their own path, without any unified national guidance or financial support,” said USGA CEO Mike Whan. “Golf is the only major sport in the U.S. without a national development program. Today, that ends. Today, we start building a junior development program that will ensure a stronger American pipeline of diverse, high-potential talent.”

The program will create a sustainable grant program to financially assist identified talent with entry fees, travel, coaching costs, golf course access, equipment and more. Starting in 2023, the program will fund 50 juniors. That number will grow each year and by 2027 the program aims to fund 1,000 juniors across the country and impact thousands more.

“The journey from junior golf to elite competition has become complicated and cost-prohibitive for many families,” said Heather Daly-Donofrio, USGA managing director of Player Relations and Development. “It is our duty to unify and simplify the process by removing any barriers that prevent the most promising juniors from reaching their full potential. The success of this program will not only support and elevate the talent of today's top players, but also diversify and strengthen the next generation of great American golfers.”

 

 

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Through strategic alliances with several leading golf organizations, the program will work within the current golf ecosystem to provide supplemental support and fill in gaps within the industry. The program will utilize existing American Junior Golf Association (AJGA) events as part of a pathway for players to progress from state- and regional-level competition to USGA championships, including the introduction of more automatic exemptions into AJGA events at appropriate levels. The program will also bring player development and parent education to the AJGA.

In addition, the USGA has received commitments from both the PGA of America and LPGA Professionals to support the program through coaching and player development and has utilized the Golf Coaches Association of America and Women’s Golf Coaches Association as key resources as the program takes shape.

The U.S. National Development Program will focus on six key pillars:

Talent Identification

Create a process and pipeline to identify the country’s most promising juniors by developing a data-driven procedure that goes beyond scoring averages to recognize, track and measure talent. The program will conduct regular in-person evaluations and camps around the country as well as engage grassroots partners, junior tours, Allied Golf Associations and PGA of America Sections to assist in identifying the nation's top talent.

Access to Competition

Partner with Allied Golf Associations, PGA of America Sections and the AJGA to develop a unified pathway for players to progress from state-level competition to appropriate level AJGA events and into USGA championships, including the introduction of more automatic exemptions.

National Teams

For the game’s elite, the program will create and fund junior, amateur and young professional national teams. Members of the teams will receive access to year-round support, participate at bi-annual camps and compete internationally.

Athlete Resources

Members of the national teams will receive world-class coaching and analysis, sports psychology, nutritional guidance and resources necessary to develop the physical, mental and life skills to reach their full potential. To help junior golfers navigate the competitive landscape and track their progress, the program will offer a range of resources, including statistical platforms and partnerships as well as creating its own ranking system.

Player Development and Relations

 In partnership with the PGA of America and LPGA Professionals and under the framework of the American Development Model philosophy, develop a programming structure and culture for the national teams that includes training with world-class coaches and specialists to apply an elevated and standardized approach to player development. Members of the national teams will receive mentoring from USGA champions and other athletes.

Athlete Financial Support

Build a robust and sustainable grant program to assist identified talent from a financial perspective, including entry fees, travel, coaching fees, golf course access, equipment and more.

 

UPCOMING TIMELINE

YEAR	MILESTONE
2023	Announce U.S. National Development Program and build the foundation with Allied Golf Associations, the AJGA, PGA of America and LPGA Professionals. Foundation includes building a staff, player development philosophy, grant program, data strategy for talent identification and state-level strategy that aligns with the national road map Launch Grant Program and fund 50 juniors
2024	Launch Junior National Team Grant Program funding 250 juniors
2025	Launch Amateur National Team Launch Regional Championships Grant program funding 500 juniors
2026	Launch Young Professional National Team Launch Regional Camps Grant program funding 750 juniors
2027	Grant Program funding 1,000 juniors

 

 

 

[golfortennis]

My bigger concern would be that it becomes a "factory."  We have this in Canada, and I know of one situation where the parents actually kept the kid out, even though they were most certainly eligible.  Why?  You have to use their coaches, their facilities, etc.  This is a solution in search of a problem(the US does not seem to have a problem turning out professional golfers), or more likely, an item suits can pat themselves on the back with, while also spending money to maintain the not for taxes designation.

 

Not to mention, whose purpose does it serve to "develop" golfers?  This discussion happens in hockey up here all the time.  "We need to develop players."  For whom?  For what purpose?  These guys ultimately want to make the NHL, and the NHL needs players to have a product to present/sell.  So let them take care of development, like European soccer players do.  Those who don't like the sport don't care, and even those who do, how is life in your country improved by this?  You get to yell at a TV every few years when national teams face off?  

