SBST with toe hang putter??

[MannJ]

I have been considering trying to develop a straight back straight thru stroke though naturally I have an arcing, gating stroke. Since I started playing again, almost 2 years ago now, my putting has been a struggle. I’m about a 9 handicap I think, and I’m averaging about 35 putts per round, hitting about 6 or 7 greens per round. From everything I read I should have the putts down to 33 or 32 on average. I have rarely been lower than 34. 
So, I am wondering, is it counterproductive to try to putt SBST with anything other than a face balanced putter?

 I am most comfortable with blade putters…. 

[doctor220]

Trying to putt SBST is inherently counterproductive. The putting stroke is a tilted arc just like the full swing 

[Socrates]

2 Things:

- Missing 12 greens a round, you need to become a better chipper (chip the ball closer to the hole) to increase the one-putt number.

- Find a better putter.  Try every mallet style putter until you find one that gets 3-5 footers in the hole consistently.

 

Then your putts per round will drop and so will your handicap.

 

The putter design has no bearing on whether you arc the putter or not.  Contrary to whatever you might read.  Tons of PGA Tour players using mallets that arc their stroke.

[jonsnow]

1 hour ago, MannJ said:

I have been considering trying to develop a straight back straight thru stroke though naturally I have an arcing, gating stroke. Since I started playing again, almost 2 years ago now, my putting has been a struggle. I’m about a 9 handicap I think, and I’m averaging about 35 putts per round, hitting about 6 or 7 greens per round. From everything I read I should have the putts down to 33 or 32 on average. I have rarely been lower than 34. 
So, I am wondering, is it counterproductive to try to putt SBST with anything other than a face balanced putter?

 I am most comfortable with blade putters…. 

There are blades that are face balanced with a double bend shaft. Bobby Grace used to make one I really liked but I can't remember the model & don't know if it's still in production. EDIT: I think it was a retail version of this one & was stainless.

 

Edited September 22, 2023 by jonsnow

[doctor220]

20 minutes ago, Socrates said:

2 Things:

- Missing 12 greens a round, you need to become a better chipper (chip the ball closer to the hole) to increase the one-putt number.

- Find a better putter.  Try every mallet style putter until you find one that gets 3-5 footers in the hole consistently.

 

Then your putts per round will drop and so will your handicap.

 

The putter design has no bearing on whether you arc the putter or not.  Contrary to whatever you might read.  Tons of PGA Tour players using mallets that arc their stroke.

If they’re missing a bunch of greens, the ball striking is the problem, not their chipping. That is a backwards way of looking at the problem. 
 

if coach makes you run sprints bc you mouth off, the answer isn’t to get better at sprints, it’s to stop mouthing off. 

[Socrates]

1 minute ago, doctor220 said:

If they’re missing a bunch of greens, the ball striking is the problem, not their chipping. That is a backwards way of looking at the problem. 
 

if coach makes you run sprints bc you mouth off, the answer isn’t to get better at sprints, it’s to stop mouthing off. 

Fixing your chipping is far easier to do and they are more likely to practice it.  Fixing a swing is much harder and less likely to be successful.  No doubt, the OP could likely benefit from a better swing, but there is a low probability that they will achieve that, even with an excellent instructor.    Heck, if I can fix my dysfunctional chipping, anyone can and it shows immediate results.

[MattM97]

First you wouldn't be SBST, everyone has some arc no matter how straight they think/feel their stroke is.

 

Second, don't worry about which putter should/could/would work best for you. If you're rolling it end over end, can aim it and can control speed that's the putter for you regardless of toe hang, neck, size, etc. 

[MannJ]

I think I should be hitting more greens. I have my swing in a good place I thought, but it’s still getting grooved and it’s hard to have perspective. Any constructive criticism on the swing would be appreciated

[Socrates]

19 hours ago, MannJ said:

I think I should be hitting more greens. I have my swing in a good place I thought, but it’s still getting grooved and it’s hard to have perspective. Any constructive criticism on the swing would be appreciated

Surprised no one has commented, so I will dip my toe in...

Shut and flat takeaway.  Really shut at the top.  You save it on the way down.  Not quite sure about your hip and foot work, but you seem to get into a decent impact position.  At some point this will likely stop working and you will likely hit pull hooks.  Reminds me of me, 10 years ago before the talent/age ratio caught up to me and it stopped working.

