Any tempo and swing experts that can help?!

[BadGolfer822]

Below are 4 views of my swing, I feel like something looks really off in transition, I’ve been working on the tempo but I think my transition movement seems off. Am I pushing off my back foot the wrong way? Any help is greatly appreciated!

6 iron front view

 

6 iron rear view

Driver front view 

driver rear view

 

[MonteScheinblum]

First off, you’re not supposed to

push off the back foot.

 

The issue is your transition is off because your backswing is too slow and it’s throwing off your sequencing.  Your hips are reaching their maximum turn too early in the backswing.  Then firing early and incorrectly 

 

Have the club and hands lead the backswing and the hips go last

Edited May 29, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[RoyalTroon]

Ideally you want everything arriving up top together at the same time, so there will be different rates of travel along the way from address.     Your back swing could use more upper body pace with more lower body follow.   Try changing those to see if it addresses a more significant issue. 

 

As part of your transition you're rotating around the extension established at the top instead of first finding, or reacquiring, the flexion you lost on the back swing- you'll have to get too handsy to find the ball with that sequence, which you are.    Watch the bill of your cap and compare to Padraig's.  His cap goes down and in for good reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BadGolfer822]

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

First off, you’re not supposed to

push off the back foot.

 

The issue is your transition is off because your backswing is too slow and it’s throwing off your sequencing.  Your hips are reaching their maximum turn too early in the backswing.  Then firing early and incorrectly 

 

Have the club and hands lead the backswing and the hips go last

 

Really appreciate the feedback. Is there any youtube video you recommend on the sequencing?

[BadGolfer822]

17 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

Ideally you want everything arriving up top together at the same time, so there will be different rates of travel along the way from address.     Your back swing could use more upper body pace with more lower body follow.   Try changing those to see if it addresses a more significant issue. 

 

As part of your transition you're rotating around the extension established at the top instead of first finding, or reacquiring, the flexion you lost on the back swing- you'll have to get too handsy to find the ball with that sequence, which you are.    Watch the bill of your cap and compare to Padraig's.  His cap goes down and in for good reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey @BALLYBUNION - really appreciate the feedback and I think what you have mentioned is very good I just want to make sure I understand correctly. I understood that I should lead and have more upper body pace. Can you help clarify what you mean about "you're rotating around the extension established at the top instead of first finding, or reacquiring, the flexion you lost on the back swing". Is there a youtube video teaching this. I'm a newer golfer so really appreciate it!

[glk]

Appears your lower body points to the right and upper body to the left.

learn to set up square by placing that alignment stick about 1-2 in front of your toes.

 

second I would work on takeaway.  Arms supply the up and body the around - you are doing little with your body and you are moving your arms around too much.

 

this drill

  and you can hit balls with this just not at first and not with full speed swings.   There is even a version where you can start with the club on the trail side     This will get you moving the club around you better and once you do that it is then a matter of refining movements.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhe5iCyFZko/

on the trail side

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-kuVOOl1B6/

then you can put a bucket or ball between your upper arms but I'd get good at the stick drill first

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-Kqcx9FRb-/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BazdNK7lSr_/

 

start with short swings first - club to shaft parallel to arm parallel first and go slowly - not deathly slow but around 30-40%.   
 

and try sandwich drills  - and when working on drills to,improve motion dont focus on ball flight  but on how well you did the new motion.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by glk

[Valtiel]

@glk Makes a good point about takeaway and @MonteScheinblum of course about transition, but right out of the gate you're stumbling with some weird moves that IMO spoil that whole thing that needs to be addressed first:



Right out of the gate you move your hips in the wrong direction. You actually shift your lower half towards the target, which is basically shifting the car into reverse instead of first gear. Everything collapses from here because you started moving in the wrong direction and you can't really do anything correctly after this. Basically all golf swings require a type of bump back in the backswing and a bump forward in transition into the downswing. Under no circumstances should you be doing what you're doing here. You don't have to bump back as much as Adam, but you should never bump forward in the backswing like this.



