Confusion! Shot shaping, Dplane

[Kwheat]

Hey all... Probably dove too deep in the rabbit hole but trying to sort out this mental model and try to keep working on shaping shots to hit the 9 windows

 

My game- 3ish hdcp, fairly long hitter.  Last year hit draws on woods, long irons fairly straight, shape mid/low irons with fading becoming progressively harder the longer the club.   This year, worked over winter on cutting woods (can still draw if need be), long irons straight, but now struggling with shaping mid/short irons, most consistent shot now is inconsistency lol, but probably a push/pull (basically along body alignment, club face is squaring up).  The more I've read, the worse the short/mid irons are getting.  Long shot quality basically staying the same, just different in flight.

 

So here's my questions:

1.  I thought, via Dplane, it was more natural to hit draws w/irons, fades with anything long because of ball position.  Further up meant naturally contacting while arc starts turning left and vice versa for back in the stance-- McIlroy talks about this in his shot shaping videos on Golfpass.  But then... Swinging down on an iron means we should "naturally" want the divot to be pointing left and is more conducive to a fade bias, opposite with hitting up where we want the arc to go inside out to hit up- Hogan espouses this in a bunch of places I've read.   So what gives?   How are you reconciling ball position vs angle of descent/ascent?  What's easiest/hardest?

 

2. How are you shaping shots (say a fade) relative to question above?  I've read all of these in some combination below:

 

-Align left of target (only thing I've seen consistently)

-Swing down body line vs swing left (like towards lead leg/3rd base), swing with shoulders /upper body/arms and less with legs vs do nothing different vs feel more open at impact

-Keep hands quiet/held off vs release under vs weaken grip at address

-Align club face closed of target/open club face relative to body

 

Easiest cut swing for me is to aim a little left, swing left and keep the shoulders moving/cover the ball- distance is no different than a draw, driver swing speed still in the teens, slightly lower trajectory.

 

Easiest draw is basically opposite, push harder with lower body/hit it with my right hip and feel the arms sling by. 

 

Medium/low fade and medium/high draw is easiest wood trajectory, exact opposite for irons for me.   Hardest shots are mid iron mid/low cut (always overcut/flare), high 9/pw draw (push city here), any long irons that need to shape significantly either direction 

 

 

 

[getitdaily]

Stock is a fade. I line up slightly open and then swing left.

 

For a draw I just focus on my hand path being slightly more inside to slightly less left and have a "stay back" feel with the lead shoulder.

 

I'm scratch/+ and I can't imagine trying to hit 9 windows...I can hit draws when I want and I know how to flight the ball...both fade and draw. I think you're down a technical rabbit hole that has a serpent in it.

[phizzy30]

I pretty much play a draw and only fade when I absolutely need to.

 

Fade for me:  Stance is open a bit and so are shoulders.  I swing left and try to keep the face as square to slightly open as long as possible.  Helicopter finish like Arnold.  If done correctly, the ball starts straight or slightly right and starts to cut. 

 

Draw for me:  Stance is very neutral but shoulders are a little closed.  I keep my left shoulder closed/shut on the downswing for as long as possible and swing in to out.  Ball starts off straight and starts to turn over.  For irons, divots tend to be straight to pointed slightly to the right. 

[Sean124]

23 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I'm scratch/+ and I can't imagine trying to hit 9 windows...I can hit draws when I want and I know how to flight the ball...both fade and draw. I think you're down a technical rabbit hole that has a serpent in it.

Me too and I agree. 

[Kwheat]

27 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Stock is a fade. I line up slightly open and then swing left.

 

For a draw I just focus on my hand path being slightly more inside to slightly less left and have a "stay back" feel with the lead shoulder.

 

I'm scratch/+ and I can't imagine trying to hit 9 windows...I can hit draws when I want and I know how to flight the ball...both fade and draw. I think you're down a technical rabbit hole that has a serpent in it.

Lol I definitely agree.  I doubt I'll get to hitting the windows but it's something I like to aspire to at the range.  Definitely a cobra down here.  

[MonteScheinblum]

The number of people on the tour who shape both ways is less than 5.  
 

You are limiting you’re scoring ability with all of that over thinking.

[bmbsawy]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The number of people on the tour who shape both ways is less than 5.  
 

You are limiting you’re scoring ability with all of that over thinking.

Do you think most of the folks who play one shot practice the 9 box drill to keep their swing fairly neutral?