Please help me with my swing

[iodje123]

Hi all - I'm about 12 months to learning the game in at this point, and whilst I've cleaned up a few things my big issue of early release / flipping at the ball remains.

 

I've watched plenty of YouTube videos but haven't found one that provides an explanation for what is causing it in my swing or a change to fix it yet.

 

My own theories at this stage are as follows:

• Starting the downswing with my hands too late relative to my turning my hips. Perhaps if I think about keeping my back to the target longer and aggressively trying to pump the hands it would help.
• Not low enough with my trail shoulder - if I'm too far away from the ball I need to flip and early release so the club can make contact.
• Stalling rotation of my lead shoulder - if I don't 'exit left' with the club my hands catch up with my body causing the flip

 

Not sure if any of those are correct or not (or if multiple may be), but would really appreciate any of your insights.

 

 

IMG_4549.mov

Edited June 10, 2023 by iodje123

[PedronNiall]

I'll let the more adept swing analysts chime in with more detailed insights, but to start, I'm not sure why you're rushing your hands like that to catch them up. I can't see everything because there's only the head-on view, but your takeaway and position at the top look good. There's no need to try and force your hands through like that. You mention your hands catching up due to a shoulder stall but at a glance it looks like your shoulder stalls because you're actively trying to catch your hands up, which you do. Your body's going to listen to you when you tell it your hands are too far behind and adjust by slowing down the rest. I'd say you're actively killing your own hip and shoulder rotation and trying to force your hands through unnecessarily. 

 

As to the flip, if you're the right distance from the ball at setup and you let your swing unwind as it should there's no missing the ball from a correct position. You seem to have a bit of a hip bump and more lateral movement than is optimal. You should put some lines vertically down on each side of your hips and look at where they start vs where they are at impact, and then do the same with some pro iron swings. The hips should rotate, not slide. 

 

You should also align your video with some pro swings and look at their hands and body working through the downswing compared to yours. You'll be able to see the difference between forcing hands down through the ball and taking them through the ball as part of a sequence. 

I'll add one below, but you should be able to find some good ones of players who are closer to your build hitting irons that will be even more insightful. 

 

Lastly, I'll say that if you go too deep into being technical you're going to start playing golf swing instead of golf and it will hurt your game. Most of the good things that happen in the swing are the result of a good setup. You have that, and as I said it appears you're good at the top. That would say to me you're actively causing your issues by trying to initiate things that will on the whole happen correctly on their own. 

 

TLDR: I'd recommend learning to let your hands work through the swing naturally and losing that hip bump. Really don't think you need a lot to get to a sound swing, though keep in mind I can't see or feel everything you have going on. Setup through position at the top looks good, keep that as is. 

 

Didn't see this until I went full screen, but it does look like you have separation in your hands at address. Your grip should comfortably seat your hands together so they can work as one. That I'd fix as otherwise your hands will be fighting each other to take the lead instead. That could be a part of your contact issue as well, worsening what's happening with the rush down. 

 

I lied, here are two vids for you. 

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/-KqL9_qm2a4

 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by PedronNiall

[iodje123]

12 minutes ago, PedronNiall said:

I'll let the more adept swing analysts chime in with more detailed insights, but to start, I'm not sure why you're rushing your hands like that to catch them up. I can't see everything because there's only the head-on view, but your takeaway and position at the top look good. There's no need to try and force your hands through like that. You mention your hands catching up due to a shoulder stall but at a glance it looks like your shoulder stalls because you're actively trying to catch your hands up, which you do. Your body's going to listen to you when you tell it your hands are too far behind and adjust by slowing down the rest. I'd say you're actively killing your own hip and shoulder rotation and trying to force your hands through unnecessarily. 

 

As to the flip, if you're the right distance from the ball at setup and you let your swing unwind as it should there's no missing the ball from a correct position. You seem to have a bit of a hip bump and more lateral movement than is optimal. You should put some lines vertically down on each side of your hips and look at where they start vs where they are at impact, and then do the same with some pro iron swings. The hips should rotate, not slide. 

 

You should also align your video with some pro swings and look at their hands and body working through the downswing compared to yours. You'll be able to see the difference between forcing hands down through the ball and taking them through the ball as part of a sequence. 

I'll add one below, but you should be able to find some good ones of players who are closer to your build hitting irons that will be even more insightful. 