Only here do you actually start shifting into your back leg like you should have from the beginning, but now it's way late and because of that weird initial move you can't really shift properly so you're mostly just collapsing your left side inwards pushing towards a reverse pivot which we'll see more of next. Adam meanwhile after shifting into his trail leg can now load into it which we see here.



Up to the top you're now forced to try to figure out how to get back into your front side, but because of all the weirdness that came before you're in a really bad position, so you're right to feel that something is "really off in transition". You've lost any tilt you had away from the ball, meaning that hitting up on it is almost impossible now, and your left foot is still up off the ground. Meanwhile Adam is still tilted slightly away from the ball and is already shifting aggressively into his left side as he completes the backswing.



In transition you're now basically forced to takeover completely with your hands as you make a really fast and aggressive pull downwards while only just starting to plant your front foot. It's all compensations from here.

Overall the main takeaway is that your entire lower body sequence is wrong which is causing the "off" feelings. Everything that you're attempting to do is one or two steps too late mostly caused by that initial incorrect move towards the target in takeaway. Remove that and properly bump back into your back leg in takeaway like you see Adam doing in the first comparison and go from there, because nothing else can be improved until you first get rid of that move towards the target.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Valtiel

[Pepperturbo]

@MonteScheinblumnailed it.  Your turn, to my eye, seems out of sync with your hips.

[Nard_S]

Reverse speed of P1 to P3 with P3 to P4 and you might straighten rhythm thing a bit better.

Fast-> real slow->real fast

[BadGolfer822]

3 hours ago, Valtiel said:

@glk Makes a good point about takeaway and @MonteScheinblum of course about transition, but right out of the gate you're stumbling with some weird moves that IMO spoil that whole thing that needs to be addressed first:



Right out of the gate you move your hips in the wrong direction. You actually shift your lower half towards the target, which is basically shifting the car into reverse instead of first gear. Everything collapses from here because you started moving in the wrong direction and you can't really do anything correctly after this. Basically all golf swings require a type of bump back in the backswing and a bump forward in transition into the downswing. Under no circumstances should you be doing what you're doing here. You don't have to bump back as much as Adam, but you should never bump forward in the backswing like this.



Only here do you actually start shifting into your back leg like you should have from the beginning, but now it's way late and because of that weird initial move you can't really shift properly so you're mostly just collapsing your left side inwards pushing towards a reverse pivot which we'll see more of next. Adam meanwhile after shifting into his trail leg can now load into it which we see here.



Up to the top you're now forced to try to figure out how to get back into your front side, but because of all the weirdness that came before you're in a really bad position, so you're right to feel that something is "really off in transition". You've lost any tilt you had away from the ball, meaning that hitting up on it is almost impossible now, and your left foot is still up off the ground. Meanwhile Adam is still tilted slightly away from the ball and is already shifting aggressively into his left side as he completes the backswing.



In transition you're now basically forced to takeover completely with your hands as you make a really fast and aggressive pull downwards while only just starting to plant your front foot. It's all compensations from here.

Overall the main takeaway is that your entire lower body sequence is wrong which is causing the "off" feelings. Everything that you're attempting to do is one or two steps too late mostly caused by that initial incorrect move towards the target in takeaway. Remove that and properly bump back into your back leg in takeaway like you see Adam doing in the first comparison and go from there, because nothing else can be improved until you first get rid of that move towards the target.

 

@Valtiel - I appreciate this breakdown, thank you so much. This helps clarify so much more. What software or app are you using to get the side by side in the format you did above. It was so helpful seeing my swing compared against a professional.

[Valtiel]

40 minutes ago, BadGolfer822 said:

 

@Valtiel - I appreciate this breakdown, thank you so much. This helps clarify so much more. What software or app are you using to get the side by side in the format you did above. It was so helpful seeing my swing compared against a professional.

