On the issue of lead tape, weights, shafts, etc.

[jc4birdie]

So, I understand that the purpose of putting lead tape on the back of an iron in the cavity is to add swingweight, w/ the goal of improving contact by adding some heft, or feel of same, at the clubhead end.  Added 1 swingweight equivalent to my irons (6i-AW, SW), and the initial range session was darn near magical.  High, straight, compressed shots.  

 

As I understand it, there are weight chips you can add to iron heads now, and one builder I saw on YouTube even said you can add lead tape down the shaft itself to add 5-10 grams of actual heft to the shafts.  

 

Which begs my question...from a playing perspective, wouldn't what I did be the effective equivalent of adding actual weight to the shaft?  Obviously,  I'm not a builder, nor even much of a techie....but wouldn't adding a point of swingweight be basically the same thing as putting a 9 g heavier shaft in your clubs??  If so, which tactic would you builders and techies prefer, and why?

Edited May 1, 2023 by jc4birdie

[jc4birdie]

For context, what got me to fooling around with this was that I'm a 59 yr old guy (in a few months) w/ a very modest swing speed (89 mph w/ driver, 71 mph w/ 7 iron), but I have a pretty quick tempo and less than leisurely transition.  Hence, Mizuno's 3D  shaft optimizer said that 95g shafts are what I need....I'm not sure about that, as I'm playing 77g shafts now (MCA Tensei Blue), but I am sure that my clubs FEEL too light going thru the ball, hence adding a bit of swingweight to the head end seems to improve the strike.

 

Just wondering if I stumbled onto something useful w/ the tape, or would actually getting heavier shafts help more?

[AlohaPineapple]

adding +9g lead tape to the clubhead will result in a different swingweight than +9g heavier shaft, because of the balance point and how the weight is distributed.  in other words, you'll "feel" +9g at the tip of the shaft way more than +9g under your hands.

Edited May 1, 2023 by AlohaPineapple

[jc4birdie]

Oh yeah, the 9 g heavier shaft would equivalent to 2-3g (1 swingweight point) of tape in the back of the iron head.

 

Sorry, I guess my question was a little confusing based on how I asked it.

Edited May 1, 2023 by jc4birdie

[Stuart_G]

13 hours ago, jc4birdie said:

Which begs my question...from a playing perspective, wouldn't what I did be the effective equivalent of adding actual weight to the shaft?

 

No.

 

13 hours ago, jc4birdie said:

  Obviously,  I'm not a builder, nor even much of a techie....but wouldn't adding a point of swingweight be basically the same thing as putting a 9 g heavier shaft in your clubs??  If so, which tactic would you builders and techies prefer, and why?

 

No.   That's not how those "rules" work.   In fact, most of those rules are really pretty useless.   It means that 9 gm in the middle of the shaft will have a similar effect on the swing weight as roughly 2 gm added to the head.   But they will do VERY different things to how the club will feel.  When dealing with the weight feel of the club, you can't look at just the swing weight.  That's not the complete picture.

 

There are two separate aspects to the "weight" of the club.   One is the total static weight of the club (mainly controlled by the shaft weight), the other is the swing weight - or really the MOI of the club which should be managed by the combination of head weight and playing length.  From a physics standpoint, the first is the resistance to linear acceleration, the second is a resistance to rotational acceleration.    Both can contribute to the overall weight feel or heft of the club - but they do so in slightly different ways - or at different times during the swing.   And on top of that, how exactly they combine will depend a lot on the individual's swing and sensitivities.

 

So they really shouldn't be thought of as two different ways of doing the same thing.   Ideally an individual will be fit for both somewhat independently.   That fitting is done through trial and error testing.

 

Howard's DIY club tuning tutorial goes over that process (just ignore the part about length fitting - that only applies to the longer clubs - not irons).

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Stuart_G

[mjf34g]

If you believe adding ONE sw point to your irons turned them into a magical set of irons, I suggest its only in your mind.  If you want to try a simpler fix as an experiment, try adding a strip (9 or 10 grams) of tape in the middle of you shafts to increase the static weight of the clubs. That IMO would make more sense towards the overall weight of the irons. You said the shaft optimizer suggested a bit heavier shaft than the Tensei Blue perhaps its correct. 

As Stuart_G said; "That's not how those "rules" work.   In fact, most of those rules are really pretty useless.   It means that 9 gm in the middle of the shaft will have a similar effect on the swing weight as roughly 2 gm added to the head.   But they will do VERY different things to how the club will feel.  When dealing with the weight feel of the club, you can't look at just the swing weight.  That's not the complete picture."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[st1800e]

If one wanted to add weight to simulate a heavier shaft without increasing swingweight, where’s the best place to add it? I’m playing 65gm counterbalanced shafts in irons, 1” over length and the swingweight is already higher than I’d like. ~D5.  

[Dan Drake]

As usual, @Stuart_G is on top of it. 

 

I'll say that I have wanted to do the "same weight, softer flex" deal with my wedges and I play PX 6.5 in my irons, so I put about 10g of lead tape on the balance point of the shaft (PX 6.0) of my SW to sorta accomplish that goal.  Now that the PX wedge specific shafts have come out, I'll be looking to try one of them out in one or both wedges.  

[Mark_Tha_Tinkerer]

4 hours ago, st1800e said:

If one wanted to add weight to simulate a heavier shaft without increasing swingweight, where’s the best place to add it? I’m playing 65gm counterbalanced shafts in irons, 1” over length and the swingweight is already higher than I’d like. ~D5.  

