Hip speed vs Arm speed

[phizzy30]

Hip speed guys:

Cameron Young

Min Woo Lee

young Tiger

 

Arm speed guys:

Tony Finau

Gary Woodland

Cameron Champ

 

I'm a believer that either method can be used to generate speed in the swing.  For example, if you look at Cameron Young, he squats into the ball and absolutely unleashes with his hips firing through the zone and his arms trailing behind.  Then you have a guy like Tony Finau who doesn't have much in the way of hip speed, but generates a ton of speed with his arms.  My question to you guys is........Are you a hip speed or arm speed guy?  I for one am a hip speed player and have always been from an early age due to my baseball back round. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by phizzy30

[ALIF]

21 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Hip speed guys:

Cameron Young

Min Woo Lee

young Tiger

 

Arm speed guys:

Tony Finau

Gary Woodland

Cameron Champ

 

I'm a believer that either method can be used to generate speed in the swing.  For example, if you look at Cameron Young, he squats into the ball and absolutely unleashes with his hips firing through the zone and his arms trailing behind.  Then you have a guy like Tony Finau who doesn't have much in the way of hip speed, but generates a ton of speed with his arms.  My question to you guys is........Are you a hip speed or arm speed guy?  I for one am a hip speed player and have always been from an early age due to my baseball back round. 

The ironic thing is is if you asked all of the players that you say are hip speed players none of them would tell you that they are trying to fire their hips or get their hips open as much as they can. That is a death swing thought. I believe Monte, the AMG guys, etc. etc. etc. would agree.

[phizzy30]

Just now, ALIF said:

The ironic thing is is if you asked all of the players that you say are hip speed players none of them would tell you that they are trying to fire their hips or get their hips open as much as they can. That is a death swing thought. I believe Monte, the AMG guys, etc. etc. etc. would agree.

Yes, I've had that conversation with Monte before.  How the arms, hips and legs must be synchronized and sequenced correctly in order to efficiently transfer energy into the ball.  However, I believe that some guys naturally fire their hips faster than others and get speed that way more so than the guy that doesn't fire his as fast but is blessed with blazing fast arm speed.  Also, I've hit some of my longest drives and highest ball speeds when my hips fire as fast as possible and open up as much as possible.  I also see that the WLD guys have incredible hip speed as well.  

Edited July 4, 2023 by phizzy30

[glk]

This is a false dichotomy - hip, thorax, arms, shoulder velocity are all correlated to club head speed - in backswing and downswing    Wrist uncocking only in downswing.  And the decrease in hip and arm velocity in the downswing also correlates - why you want peak velocity early so more time to decelerate  - shoulder decel does not correlate in downswing due to some people actually continue to increase shoulder acceleration thru impact - dr kwon calls this late shoulder acceleration.

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

As glf said, false dichotomy.  
 

No one has fast hips without fast arms or they’d hit it short.  See LPGA players.

 

The last time I competed was 2015.  My long drive swing has 10-15 mph more ball speed and hips were slower by 20% and arms were slower by a small amount.

The deceleration curves of all the segments were much sharper and that’s why I gained speed.  
 

I’m not trying to be harsh, but the golf world needs to get off all these false narratives.

Edited July 4, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[Kuuuch]

Not a knock on you OP but I wish these arm vs hip, pivot driven swing vs arm driven swing convos would die lol. 

[MonteScheinblum]

19 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

Not a knock on you OP but I wish these arm vs hip, pivot driven swing vs arm driven swing convos would die lol. 

A painful and horrible death.  
 

It’s the same debate as change your diet or exercise better to lose weight.  The zealots on both sides have their narratives and the answer is both. 
 

Same stupid argument as drive for show and putt for dough versus the guys who hit it the longest make the most money. 
 

The answer to better golf is hit it farther, hit it better and make more putts.

 

Plenty of “pivot driven swingers” need to speed their arms up.  An equal amount of “arm swingers” need better pelvis movement.

 

The object of improvement is to find where you’re deficient.  Could be just setup.

 

However, I have seen hundreds of golfers create terrible swings trying to be pivot driven for more consistency and less timing based.  I love those words like getting together with my excite.  I have also seen many golfers think using more body creates more speed.  Well which is it?

 

I have seen very few golfers engage their arms and hands early……because it’s impossible. Incorrectly, yes.

Edited July 4, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[MPStrat]

You can absolutely “release” “fire” or “hit” with the arms too early just like you can fire them too late. I fire them early when I try to hit a really high shot or even a flop. If you fire them too late you will have too much shaft lean, hit the ball too low and struggle to hold greens. 

Many amateur golfers need a later “hit” to allow better sequencing and prevent their motion from being too arm dominant — this isn’t earth shattering news. Although, if your biggest source of golf instructional content for the last 5 years is this forum, it might be.

 

So many golfers have no transition with the body or a bad one. It’s: backswing, then hit with the arms.  It’s bad sequencing that often requires delaying the hit with with the arms to fix the problem.  
 

That doesn’t mean the arms can’t or don’t do certain things early in the downswing, but hitting with the arms too early is death. 

 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

If you fire them too late you will have too much shaft lean, hit the ball too low and struggle to hold greens. 

(Looks at persistent >.6 * static loft launch angle, rubs chin thoughfully...)  Kidding.  Mostly.

 

What should we be focusing on as ams, then, if the upthread pivot driven vs arm driven dichotomy is a no go?

 

 

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

Not a knock on you OP but I wish these arm vs hip, pivot driven swing vs arm driven swing convos would die lol. 

Done.