Upper body vs lower body dominance

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I see a combination of lead hip and lead shoulder start to go up. 

Gotcha, a better place to look for vertical would be the entire pelvis lift. The pelvis elevating straight up. You can see upward movement from tilts and rotations on an angled planes of motion the trick you into attributing the back half of those rotations to vertical force.

 

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Gotcha, a better place to look for vertical would be the entire pelvis lift. The pelvis elevating straight up. You can see upward movement from tilts and rotations on an angled planes of motion the trick you into attributing the back half of those rotations to vertical force.

 

Appreciate your responses. I have a hang injury that will sideline me for a couple weeks. I plan to work on this stuff as soon as I can get back to it.

[Chunkitgood]

4 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Similarly, I’ve only seen one of my college players overdo it.

 

A lot of people would look at this transition and think it looks pretty rotational, but it’s actually very “fall left” lateral. It’s hidden at dtl, but the behind view shows the big lateral push off the trail foot.

 

 

 

Interesting I was thinking before I got online this evening about posting about whether the feeling I get of being almost about to fall if I don’t do something to stop it is common or a good thing.  I was thinking in terms of being in a balanced but unstable position throughout the swing as maybe a necessity of generating the force required.

 

Any other sources on this “left fall” idea?

[blades_are_life]

11 hours ago, virtuoso said:

That school is missing one ingredient. It should be load the trail side, then load the lead side, then fire everything.

 

What I’m trying to get at is that in order to max out the rotational and vertical forces, you have to have “enough” lateral first. Most people don’t. You have to load up that lead leg and foot, and still have a residual rotational range of motion still waiting, before you fire up and around.

Oh damn that instantly clarified so many things for me thank you. It is just a subtle little shift coincident with dropping the hands into the slot and when I make sure to do it correctly the difference in stability is unmistakable. I am sitting here grooving half swings with a consistency I have not enjoyed in quite some time.

[blades_are_life]

The key for me to get it repeatable is simply focus on the feeling of the left foot engaging solidly with the ground.

[GolfTurkey]

9 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

As much left as you can get left after an initial trail side shift off the ball generally never gets over done.  Have only seen it once.

 

Any tips on how to do this for the maimed?

 

After Thursday, I will have a lead hip held together with screws and a lead knee held together with screws. The old hang back and sling the arms at it gets around the limitations but sucks from a golf point of view.

[MonteScheinblum]

16 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

Any tips on how to do this for the maimed?

 

After Thursday, I will have a lead hip held together with screws and a lead knee held together with screws. The old hang back and sling the arms at it gets around the limitations but sucks from a golf point of view.

That’s a different kettle of fish.  I’d have to be hands on with that one.

[GolfTurkey]

17 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

That’s a different kettle of fish.  I’d have to be hands on with that one.

Thanks, I thought that might be the case. “Kettle of fish” is one term, at this point I prefer “cluster…”

[virtuoso]

7 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

Interesting I was thinking before I got online this evening about posting about whether the feeling I get of being almost about to fall if I don’t do something to stop it is common or a good thing.  I was thinking in terms of being in a balanced but unstable position throughout the swing as maybe a necessity of generating the force required.

 

Any other sources on this “left fall” idea?

He’s a good source:

[virtuoso]

7 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Appreciate your responses. I have a hang injury that will sideline me for a couple weeks. I plan to work on this stuff as soon as I can get back to it.

Happy to do it. I’m sure you’ll figure it out. Good luck with it.

[virtuoso]

7 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

Interesting I was thinking before I got online this evening about posting about whether the feeling I get of being almost about to fall if I don’t do something to stop it is common or a good thing.  I was thinking in terms of being in a balanced but unstable position throughout the swing as maybe a necessity of generating the force required.

 

Any other sources on this “left fall” idea?

Here’s one more:

 

[virtuoso]

8 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

Interesting I was thinking before I got online this evening about posting about whether the feeling I get of being almost about to fall if I don’t do something to stop it is common or a good thing.  I was thinking in terms of being in a balanced but unstable position throughout the swing as maybe a necessity of generating the force required.

 

Any other sources on this “left fall” idea?

Big fall, hard landing, and massive verticals to follow…

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by virtuoso

[virtuoso]

Big verticals after a hard step:

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by virtuoso

[airjammer]

13 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Here you go. This was after a couple months of reps primarily aimed at reducing how steep I am in transition. 

You have a good motion and you are only steep because your hips and chest move at the same time on the downswing. 

[Zitlow]

The fall has nothing to do with trying to shift to the left side early in the backswing while artificially keeping the shoulders turned. 

 

The shift with the back to the target is a reaction to directing the energy out to the ball not to the target. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

The fall has nothing to do with trying to shift to the left side early in the backswing while artificially keeping the shoulders turned. 

 

The shift with the back to the target is a reaction to directing the energy out to the ball not to the target. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't agree with any of your post. I'm pretty sure everything you stated is quite false actually. 