 

As I said, this reeks of a solution in search of a problem.

[wegobomber31]

I like the additional exemptions to US Junior through ajga events. 

[golfinbrad]

34 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

My bigger concern would be that it becomes a "factory."  We have this in Canada, and I know of one situation where the parents actually kept the kid out, even though they were most certainly eligible.  Why?  You have to use their coaches, their facilities, etc.  This is a solution in search of a problem(the US does not seem to have a problem turning out professional golfers), or more likely, an item suits can pat themselves on the back with, while also spending money to maintain the not for taxes designation.

 

Not to mention, whose purpose does it serve to "develop" golfers?  This discussion happens in hockey up here all the time.  "We need to develop players."  For whom?  For what purpose?  These guys ultimately want to make the NHL, and the NHL needs players to have a product to present/sell.  So let them take care of development, like European soccer players do.  Those who don't like the sport don't care, and even those who do, how is life in your country improved by this?  You get to yell at a TV every few years when national teams face off?  

 

As I said, this reeks of a solution in search of a problem.

Totally agree.  I am no longer involved with hockey, but coached and played for 25+ years.  USA Hockey is only concerned about USA Hockey and making their program elite.  They pluck players from all these different programs with promises of being an NHLer.  We all know how small that chance is.  Golfers would be better off independent, working with who they want and tournaments they want.   These types of programs are more concerned with themselves and will restrict/punish players who don't conform.  I think they can have more of a negative impact than positive. 

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, wegobomber31 said:

I like the additional exemptions to US Junior through ajga events. 

AJGA shouldn't be involved at all.  They have cultivated a lot of the problems that exist in Junior Tournament golf today.

Edited February 24, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[wegobomber31]

Thankfully in golf at the end of the day score is what matters.  I would very much consider taking advantage of these resources if the opportunity presented itself for my son, but in the end of the day he has to own his development so I would be leery of the potential pitfalls.

 

In another thread, we discussed crazy parental behavior at these tournaments.  Imagine the feeding frenzy for trying to get into one of these early groups.

 

By 2027 if there are 1000 golfers in the program that is a pretty wide swath of junior golf.

[golfinbrad]

This is what concerns me:

 

Talent Identification

Create a process and pipeline to identify the country’s most promising juniors by developing a data-driven procedure that goes beyond scoring averages to recognize, track and measure talent. The program will conduct regular in-person evaluations and camps around the country as well as engage grassroots partners, junior tours, Allied Golf Associations and PGA of America Sections to assist in identifying the nation's top talent.

 

Now, you have someone identifying who is "most promising".  To me and I hope I'm wrong, but this opens itself of to what family, income, connections, etc. a player brings to a "pipeline program", than what scores they shoot.  Will this be marketed or become the pipeline to major college golf?  I'm sure I will offend some with this comment, but it was the exact reason I walked away from hockey.

[tiger1873]

 

I think anyone who is a 2025 or 2026 this is a not going to effect us other then we may see a big change in how certain tournaments operate.  My younger daughter is a 2029 so this will effect her if they implement what they are saying.

 

My first thought is this is a factory and will result in kids being told where to play.  We most likely see a rise in tournament fee's too because a 1000 kids are not paying a lot and their parents can spend more or they just flat out raise them to keep kids out.

 

The other issue I see it looks like this going to Effect the AJGA is this why we are seeing the dumbing down of AJGA over the last few years.

 

At the end of the day I see less tournaments and less juniors in the system. If your not one the 1000 at 12 then you will be outspent and already told you haven't made it.

 

 

[golfinbrad]

2 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

I think anyone who is a 2025 or 2026 this is a not going to effect us other then we may see a big change in how certain tournaments operate.  My younger daughter is a 2029 so this will effect her if they implement what they are saying.

 

My first thought is this is a factory and will result in kids being told where to play.  We most likely see a rise in tournament fee's too because a 1000 kids are not paying a lot and their parents can spend more or they just flat out raise them to keep kids out.

 

The other issue I see it looks like this going to Effect the AJGA is this why we are seeing the dumbing down of AJGA over the last few years.

 

At the end of the day I see less tournaments and less juniors in the system. If your not one the 1000 at 12 then you will be outspent and already told you haven't made it.

 

 

I hope we are wrong, but we've seen it before.  Sure tournament fees keep going up for various reasons.  Now you get more and more people involved they are going to want a piece of the pie.  Sports teach kids so much more than the sport itself, but it has become so expensive many will never have the opportunity.  Such a shame.

[tiger1873]

16 minutes ago, wegobomber31 said:

Thankfully in golf at the end of the day score is what matters.  I would very much consider taking advantage of these resources if the opportunity presented itself for my son, but in the end of the day he has to own his development so I would be leery of the potential pitfalls.