Sure thing! I'm doing everything manually in Photoshop using Timeline Frame Animation. 

[Albatross Dreamer]

On 5/29/2023 at 1:15 AM, MonteScheinblum said:

First off, you’re not supposed to

push off the back foot.

 

The issue is your transition is off because your backswing is too slow and it’s throwing off your sequencing.  Your hips are reaching their maximum turn too early in the backswing.  Then firing early and incorrectly 

 

Have the club and hands lead the backswing and the hips go last

Could you clarify a bit what the action of the back foot is supposed to be? I always thought it'd push towards the target like when throwing a baseball or medicine ball (or if I was to laterally jump from my trail leg towards the target), are you saying that's not the case?

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Could you clarify a bit what the action of the back foot is supposed to be? I always thought it'd push towards the target like when throwing a baseball or medicine ball (or if I was to laterally jump from my trail leg towards the target), are you saying that's not the case?

 

Good golfers don't generally push off their back leg.

 

It's re-gaining flex and lessening the pressure. Those pads that detect muscle activity are pretty quiet on the entire trail leg in a golfer's downswing.

 

Bad golfers often push off the trail leg a bit. Good golfers, not much.

[MonteScheinblum]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Good golfers don't generally push off their back leg.

 

It's re-gaining flex and lessening the pressure. Those pads that detect muscle activity are pretty quiet on the entire trail leg in a golfer's downswing.

 

Bad golfers often push off the trail leg a bit. Good golfers, not much.

Agreed.  If anything the push is off the front foot after you get there at the end of the backswing.

 

Very little good can come from pushing off back foot.  Recipe for EE stall flip.

[RoyalTroon]

6 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Could you clarify a bit what the action of the back foot is supposed to be? I always thought it'd push towards the target like when throwing a baseball or medicine ball (or if I was to laterally jump from my trail leg towards the target), are you saying that's not the case?

 

It's not a demonstrative off balance push but there is forward pressure using the ground after transition like you said about throwing a baseball.  No jumping but weight going through the strike along with the club.    The echo chamber is alive and kicking, the trail leg has also been called "Iron Mike", it's a big part of our game from the ground up, and sometimes minimized.

 

Love Jackie's comment about "being stacked" near the end of this video.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Albatross Dreamer]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Good golfers don't generally push off their back leg.

 

It's re-gaining flex and lessening the pressure. Those pads that detect muscle activity are pretty quiet on the entire trail leg in a golfer's downswing.

 

Bad golfers often push off the trail leg a bit. Good golfers, not much.

 

5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Agreed.  If anything the push is off the front foot after you get there at the end of the backswing.

 

Very little good can come from pushing off back foot.  Recipe for EE stall flip.

What about a golf swing is biomechanically different that you wouldn't do the same lateral push that you do in throwing a baseball?  I get that pushing in a way that causes the pelvis to dump forward would cause EE and to lose balance, but in my mind pushing off the inside of the foot towards the target or say inside of front foot is how we would begin to turn the ground reaction forces into proper hip rotation and weight shift. I'm guessing there could be duration and effort differences in it as well, as in a throw you have a long stride with the front foot stepping vs golf where the feet are effectively stationary. I suppose this could also make it a more vertical force rather than horizontal too?

 

Just trying to understand the movement better. Happy to watch/read something that properly describes the action as well. Thanks!

[GoGoErky]

18 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

 

What about a golf swing is biomechanically different that you wouldn't do the same lateral push that you do in throwing a baseball?  I get that pushing in a way that causes the pelvis to dump forward would cause EE and to lose balance, but in my mind pushing off the inside of the foot towards the target or say inside of front foot is how we would begin to turn the ground reaction forces into proper hip rotation and weight shift. I'm guessing there could be duration and effort differences in it as well, as in a throw you have a long stride with the front foot stepping vs golf where the feet are effectively stationary. I suppose this could also make it a more vertical force rather than horizontal too?