[Zitlow]

Just now, getitdaily said:

I don't agree with any of your post. I'm pretty sure everything you stated is quite false actually. 

 

That's fine, I don't need validation or confirmation bias. 

[GungHoGolf]

Elite golfers typically max their vertical force somewhere between P5 and P6 - closer to P5 for the higher speed guys.

 

It’s hard to spot max vertical on video, but note that it happens at the instant the “fall” is finished and the lead leg STARTS pressing against the ground. As soon as the lead side starts rising and lead knee starts extending, vertical force starts dropping.

 

I know the shoes and left ankle stuff has been covered, but I just had to share a pic of this - ouch!

 

 

Definitely not getting fully to a posted left leg with that ankle pronation. Most elite players finish with a good amount of lead ankle supination due to forward momentum (and push off with ankle bones aligned with tibula). Your tall soft soles are actually serving as a good diagnostic here that you’re rolling the ankle inwards.

 

Edited to add: watching the face-on video, the left ankle action doesn’t look too bad, and you do finish in supination. So it could be all due to the shoes.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by GungHoGolf

[Soloman1]

You gotta go down before you can go up.

 

My take:

 

The lateral drop repositions for bottom of arc for irons and improves sequencing by limiting early rotational release of pelvis and torso and the dreaded over-the-top wipe-o-matic.

 

100+ tests with professional and elite amateurs shows dominant vertical force for a trail hand on top of grip. The more the grip is rotated to the trail side, the more rotational force is dominant.

 

The repositioning with the lead knee and femur in-line with the lead foot angle, the more force can be generated. More force down is good, much more force down is gooder for an on top grip. Just when you think it’s enough force down, do more if you like idea of more swing speed.

 

The pelvis rotates and releases as a reaction to the lead leg going down then up, so actively trying to rotate the pelvis before that is a power leak and not a source.

 

I could go on, but I’m sure that I’m doing all wrong . . .

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

Elite golfers typically max their vertical force somewhere between P5 and P6 - closer to P5 for the higher speed guys.

 

It’s hard to spot max vertical on video, but note that it happens at the instant the “fall” is finished and the lead leg STARTS pressing against the ground. As soon as the lead side starts rising and lead knee starts extending, vertical force starts dropping.

 

I know the shoes and left ankle stuff has been covered, but I just had to share a pic of this - ouch!

 

 

Definitely not getting fully to a posted left leg with that ankle pronation. Most elite players finish with a good amount of lead ankle supination due to forward momentum (and push off with ankle bones aligned with tibula).

 

 

The view of the motion is likely exacerbated by not having yhe shoes tied and having a squishy, high heel sole. But the motion is still there. 

 

I'm not well versed on what should be happening from p5 on except you want the lead leg straightening. But I think I've learned, in this thread, that I rely too much on upper body movements and don't leverage the lower body well enough in yhe downswing. 

 

Some toying on that coming soon...more emphasis on pushing up from that lead side starting at p5. 

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

You gotta go down before you can go up.

 

My take:

 

The lateral drop repositions for bottom of arc for irons and improves sequencing by limiting early rotational release of pelvis and torso and the dreaded over-the-top wipe-o-matic.

 

100+ tests with professional and elite amateurs shows dominant vertical force for a trail hand on top of grip. The more the grip is rotated to the trail side, the more rotational force is dominant.

 

The repositioning with the lead knee and femur in-line with the lead foot angle, the more force can be generated. More force down is good, much more force down is gooder for an on top grip. Just when you think it’s enough force down, do more if you like idea of more swing speed.

 

The pelvis rotates and releases as a reaction to the lead leg going down then up, so actively trying to rotate the pelvis before that is a power leak and not a source.

 

I could go on, but I’m sure that I’m doing all wrong . . .

That first line resonates. I've worked on the down part...don't think I ever fully understood the up part..especially WHEN the up starts. 

[GungHoGolf]

4 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

The view of the motion is likely exacerbated by not having yhe shoes tied and having a squishy, high heel sole. But the motion is still there. 

Yes, I edited my post to add that the ankle motion doesn’t look bad on the face on view, could be all shoes.

[Soloman1]

18 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

That first line resonates. I've worked on the down part...don't think I ever fully understood the up part..especially WHEN the up starts. 

 

As @GungHoGolf said, it varies.

 

You could go down more.

 

Try pushing up as soon as finish max going down and see what happens. The key is do it more. I'm sure you'll find the timing tailored to your strength. You'll find your "got it" moment.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Soloman1

[MK7Golf21]

You just have a lot of pieces that promote the hands to go out from the top, very fade biased swing and steep into the ball swing. Your stance is super wide open which promotes you spinning open everything from the top, throws the hands out pretty steep and across the ball. IMO, that is a simple fix to start with instead of all this complicated stuff.

 

Bubba watson plays with an open stance but he is also more up and down with the hand path and gets separation between his upper body and lower body on the downswing. Yours hips/shoulders move very together without hardly any tilt. 