 

In another thread, we discussed crazy parental behavior at these tournaments.  Imagine the feeding frenzy for trying to get into one of these early groups.

 

By 2027 if there are 1000 golfers in the program that is a pretty wide swath of junior golf.

 

Have you seen how the USGA makes a mess of everything they touch? I would not be surprised if this turned out to be a mess.  

 

Hard to say what the details are and right now it's pure speculation but I would guess there going to miss a lot great players who turn out to win Major Championships when their adults.

[Bizzle80]

I can see your points about downsides, but I look at it as a benefit. if the USGA is supporting costs, coaching, equipment and training for up to 1000 juniors across the country, I think that gives a lot of kids that might not have the financial means to access a lot of events more of an opportunity.

 

Will there be bumps in the road and mistakes? Sure. But if this program opens doors for even a few talented kids that might not have financial access to travel, coaching and equipment then its a win in my book.

 

Not sure how this would increase tournament fees...the USGA is not asking events for free handouts, but putting a fund to PAY for juniors in this program. Your kids aren't funding these kids - the USGA is. Most likely the USGA will setup an endowment and use a percentage of interest accrued to fund this program annually. Thats what wealthy organizations do...

 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Bizzle80

[tiger1873]

 

Well after reading this I can see already how AJGA has 

11 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

I can see your points about downsides, but I look at it as a benefit. if the USGA is supporting costs, coaching, equipment and training for up to 1000 juniors across the country, I think that gives a lot of kids that might not have the financial means to access a lot of events more of an opportunity.

 

Will there be bumps in the road and mistakes? Sure. But if this program opens doors for even a few talented kids that might not have financial access to travel, coaching and equipment then its a win in my book.

 

Not sure how this would increase tournament fees...the USGA is not asking events for free handouts, but putting a fund to PAY for juniors in this program. Your kids aren't funding these kids - the USGA is. Most likely the USGA will setup an endowment and use a percentage of interest accrued to fund this program annually. Thats what wealthy organizations do...

 

 

 

Have you seen how crazy some junior parents are? I mean they buy trackman already for US Kids events.

 

These are most likely going to be the same kids this program recruits.  Maybe they put parameters around accepting the money but my guess from talking to other kids who have national programs that there will be a lot politics involved.

 

The big problem is people are going believe getting accepted into the program and on the national team == you made it as a pro and millions of dollars will come your way.

 

So why wouldn't they sent their kid to extra tournaments and since they haven't had to pay 10K-15K for a loaded junior schedule why not pay 2-3k for that 1 or 2 big events you need them to impress the national team coach.

 

We are talking about a 1000 kids not 10 or 20 kids. That is a lot kids who play junior golf who will get some kind of payout.

Edited February 24, 2023 by tiger1873

[Bizzle80]

I think the whole point of this program is to find juniors that might be getting overlooked. Not sure how they are going to use their analytics to determine talent "beyond scoring averages" but if they can come up with a process to identify talented players, give them access to professional development, setup National competitions I dont really see how this is a bad thing.

 

As a national program, this isn't like a local club team that has one person in charge and parents cozying up to a single decision maker. Will some talented kids miss out? Of course. Will some underserving kids get in? Probably yes too. But what's the downside of an overall development program that is not being funded by the parents?

 

If even a handful of underrepresented and financially needy juniors get in and get an opportunity than all good.

 

 

[Medson]

First of all, applaud USGA to take on the initiative. I feel U.S. is the only major golf country that does not have some organized development program.

 

Secondly, to @Bizzle80's point, I'm sure USGA gonna make lots of mistakes along the way. (Maybe I should say USGA will do a lot of learnings along the way) For a country like the size of U.S., any national effort probably gonna have its collateral damage. If we wanna focus on the negative, I probably can fill out couple of pages by myself. 

 

I do believe we need more help on the girl's side. Without doing anything, we may not have any top U.S. female player in 10 or 20 years. 

[heavy_hitter]

I will sound like an a**, but really don't care.

 

This seems to me like it favors those that "have" and those that "have not".  The middle class gets screwed, again.  There are plenty events that my kid doesn't play in because we can't financially support it.  Those that "have" already afford the best instruction, coaching, tournaments, and equipment.  Those on the low end economically already "have" avenues through local charities, golf associations, and AJGA to economically help them out.  This will be a rich get richer and helps the lower income while the middle income kids get screwed.  Middle class always gets screwed.  This sounds just like Public Education.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited February 24, 2023 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

8 minutes ago, Medson said:

First of all, applaud USGA to take on the initiative. I feel U.S. is the only major golf country that does not have some organized development program.