 

Just trying to understand the movement better. Happy to watch/read something that properly describes the action as well. Thanks!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CmzlhGRJaJN/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/COYiCxonNSv/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

What about a golf swing is biomechanically different that you wouldn't do the same lateral push that you do in throwing a baseball?

 

I'm not going to get into it too much, but there's debate in the baseball world about whether you "push off" the rubber or "fall" off the rubber. I'm in the latter camp there, too.

 

 

Again…

• Your trail leg is BENDING at the knee in the transition and downswing.
• The pressure (force) beneath your trail foot is decreasing during the downswing.

Those don't align with "pushing" from that leg.

 

And the muscle activity sensors (like I said, those little electric pads) also register very little activity.

 

There's a little adduction that helps the pelvis get forward, but even that's often over-stated because your hips will "fall" forward as your lead leg flexes (effectively, this shortens it).

 

21 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

I get that pushing in a way that causes the pelvis to dump forward would cause EE and to lose balance, but in my mind pushing off the inside of the foot towards the target or say inside of front foot is how we would begin to turn the ground reaction forces into proper hip rotation and weight shift.

 

Feel ain't real.

[Albatross Dreamer]

On 5/31/2023 at 6:26 PM, iacas said:

 

I'm not going to get into it too much, but there's debate in the baseball world about whether you "push off" the rubber or "fall" off the rubber. I'm in the latter camp there, too.

 

 

Again…

• Your trail leg is BENDING at the knee in the transition and downswing.
• The pressure (force) beneath your trail foot is decreasing during the downswing.

Those don't align with "pushing" from that leg.

 

And the muscle activity sensors (like I said, those little electric pads) also register very little activity.

 

There's a little adduction that helps the pelvis get forward, but even that's often over-stated because your hips will "fall" forward as your lead leg flexes (effectively, this shortens it).

 

 

Feel ain't real.

I have some qualms with that video, but we'll save it since 1- we can't hook the rubber in golf and 2- we don't golf on a mound. Unless you're saying that the pelvis position of a golf swing more mimics being on a mound then flat ground.

 

So what you're saying is we simply "fall" onto the front leg with no "push" at any time during the backswing, transition or downswing in order to shift momentum or pressure off the rear leg? Not even a "pulse" that helps shift inertia back towards the front leg, whether as a main move or complementary? From what I've seen there is hamstring and glute activity earlier on in the swing in the trail leg. I should clarify by "push" I don't necessarily mean extension such as in a step up, but rather exerting force into the ground and transferring it to the front side or into rotational force.

 

I know feel isn't real, I wasn't talking from a feel perspective but rather a biomechanical/movement perspective.

[DLiver]

@glk GREAT drills. The first one is especially helpful for me.

@Valtiel Very insightful analysis.

 

I am generally contemptuous of these swing analysis threads because there is just so much contradictory information being posted, particularly by well meaning but somewhat clueless folks trying to help. However there is a gold mine of much good info posted here. Well done guys.

Edited June 3, 2023 by DLiver

[iacas]

9 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

I have some qualms with that video

 

The point was to illustrate that in baseball, it's not a foregone conclusion like you seem to think. Baseball pitchers "fall" too. The video counters your point that baseball pitchers "push off" the rubber and that it's commonly accepted fact. It isn't.

 

9 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Unless you're saying that the pelvis position of a golf swing more mimics being on a mound then flat ground.

 

Nope. I'm simply pointing out what basic physics, electrodes attached to the legs of golfers, etc. show us. If your center of mass is not directly over your trail foot, you can "fall" forward without "pushing."

 

9 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

So what you're saying is we simply "fall" onto the front leg with no "push" at any time during the backswing

 

Not sure why you're adding words now. I haven't talked about the backswing. Downswing.