 

Lastly, I'll say that if you go too deep into being technical you're going to start playing golf swing instead of golf and it will hurt your game. Most of the good things that happen in the swing are the result of a good setup. You have that, and as I said it appears you're good at the top. That would say to me you're actively causing your issues by trying to initiate things that will on the whole happen correctly on their own. 

 

TLDR: I'd recommend learning to let your hands work through the swing naturally and losing that hip bump. Really don't think you need a lot to get to a sound swing, though keep in mind I can't see or feel everything you have going on. Setup through position at the top looks good, keep that as is. 

 

Didn't see this until I went full screen, but it does look like you have separation in your hands at address. Your grip should comfortably seat your hands together so they can work as one. That I'd fix as otherwise your hands will be fighting each other to take the lead instead. That could be a part of your contact issue as well, worsening what's happening with the rush down. 

 

I lied, here are two vids for you. 

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/-KqL9_qm2a4

 

Thanks very much for the comprehensive feedback - there's a lot there which I'll give a try.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, PedronNiall said:

I'm not sure why you're rushing your hands like that to catch them up. I can't see everything because there's only the head-on view, but your takeaway and position at the top look good. There's no need to try and force your hands through like that.

The feeling is coming from the extremely quick and disconnected way @iodje123 is shifting into his lead side in transition which is completely leaving his hands behind.



Your initial turn is a little strange. Not terrible, but it's worth noting. Your first move away looks like a lot of "left hip forward" based on how your head moves down and slightly towards the camera. I just checked your old thread and i'd bet this is because you were the opposite extreme before; way too much shift into the trail side and over rotating. You've swung a little too far in the opposite direction now IMO, staying overly "centered", which is a particularly bad problem when you then do this:



This completely disconnected and rapid bump into the left side with almost none of the rest of your body moving at all is breaking your sequence and leading to your arms getting stuck way behind you. For a visual comparison:



Here is the same amount of lateral hip movement at the same point in the swing. Note the connection in Tiger's movements, and the fact that (although its hard to notice), the line between his hands and left hip gets noticeably shorter. On your side you're just stretching your left hip away from you, noticeably increasing the distance between it and your hands with zero movement in the upper body. You'll likely want to feel like your shoulders, hands, and left hip all work together at this stage given how disconnected they are currently.

[iodje123]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

The feeling is coming from the extremely quick and disconnected way @iodje123 is shifting into his lead side in transition which is completely leaving his hands behind.



Your initial turn is a little strange. Not terrible, but it's worth noting. Your first move away looks like a lot of "left hip forward" based on how your head moves down and slightly towards the camera. I just checked your old thread and i'd bet this is because you were the opposite extreme before; way too much shift into the trail side and over rotating. You've swung a little too far in the opposite direction now IMO, staying overly "centered", which is a particularly bad problem when you then do this:



This completely disconnected and rapid bump into the left side with almost none of the rest of your body moving at all is breaking your sequence and leading to your arms getting stuck way behind you. For a visual comparison:



Here is the same amount of lateral hip movement at the same point in the swing. Note the connection in Tiger's movements, and the fact that (although its hard to notice), the line between his hands and left hip gets noticeably shorter. On your side you're just stretching your left hip away from you, noticeably increasing the distance between it and your hands with zero movement in the upper body. You'll likely want to feel like your shoulders, hands, and left hip all work together at this stage given how disconnected they are currently.

 

Yes agree with all of that - I have consciously been trying to offset those previous faults and perhaps went slightly too far.  It's especially clear in those comparison pictures you posted (thanks for that by the way).

 

I probably need to tone down my slide a bit but perhaps more importantly keep that connection between my hips and my hands. I think potentially starting down with my hands sooner (i.e. in that first moment of the downswing) which in your image Tiger does but I do not could be a key.

[tthomasgolfer605]

Way too much tension in arms and wrists. Your right hand grip isn't helping with thumb down the shaft.

Edited June 11, 2023 by tthomasgolfer605

[iodje123]

2 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Way too much tension in arms and wrists. Your right hand grip isn't helping with thumb down the shaft.

Yeah actually based on @PedronNiall's comment I tried to compact my grip as much as possible today and it made a noticeable difference. Generally though I find my lead forearm get's fatigued very quickly so I've been trying to ease the tension in the arms a bit - I suspect that might help unlock some speed (which is frankly a bit low)?