 

Secondly, to @Bizzle80's point, I'm sure USGA gonna make lots of mistakes along the way. (Maybe I should say USGA will do a lot of learnings along the way) For a country like the size of U.S., any national effort probably gonna have its collateral damage. If we wanna focus on the negative, I probably can fill out couple of pages by myself. 

 

I do believe we need more help on the girl's side. Without doing anything, we may not have any top U.S. female player in 10 or 20 years. 

 

 

My problem with this is the USGA created the problem in the first place with the WAGR system. Now they want to fix it.  Let's be honest let's look at the majors and see how many Americans are winning vs other countries.  The top golfers are Americans because it works what we do here and don't pick winners or losers.

 

This program is designed for 2 reason to keep certain  Golf Instructors paid well.  Believe it or not some the best golf instructors out there are teaching at some too bit driving range.  There not well known and are seeing time with a futures Major Champion.  Golf is funning that way it's about best score.

 

Anyone who tells you that by 12 they can pick a major champion is smoking something.  No has a clue because you can't measure desire and hard work. A lot times that comes from losing and told you will never amount to anything.

 

This will make junior golf smaller not bigger like a lot other countries.  If the USGA wanted to do something to help US kids they sponsor tournaments that on better courses and lowers tournament fees.  Would go a long way.

 

 

 

[Bizzle80]

Easy solution @heavy_hitter just get poorer! Junior golf is already driving me that direction...or maybe its just golf?

 

Joking aside, def agree with @Medson about building program for more junior girls. Same thing US does for nearly every other sport, so no reason not to have a national program for golf. 

 

Regardless of potential problems and negatives, the overall thought in this and adding financial support to even SOME juniors isn't a bad thing. No one here is getting their kid into this and saying "no thanks."

[tiger1873]

5 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

Easy solution @heavy_hitter just get poorer! Junior golf is already driving me that direction...or maybe its just golf?

 

Joking aside, def agree with @Medson about building program for more junior girls. Same thing US does for nearly every other sport, so no reason not to have a national program for golf. 

 

Regardless of potential problems and negatives, the overall thought in this and adding financial support to even SOME juniors isn't a bad thing. No one here is getting their kid into this and saying "no thanks."

 

The reason why you don't see girls out there is a lot dads don't make it fun and they go extra lengths to make them play and enter them in events they do not belong.   No one wants to play events where girls throw fits yet it's common out there.

 

The only problem with girls events is they get small fields because they play on same day as boys.  They need bigger events that more girls can play.

 

For instance why are AJGA Open fields only 22 girls and over 150 apply to get in.  Why not make them their own event and let in 80 girls or more.  It would make it a lot harder to win but also would give a lot more chances to play.

 

Girls need more big events with huge fields to make them better.   small fields means you can slack off if your in the lead and that is not how Pro events are won.

Edited February 24, 2023 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

For instance why are AJGA Open fields on 22 girls and over 150 apply to get in.  Why not make them their own event and let in 80 girls or more.  It would make it a lot harder to win but also would give a lot more chances to play.

 If you look at applications to events, right now males probably triple the number of females.  PKB is girl's only and I am not sure they ever fill an entire field.  Maybe the solution is Girl's Only with less events but bigger fields.

[tiger1873]

4 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 If you look at applications to events, right now males probably triple the number of females.  PKB is girl's only and I am not sure they ever fill an entire field.  Maybe the solution is Girl's Only with less events but bigger fields.

 

That is exactly what I am talking about small fields don't make any sense.   Peggy Kirk limits a lot events to 36 girls which I think is too small too. Probably could about 30-50 events a year vs 200 or so that AJGA does.

 

An LPGA event is over 100 women.  Very different tournament and much harder to win.

 

It also help boys because they open up 22-25 sports for them

[Bizzle80]

Good interview with the woman leading this USGA development program.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/u-s-golf-national-development-program/

 

Adds some context to our uninformed gibberish...

 

 

[golfortennis]

2 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

Good interview with the woman leading this USGA development program.

 

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/u-s-golf-national-development-program/

 

Adds some context to our uninformed gibberish...

 

 

 

That is a prepared PR piece.  There are a lot of words, but like most politicians(and people in those jobs are politicians, make no mistake about it), there wasn't much said.  "We want to impact..."  Given how good the state of US golf is at the moment, if I was someone involved at the top level, I'd say stay the hell away cause the only impact you will have is negative.  To paraphrase a certain former president, the scariest words in golf may just be "I'm from the USGA and I'm here to help."