[Albatross Dreamer]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

 

The point was to illustrate that in baseball, it's not a foregone conclusion like you seem to think. Baseball pitchers "fall" too. The video counters your point that baseball pitchers "push off" the rubber and that it's commonly accepted fact. It isn't.

 

 

Nope. I'm simply pointing out what basic physics, electrodes attached to the legs of golfers, etc. show us. If your center of mass is not directly over your trail foot, you can "fall" forward without "pushing."

 

 

Not sure why you're adding words now. I haven't talked about the backswing. Downswing.

Are you always this serious? Sheesh. I never said anything was a foregone conclusion. But I also wasn't talking about pitching, I was talking about throwing on flat ground. You're the one that decided to make it about pitching.

 

I'm "adding words" because I'm genuinely curious about the action of the back foot/leg throughout the swing. You'll also notice my initial post never mentioned downswing. But instead of answering the question you're just being a dick about it and answering in short lawyer-y sounding statements that nitpick on one specific part mentioned. You seem to think I'm trying to pull a fast one on you or something when my entire side of the discussion has just been from the perspective of someone wanting to learn more.

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Are you always this serious? Sheesh.

 

It's a discussion. I don't think you've got a read at all on how "serious" I am.

 

I consider myself knowledgeable on the subject.

 

23 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

I never said anything was a foregone conclusion. But I also wasn't talking about pitching, I was talking about throwing on flat ground. You're the one that decided to make it about pitching.

 

You're right. I assumed you were talking about pitching because you said "throwing a baseball" and there are many ways to do that. You can literally hop, or throw while you're moving away from the direction of the throw, etc. I was an infielder when I wasn't pitching - there was no standard "throw" that we had to make. So, yes, I assumed you were talking about pitching, because that's the one throwing motion that's been studied a good bit and most closely resembles a golf swing (i.e. the pitcher decides when to throw, starts from a standstill, etc.).

 

23 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

You'll also notice my initial post never mentioned downswing.

 

Monte was talking about (not) pushing off the back foot in the transition/downswing. So that's the context in which I was discussing it.

 

23 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

But instead of answering the question you're just being a dick about it and answering in short lawyer-y sounding statements that nitpick on one specific part mentioned. You seem to think I'm trying to pull a fast one on you or something when my entire side of the discussion has just been from the perspective of someone wanting to learn more.

 

I'm not sure how you got there. I'm just sharing what I know, understand, believe. You seem to be taking it differently than it's written from my side of things.

 

I value my time and yours, so my replies are pretty short.

 

If you're actually trying to learn, I and others have given you things to chew on. But look what that got me. 😄

 

Have a good day, man. And maybe don't try to add whatever into a conversation that got you to the point of name-calling, etc. Gee whiz.

[Albatross Dreamer]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

It's a discussion. I don't think you've got a read at all on how "serious" I am.

 

I consider myself knowledgeable on the subject.

 

 

You're right. I assumed you were talking about pitching because you said "throwing a baseball" and there are many ways to do that. You can literally hop, or throw while you're moving away from the direction of the throw, etc. I was an infielder when I wasn't pitching - there was no standard "throw" that we had to make. So, yes, I assumed you were talking about pitching, because that's the one throwing motion that's been studied a good bit and most closely resembles a golf swing (i.e. the pitcher decides when to throw, starts from a standstill, etc.).

 

 

Monte was talking about (not) pushing off the back foot in the transition/downswing. So that's the context in which I was discussing it.

 

 

I'm not sure how you got there. I'm just sharing what I know, understand, believe. You seem to be taking it differently than it's written from my side of things.

 

I value my time and yours, so my replies are pretty short.

 

If you're actually trying to learn, I and others have given you things to chew on. But look what that got me. 😄

 

Have a good day, man. And maybe don't try to add whatever into a conversation that got you to the point of name-calling, etc. Gee whiz.

