If your ball is visible, you cannot hit a provisional, right?

[ChaosTheory]

If you can see your ball in OB or penalty area with certainty, you cannot hit a provisional, right?  You are either taking stroke and distance or moving forward to play from the appropriate alternative place if available?

 

I ask because we have a par 3 with elevated tee, and a creek all along the left and in front of the tee box.  You can hit one in the creek down the left and have it last cross the red line right in front of the tee box, so the only legal place to play from is the tee box.  I had one where I could see the ball 160 yards away in the creek bed but wasn't sure if it was going to be playable.  If I proceed to the ball in hopes of playing it, then decide it is not the right choice, I'd have to go back to the tee box.  Before leaving the tee, after a quick discussion, my fellow competitors decided a provisional was better from a pace of play standpoint, so I hit a so-called provisional.  Then I went down to the creek by the green and see if I could play my first ball.  It turned out to be a pretty bad lie down there and I would not have wanted to play it in any event.  I had hit a great "provisional" and ended up using that second ball so the question went away.  But am I right in thinking that it was not actually a provisional, but was in fact the ball in play as soon as I hit it?

 

(The hole REALLY needs a drop zone.)

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Snowman9000

[rogolf]

Yes, you are correct. 

Someone will bring up the Model Local Rule which could allow a provisional for a penalty area, but that Model Local Rule does not apply if it is known that the original ball is in the penalty area.  Whether the original ball is playable or not would not permit a provisional under the Model Local Rule.

[betarhoalphadelta]

And I think the entire idea behind the rule is your experience. 

 

You hit a "provisional" despite knowing where your ball lied. The provisional was great. So how could that not influence your decision whether you were to play your original ball? If your provisional was s-worded into the woods, you might have decided to try to splash your ball out of the mud in the hazard. Because worst case you're hitting 2, whereas if you have to hit ANOTHER provisional because you're worried about your first provisional being lost, you're hitting 5. 

 

The goal is not to give you an either-or decision knowing the result of the "or". A provisional is based on a potentially lost or OB ball, where you have NO option to play your ball. If your ball is lost or OB, you CANNOT play that ball, so your provisional is the only option. In this case you knew exactly where your ball was, so you could base your decision to play the original ball on the results of how your provisional turned out. That's not OK. 

[wadesworld]

Obviously the exception would be if you can clearly see your ball but can't tell from distance whether it's in or out. But that doesn't sound like the situation you're describing.

[T_Golf_23]

You have so many different things going on here. 
 

If you even remotely think your ball is OB….. hit a provisional whether you can see it or not. once you approach the ball, it is not OB, you have to play the original and cannot choose to play the provisional. Provisional is for OB only. 
 

you don’t hit a provisional for penalty area (aka lateral hazards). You have to decide once you approach the hazard how you will play it next. For a pace of play issue, I understand your perspective on pace of play, but it’s not proper. If it was a tournament or match, this would not be acceptable. Play the lateral relief or if you are in a friendly game play E5 for OB to keep pace of play. 
 

once you play the second ball for a penalty area, you are now playing that second ball. 

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

(The hole REALLY needs a drop zone.)

 

 

So it seems as that would be the only solution to avoid coming back to the tee, as explained by rogolf.

 

If the Local Rule allowing a provisional for a ball that may be in the PA was in force people would most likely abuse it in a case like yours when it is KNOWN the ball is in the PA. Thus a DZ alone with no LR sounds like the best option.