 

"We want to help navigate..." Navigate what?  Does anyone think AAU basketball is any easier?  And exactly what will they make simpler?  If there are so many kids now, and they have to "self-recruit", what happens when this pool "grows"?  Then what?  You're making it easier to navigate by reducing the number of options I have?

 

There are always strings attached when money is dangled.  Always.  

 

If we are to take the "interview" at its word, she talked about having coaches.  So, does being "Team USA" mean that you get no money if you don't work with those coaches?  Cause that how it is in every other country.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and this one appears to have a direct flight booked.

[golfortennis]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

AJGA shouldn't be involved at all.  They have cultivated a lot of the problems that exist in Junior Tournament golf today.

 

This is another thing:  will the AJGA become the "preferred partner" of this program?  Do organizations like the FJT get screwed by this?  

 

And once again:  for whose benefit is this "develop golfers" movement?

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

That is a prepared PR piece.  There are a lot of words, but like most politicians(and people in those jobs are politicians, make no mistake about it), there wasn't much said.  "We want to impact..."  Given how good the state of US golf is at the moment, if I was someone involved at the top level, I'd say stay the hell away cause the only impact you will have is negative.  To paraphrase a certain former president, the scariest words in golf may just be "I'm from the USGA and I'm here to help."

 

"We want to help navigate..." Navigate what?  Does anyone think AAU basketball is any easier?  And exactly what will they make simpler?  If there are so many kids now, and they have to "self-recruit", what happens when this pool "grows"?  Then what?  You're making it easier to navigate by reducing the number of options I have?

 

There are always strings attached when money is dangled.  Always.  

 

If we are to take the "interview" at its word, she talked about having coaches.  So, does being "Team USA" mean that you get no money if you don't work with those coaches?  Cause that how it is in every other country.

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and this one appears to have a direct flight booked.

AAU Basketball made basketball worse.  That statement isn't even debatable.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

This is another thing:  will the AJGA become the "preferred partner" of this program?  Do organizations like the FJT get screwed by this?  

 

And once again:  for whose benefit is this "develop golfers" movement?

FJT is an allied associate they are mentioning.  I don't think they get screwed.  I think the tours it will hurt the most are the independents like Hurricane, Top 50, NFJGT, SEJGT, TJGT, Future Junior Golf Tour and others like them.  This is setting up for every kid to play USGA state affiliates and PGA sections.  If they don't play them then they have no shot at this program, at least that is what I read.  That means the USGA would actively put tours out of business. 

[golfortennis]

2 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

AAU Basketball made basketball worse.  That statement isn't even debatable.

 

Depends on your big picture.  If it removes the tying sports to schools(because high school basketball basically doesn't matter anymore), there are positives.  AAU brings out the flesh peddlers and influencers into the open, and also doesn't keep them under the thumb of the college or high school coaches.  

 

Is it any worse than all the grades that were changed and SATs that were faked for guys because being able to play basketball required scholastic credentials that being a musician, golfer or other types of entertainers never needed?

[tiger1873]

 

3 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

This is another thing:  will the AJGA become the "preferred partner" of this program?  Do organizations like the FJT get screwed by this?  

 

And once again:  for whose benefit is this "develop golfers" movement?

 

To me it sure sounds like they are going to make everyone play AJGA events.  Just based on what I read FJT it sounds like state associations will be feeder organizations.    

 

I am not sure anyone wants to play water downed AJGA events for the goal of impressing the national coach who rents out spots at the IMG campus.

[golfortennis]

7 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

FJT is an allied associate they are mentioning.  I don't think they get screwed.  I think the tours it will hurt the most are the independents like Hurricane, Top 50, NFJGT, SEJGT, TJGT, Future Junior Golf Tour and others like them.  This is setting up for every kid to play USGA state affiliates and PGA sections.  If they don't play them then they have no shot at this program, at least that is what I read.  That means the USGA would actively put tours out of business. 

 

I meant Hurricane.  Forgot FJT was run by FSGA, so they are part of the "club" and will be looked after.

 

Pretty much spot on the rest of that post.

[heavy_hitter]

5 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

Depends on your big picture.  If it removes the tying sports to schools(because high school basketball basically doesn't matter anymore), there are positives.  AAU brings out the flesh peddlers and influencers into the open, and also doesn't keep them under the thumb of the college or high school coaches.  

 

Is it any worse than all the grades that were changed and SATs that were faked for guys because being able to play basketball required scholastic credentials that being a musician, golfer or other types of entertainers never needed?

AAU makes all star teams to travel and play without developing any talent, fundamentals, or defense.  AAU is the epitome of what is wrong with youth sports in America.  There are far better ways to run an organization.