I would consider you knowledgeable on the topic too, that's why I was asking you questions in the first place. It just felt like we were going down different rabbit holes, two trains passing in the night I guess! To me the backswing and transition question was just a next step in my mind after you pointed out that the right leg muscles aren't that active in the downswing. Was just trying to understand the sequence is all. 

 

Since as it relates to the OPs swing it was said he was pushing off too much and that we don't want to push off in the downswing (or perhaps at all). So was wondering what the correct action would be and if there's any "pushing off" at any point of the swing.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Albatross Dreamer

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Since as it relates to the OPs swing it was said he was pushing off too much and that we don't want to push off in the downswing (or perhaps at all). So was wondering what the correct action would be and if there's any "pushing off" at any point of the swing.

 

To talk about this, in the hopes of maybe answering your question, but mostly just to share a short synopsis… And without getting too far into the weeds… and in general (assuming a righty just to make it easier to type rather than "trail" and stuff):

• Golfers start with a small push under the left foot to shift right a bit early in the backswing (some before the club even moves).
• The right leg extends and elevates (a small amount - we're not talking three inches here) the right hip up and behind the golfer in the early part of the backswing. This is mostly an upward push, with a slight "back" (away from the golf ball) push as well as a slightly forward (target) push to slow, stop, and reverse the initial shift right.
• Late in the backswing the golfer will generally move their hips forward, often down slightly. Those who shift them more laterally tend to do it with a little core muscle action, those who "fall" do so by bending their left ankle, knee, and hip a little so they use a little more gravity to "fall" left a little. This will sometimes register as a little increase in pressure (away from the target) in the right foot, but even if you replaced the right foot with a pole, you'd see that, because to move the mass forward you have to push it there. That is different than the push coming from the "right leg." (There may be a little bit of adduction of the right leg here, but it's usually quite small).

To me, the "pushing" story is two things:

• You can see where any "pushing" occurs by looking at the pressure/forces into the ground. We've had a SwingCatalyst and a BodiTrak for a long time, and as they say… pressure precedes motion.
• That said, the pressure is all going to be seen under the feet… because that's the only part of the body that interacts with the ground. That doesn't mean that the pressure/forces originated in the leg. If I stand straight-legged and simply move my arms from one side of my body to the other… you'll see changes in the vertical and horizontal forces beneath my feet because mass is moving around, and gravity acts on the mass of my body. So, you have to be careful in looking at a force plate readout to understand what caused the forces you see, whether vertical or shear/horizontal forces.

 

The right leg in a right-handed golfer doesn't do a LOT. It does a bit on the backswing, and then is almost "along for the ride." It's not often actively "pushing" itself. It's still ON the ground, though, and gravity is still pushing. Plus, your body is rotating, so that will register… but it's not a force or a "push" that originates with the leg.

 

Feel ain't real, so you'll hear plenty of golfers say they feel they "push" off their right leg. When measured, bad golfers sometimes do this, good golfers rarely do. If you think about it from a physics standpoint, their trail leg late in the backswing into the downswing is decreasing pressure and bending. Their heel is getting pulled off the ground. You'll see some transverse (horizontal, shear) force, but that's from the rotation of the body, and this is why when golfers do lose traction, their trail foot slides out behind them. That's just the friction that allows their hips to rotate forward.

 

I was annoyed at all the amazement that with Tiger's terrible right leg (lately, I mean) that he was still able to swing so fast. It's a testament to how little the right leg really does in a righty-golfer's swing. The left leg, on the other hand, does a LOT, and does it FAST. Tiger talked about snapping the left knee when he was younger, which both helps you get open and helps add speed (some parametric acceleration, some rotational, some "clock-face" type speed as well, etc.). But yeah, the announcers missed the boat here often, IMO… Tiger never really pushed off the right leg to generate speed, and had his left leg been injured, he likely wouldn't be playing golf kinda decently (to PGA Tour standards - it's great golf for many of us!).

 

I hope in that blathering I've shed a little light on things and not been too far off topic. Maybe I even answered a question. I don't know.