Having recently experimented with this, I would say that you center the weight at the balance point and you should not change SW much, if at all.  (i.e. If you add a 10 gram lead tape strip to the shaft, put 5 grams immediately below the balance point and 5 grams immediately above it. )  If you put a 10 gram strip of lead tape with all of it under the grip, you should add 10 grams to total static weight and your SW scale will probably show a SW of between D3.0 - D 3.5.  Whether that is a "true" SW is a debate;  but, if you want added total weight that might also feel a little lighter in SW, put the lead tape closer to or under the grip.  

[LowAndLeft32]

I actually tried to buy some more lead tape today and got a warning before purchase that led tape causes cancer. 
🤷‍♂️

Edited May 3, 2023 by LowAndLeft32

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

I actually tried to buy some more led tape today and got a warning before purchase that led tape causes cancer. 
🤷‍♂️

That’s correct, Prop 65 California requires that notice.  Lead is a carcinogen in any form, also cause brain damage.   Don’t lick it, inhale fumes if heated, recommended to use gloves when applying.  

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, Mark_Tha_Tinkerer said:

Having recently experimented with this, I would say that you center the weight at the balance point and you should not change SW much, if at all. 

 

Not suggesting that it's an ideal approach (there isn't any "right" or "wrong" approaches here).  But if you want to add weight to the shaft w/o changing what the swing weight scale reads - you put the lead tape at the 14" fulcrum point of the scale, not the balance point of the shaft.

 

Now if you really want to simulate what a heavier version of any particular model might be in the most accurate manner - you really need to add it in a location that will give both the total weight of that shaft AND the balance point of that heavier version of the shaft.   Which will likely not be the same as the balance point of the shaft you're adding the lead tape to.

 

15 hours ago, Mark_Tha_Tinkerer said:

Whether that is a "true" SW is a debate; 

 

Definitely - but most believe that the shaft contribution to the swing weight is applicable to the true swing weight.   It's mostly just the weight added to the butt side of the swing weight fulcrum that most question the validity.  

 

However, IMO it's a moot point.   Changing club weight (or shaft weight) invalidates any swing weight value one was fit for at a different static weight.   So when changing shaft weight (or simulated shaft weight using lead tape) - you really should refit for head weight (and therefore swing weight) and not use any old values.

[Mark_Tha_Tinkerer]

18 hours ago, LowAndLeft32 said:

I actually tried to buy some more lead tape today and got a warning before purchase that led tape causes cancer. 
🤷‍♂️

That warning applies only if you eat too much of it.  It's sort of like mercury tainted tuna.

 

Seriously, take a few simple precautions and you'll be fine.  Here is a picture of me taking a few protective measures before affixing 5 grams of lead tape to my 7 iron.  

 

 

 

[LedTape]

Went through 4 rolls of lead tape last year chasing your answer. In my opinion, total weight is more important to a swing than swing weight, which should really be used to fine-tune ball flight.

If you feel your iron shafts are too "light", you're probably right. I have had good luck placing tape below the grip (not underneath it, but from the bottom of the grip on down towards the middle of the shaft) This adds weight close to your hands and close to the 14" fulcrum (grips are like 10.5") increasing total weight but doesn't effect swing weight all that much. You can add a lot of tape up there before the swing weight becomes unmanageable, but it can throw off total weight if you stick 12" of tape on the upper-shaft of an already heavy shaft to balance out a light clubhead. In this instance, my research has found that the first 4" of the shaft above the hosel is a good place to add weight and keep a clean clubhead. It's far enough from your hands to where a few grams can have a drastic effect on SW. I have 3" or so of tape on each of my fairway woods just above the hosel, which is about 5 grams. This was in response to butt-cutting them all down by 1/2". Static weight was already pretty good, but the lead tape above my hosel straightened out the hard fade caused by my clubhead coming through too soon.

There is an ideal club setup and balance for everyone, but it may take a few rolls of tape to figure it out. With my latest irons, replacing the stock 2-3g tip weights with 6-7g weights made all the difference in the world. That's only 2 swingweight points added, which I couldn't really feel on practice swings, but my ball flight improved dramatically along with GIR.

 

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, LedTape said:

Went through 4 rolls of lead tape last year chasing your answer. In my opinion, total weight is more important to a swing than swing weight, which should really be used to fine-tune ball flight.

 

It's great you've taken the time to figure what's important for you and your swing and thanks for sharing your experiences.  

 

But - just a mild word of caution when translating that to other people.  It's easy to over generalize when it comes to the importance of any aspect of the club.  Just because something is true for you - that doesn't mean it will be true for everyone.   There are many people (including me) for which the complete opposite is true, for which swing weight (or really head weight) is way more important than total weight or shaft weight.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Stuart_G

[LedTape]

On 5/13/2023 at 4:05 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

It's great you've taken the time to figure what's important for you and your swing and thanks for sharing your experiences.  

 

But - just a mild word of caution when translating that to other people.  It's easy to over generalize when it comes to the importance of any aspect of the club.  Just because something is true for you - that doesn't mean it will be true for everyone.   There are many people (including me) for which the complete opposite is true, for which swing weight (or really head weight) is way more important than total weight or shaft weight.

 

 

 

 

 

Great point, I completely agree. Last year for a couple months I tried out a more rotation-driven swing like Rory, and needed to increase my head weight screws quite a bit to make the swing work. Ultimately went back to my natural "hitter" swing (baseball background) and had to take the weight out to get the face to close, but then added it to the shaft to get timing back. 

At the end of the day, we should all probably get an annual fit as swings and strength are ever-changing. I've got a driver fit scheduled for Thursday, even though my driver is working OK, I'm shorter than I was last year and it's been bugging me. Probably over-spinning. All the lead tape in the world won't help a shaft that isn't optimized to you. 

Appreciate the feedback Stuart_G!