 

I'd work on stance first of all, what you are doing with your stance isn't really helping with the pieces in your swing. 

 

 

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

As @GungHoGolf said, it varies.

 

You could go down more.

 

Try pushing up as soon as finish max going down and see what happens. The key is do it more. I'm sure you'll find the timing tailored to your strength. You'll find your "got it" moment.

I'm pretty sure I have my aha moment...vertical force at p5...this might be the missing link to why lowering was so spotty for me.

 

I want to try it out today, but I have a bum lead hand from work on less steepening the last 1.5 months. Need to shelve the game for a few weeks to let it heal.

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

You just have a lot of pieces that promote the hands to go out from the top, very fade biased swing and steep into the ball swing. Your stance is super wide open which promotes you spinning open everything from the top, throws the hands out pretty steep and across the ball. IMO, that is a simple fix to start with instead of all this complicated stuff.

 

Bubba watson plays with an open stance but he is also more up and down with the hand path and gets separation between his upper body and lower body on the downswing. Yours hips/shoulders move very together without hardly any tilt. 

 

I'd work on stance first of all, what you are doing with your stance isn't really helping with the pieces in your swing. 

 

 

I don't disagree with the stance element. But I've tried getting more square and my path gets in to out.  The only way I can consistently get path left is to open the stance. 

 

I am in between patterns right now. Old pattern

 

- open stance, forward Ball position, ball too far away from me, swing on foot line, a bit too much outside on the way back, face a bit hooded at address

 

New pattern

- squarer stance, ball much closer, ball position back 1 ball from old pattern, hands a bit more forward at address with square clubface...maybe evern slightly open, much closer to on plane (shaft plane) in backswing, deeper arms and hands, less steep in transition 

 

There's still a missing link and I think I've found it....a little more trail knee re-flex in transition and a much bigger push up from lead side at p5. I think those two moves will allow me to rotate even more and get my path left without bandaids. 

 

I've seen it in some practice. Just not consistent...and I think I know why. Now, just need my hand to heal. I'd love to get back to a more neutral stance...but it's the key toy fade right now...literally the key.

[blades_are_life]

6 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Here’s one more:

 

This shows it perfectly imo.

[MK7Golf21]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I don't disagree with the stance element. But I've tried getting more square and my path gets in to out.  The only way I can consistently get path left is to open the stance. 

 

I am in between patterns right now. Old pattern

 

- open stance, forward Ball position, ball too far away from me, swing on foot line, a bit too much outside on the way back, face a bit hooded at address

 

New pattern

- squarer stance, ball much closer, ball position back 1 ball from old pattern, hands a bit more forward at address with square clubface...maybe evern slightly open, much closer to on plane (shaft plane) in backswing, deeper arms and hands, less steep in transition 

 

There's still a missing link and I think I've found it....a little more trail knee re-flex in transition and a much bigger push up from lead side at p5. I think those two moves will allow me to rotate even more and get my path left without bandaids. 

 

I've seen it in some practice. Just not consistent...and I think I know why. Now, just need my hand to heal. I'd love to get back to a more neutral stance...but it's the key toy fade right now...literally the key.

 

I'd be interested in seeing a swing with a square stance and nothing else changes whenever it heals unless you have a swing on video from when you used to swing with a square stance? The only swings I've seen of yours are super open stances and it never looks right to me. 

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

I'd be interested in seeing a swing with a square stance and nothing else changes whenever it heals unless you have a swing on video from when you used to swing with a square stance? The only swings I've seen of yours are super open stances and it never looks right to me. 

I've been playing from an open stance since about 2017. I have some in v1 from working on stuff but I'd have to dig in and find them. Believe me, I want to get to a neutral setup position. But as soon as I try it on course I get the 2 way miss. I haven't figured it all out yet...but have been inching my way there the last 9 months. I'm close. This hand things is a minor setback. 

 

My swing has been a patchwork of compensations for a while. Got a launch monitor and Matt and net at home last year so now I have time to fix it rather than manage the patchwork...

Edited September 5, 2023 by getitdaily

[MK7Golf21]

6 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I've been playing from an open stance since about 2017. I have some in v1 from working on stuff but I'd have to dig in and find them. Believe me, I want to get to a neutral setup position. But as soon as I try it on course I get the 2 way miss. I haven't figured it all out yet...but have been inching my way there the last 9 months. I'm close. This hand things is a minor setback. 

 

My swing has been a patchwork of compensations for a while. Got a launch monitor and Matt and net at home last year so now I have time to fix it rather than manage the patchwork...

 

One of the reasons I hit balls very sparingly on a home mat vs grass at the range, seen so many people get joint issues. With that steep move and hitting balls trying all sorts of things on a mat, not a good combo.

 

My mat at home is for very slow movements and don't hit that many. I then take it to the grass range after the slow speed stuff.

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by MK7Golf21