Edited June 3, 2023 by iacas
clarified

[glk]

Force precedes motion  

 

here is dr kwon graphs of 60 some elite golfers and their toward/away force - lead and trail leg and combined.    He has two other graphs for the forward/backward force and the vertical force - essentially a golfer is pushing the ground in all three dimensions thru out the swing - just in varying force and direction.   The force is pretty low being between .1 to .2 body weight.    This is the grf force so the golfer is pushing the ground in the opposite direction at the same level.

[Albatross Dreamer]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

 

To talk about this, in the hopes of maybe answering your question, but mostly just to share a short synopsis… And without getting too far into the weeds… and in general (assuming a righty just to make it easier to type rather than "trail" and stuff):

• Golfers start with a small push under the left foot to shift right a bit early in the backswing (some before the club even moves).
• The right leg extends and elevates (a small amount - we're not talking three inches here) the right hip up and behind the golfer in the early part of the backswing. This is mostly an upward push, with a slight "back" (away from the golf ball) push as well as a slightly forward (target) push to slow, stop, and reverse the initial shift right.
• Late in the backswing the golfer will generally move their hips forward, often down slightly. Those who shift them more laterally tend to do it with a little core muscle action, those who "fall" do so by bending their left ankle, knee, and hip a little so they use a little more gravity to "fall" left a little. This will sometimes register as a little increase in pressure (away from the target) in the right foot, but even if you replaced the right foot with a pole, you'd see that, because to move the mass forward you have to push it there. That is different than the push coming from the "right leg." (There may be a little bit of adduction of the right leg here, but it's usually quite small).

To me, the "pushing" story is two things:

• You can see where any "pushing" occurs by looking at the pressure/forces into the ground. We've had a SwingCatalyst and a BodiTrak for a long time, and as they say… pressure precedes motion.
• That said, the pressure is all going to be seen under the feet… because that's the only part of the body that interacts with the ground. That doesn't mean that the pressure/forces originated in the leg. If I stand straight-legged and simply move my arms from one side of my body to the other… you'll see changes in the vertical and horizontal forces beneath my feet because mass is moving around, and gravity acts on the mass of my body. So, you have to be careful in looking at a force plate readout to understand what caused the forces you see, whether vertical or shear/horizontal forces.

 

The right leg in a right-handed golfer doesn't do a LOT. It does a bit on the backswing, and then is almost "along for the ride." It's not often actively "pushing" itself. It's still ON the ground, though, and gravity is still pushing. Plus, your body is rotating, so that will register… but it's not a force or a "push" that originates with the leg.

 

Feel ain't real, so you'll hear plenty of golfers say they feel they "push" off their right leg. When measured, bad golfers sometimes do this, good golfers rarely do. If you think about it from a physics standpoint, their trail leg late in the backswing into the downswing is decreasing pressure and bending. Their heel is getting pulled off the ground. You'll see some transverse (horizontal, shear) force, but that's from the rotation of the body, and this is why when golfers do lose traction, their trail foot slides out behind them. That's just the friction that allows their hips to rotate forward.

 

I was annoyed at all the amazement that with Tiger's terrible right leg (lately, I mean) that he was still able to swing so fast. It's a testament to how little the right leg really does in a righty-golfer's swing. The left leg, on the other hand, does a LOT, and does it FAST. Tiger talked about snapping the left knee when he was younger, which both helps you get open and helps add speed (some parametric acceleration, some rotational, some "clock-face" type speed as well, etc.). But yeah, the announcers missed the boat here often, IMO… Tiger never really pushed off the right leg to generate speed, and had his left leg been injured, he likely wouldn't be playing golf kinda decently (to PGA Tour standards - it's great golf for many of us!).

 

I hope in that blathering I've shed a little light on things and not been too far off topic. Maybe I even answered a question. I don't know.

Yeah that's what I was wondering and is super helpful thanks!