[MPStrat]

 

 

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, iodje123 said:

Yeah actually based on @PedronNiall's comment I tried to compact my grip as much as possible today and it made a noticeable difference. Generally though I find my lead forearm get's fatigued very quickly so I've been trying to ease the tension in the arms a bit - I suspect that might help unlock some speed (which is frankly a bit low)?

You need the thumb on the left side of the shaft and the bottom pad of right trigger finger on right side of the shaft. Don't ease the tension in arms and wrists a 'bit' . Ease it a lot. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

 

 

Bradley is awesome.

[MonteScheinblum]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:19 AM, Valtiel said:

The feeling is coming from the extremely quick and disconnected way @iodje123 is shifting into his lead side in transition which is completely leaving his hands behind.



Your initial turn is a little strange. Not terrible, but it's worth noting. Your first move away looks like a lot of "left hip forward" based on how your head moves down and slightly towards the camera. I just checked your old thread and i'd bet this is because you were the opposite extreme before; way too much shift into the trail side and over rotating. You've swung a little too far in the opposite direction now IMO, staying overly "centered", which is a particularly bad problem when you then do this:



This completely disconnected and rapid bump into the left side with almost none of the rest of your body moving at all is breaking your sequence and leading to your arms getting stuck way behind you. For a visual comparison:



Here is the same amount of lateral hip movement at the same point in the swing. Note the connection in Tiger's movements, and the fact that (although its hard to notice), the line between his hands and left hip gets noticeably shorter. On your side you're just stretching your left hip away from you, noticeably increasing the distance between it and your hands with zero movement in the upper body. You'll likely want to feel like your shoulders, hands, and left hip all work together at this stage given how disconnected they are currently.

Great Gif.  Yes, the lower body leads and a downswing is ground up.  It’s physically impossible to NOT do that.  However, over emphasis on leading with the lower body and arms along for the ride for the last 100 years has 95% of the golfing population swinging a club with late sequencing arms and all the faults that go with it.   Casting, flipping, stalling, etc.  Almost all the prescriptions are more body, less  arms/hands and hold angles.  It’s like telling someone who is constipated to eat more bread, rice and cheese.

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

However, over emphasis on leading with the lower body and arms along for the ride for the last 100 years has 95% of the golfing population swinging a club with late sequencing arms and all the faults that go with it.

 

Hallelujah.

 

Death to "passive" arms that are just "along for the ride" or whatever (for many, not everyone. And feel ain't real.)

[tthomasgolfer605]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Hallelujah.

 

Death to "passive" arms that are just "along for the ride" or whatever (for many, not everyone. And feel ain't real.)

 

There's a way to use the ground to speed up the arms without just thinking "speed up the arms". 

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

There's a way to use the ground to speed up the arms without just thinking "speed up the arms". 

 

I didn't say golfers should think "speed up the arms." 😕

[tthomasgolfer605]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

I didn't say golfers should think "speed up the arms." 😕

What does death to passive arms mean? 

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

What does death to passive arms mean? 

 

That the arms "do" things in the golf swing and aren't all that passive, even if they sometimes feel passive to some players. I, like Monte, see plenty of golfers whose arms have to "do" more. Be more active.

 

As this topic is about this specific person and not swing theory, etc. I'll try to leave it at that.

[MonteScheinblum]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

That the arms "do" things in the golf swing and aren't all that passive, even if they sometimes feel passive to some players. I, like Monte, see plenty of golfers whose arms have to "do" more. Be more active.

 

As this topic is about this specific person and not swing theory, etc. I'll try to leave it at that.

Pretty much death to all extremes and false dichotomies.  

[tthomasgolfer605]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

That the arms "do" things in the golf swing and aren't all that passive, even if they sometimes feel passive to some players. I, like Monte, see plenty of golfers whose arms have to "do" more. Be more active.

 

As this topic is about this specific person and not swing theory, etc. I'll try to leave it at that.

Hard to get the arms/wrists to do anything with excessive tension like the OP has. No leverage in his motion.

[iodje123]

Hi gents - I've been trying to start my hands down earlier and keep my forearms loose. The swing is feeling better and I think I've made some progress - to my eye at least the hands are moving a little earlier, but please take a look at the attached videos.

 

However, I still have the early release (although maybe a little less). I'm scratching my head as to what to try next. A friend of mine said he thought I was rotating my hips too early quickly which could make sense, but I'm at a bit of a loss. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong with my hips with them getting locked up at the end.

 

Any ideas on what I should try next?

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by iodje123