[MannJ]

I assume by “shut” you mean clubface. I appreciate the input and will take a look at it. 
The flat is something I have always had. I’m pretty short and my swing developed that way. 
I hit 11 greens today and shot 87. I had 43 putts. 4 3. 
I think I will surrender and start mallet shopping. 

[Socrates]

17 hours ago, MannJ said:

I assume by “shut” you mean clubface. I appreciate the input and will take a look at it. 
The flat is something I have always had. I’m pretty short and my swing developed that way. 
I hit 11 greens today and shot 87. I had 43 putts. 4 3. 
I think I will surrender and start mallet shopping. 

Clubface is shut on takeaway and very shut at top.

 

43 putts.  That's seriously bad.  You should sign up for a putting lesson because something is really wrong to have that many putts unless your greens are rolling at 14-16 on the Stimp.

[Soloman1]

- Only 16% of people who think they have a SBST stroke actually do.

 

- Most people have the same stroke regardless of putter.

[MannJ]

12 hours ago, Socrates said:

Clubface is shut on takeaway and very shut at top.

 

43 putts.  That's seriously bad.  You should sign up for a putting lesson because something is really wrong to have that many putts unless your greens are rolling at 14-16 on the Stimp.

The greens were typical municipal. It was an amazing experience, the 43 putts.
I had 34 today with this ping kushin sigma g I have. Only hit 7 greens today though, but I am going to try to stick it out with this putter for a few months and see what happens. 
 

I appreciate you pointing out the flat swing. I think it’s caused some inconsistency in my ball striking despite my practicing. The closed clubface wasn’t good, but the flat swing is probably a more problematic. I am going to work on straightening out both things over the coming weeks. One thing that seemed to be difficult this evening was my club lagging so far inside on the way down. I can get a more upright plane, but the club wants to fall back there. Anyways, thanks again Socrates. 

[MelloYello]

On 9/22/2023 at 9:58 AM, MannJ said:

I have been considering trying to develop a straight back straight thru stroke though naturally I have an arcing, gating stroke. Since I started playing again, almost 2 years ago now, my putting has been a struggle. I’m about a 9 handicap I think, and I’m averaging about 35 putts per round, hitting about 6 or 7 greens per round. From everything I read I should have the putts down to 33 or 32 on average. I have rarely been lower than 34. 
So, I am wondering, is it counterproductive to try to putt SBST with anything other than a face balanced putter?

 I am most comfortable with blade putters…. 

 

 

A few thoughts from my end:

 

#1

To each their own--and you certainly know yourself better than I could--but be careful of what you "think" works for you. There was a time I would've said I didn't like mallets or 'preferred blade putters.' In the end, switching to a face-balanced putter (i.e. getting away from toe-hanging blades) did wonders for me and I haven't looked back. 

 

#2

SBST is actually a good feel even if nobody really does it. As others pointed out, all strokes arc BUT the majority of amateurs have their eyes too far inside the ball and thus they create way too much arc. So it's never a bad idea to try and minimize the arc. A casual rocking of the shoulders with your eyes just inside the line shouldn't produce much arc at all. 

 

#3

We do absolutely want to keep the face square through the entire stroke. It's just that the face is square to the arc. At no point during the stroke should you be introducing any additional face rotation if you can avoid it. This is how good putters get the ball on line so often. As long as your setup is correct, the face should return to basically the same position every time making it pretty easy to generate a good roll every single time.

 

#4

I agree with the others, the best way to make more putts (assuming you've done the above) would be to get it close. If you can keep your misses in the right spots, you should be able to chip it close almost every time. The trick to a good short game is be really, really efficient. It's not about getting up and down from the hardest spot. It's about getting up and down 80% of the time from the easy spots just off the green. Keep that in mind. If you can turn those little chips into 3-ft putts and do the above you'll bring your index down.  

[Socrates]

10 hours ago, MannJ said:

The greens were typical municipal. It was an amazing experience, the 43 putts.
I had 34 today with this ping kushin sigma g I have. Only hit 7 greens today though, but I am going to try to stick it out with this putter for a few months and see what happens. 
 

I appreciate you pointing out the flat swing. I think it’s caused some inconsistency in my ball striking despite my practicing. The closed clubface wasn’t good, but the flat swing is probably a more problematic. I am going to work on straightening out both things over the coming weeks. One thing that seemed to be difficult this evening was my club lagging so far inside on the way down. I can get a more upright plane, but the club wants to fall back there. Anyways, thanks again Socrates. 

Typical Muni greens can lead to missed putts especially if you are prone to dying the ball into the hole.  The ball will not keep its line.

 

"Fixing" a swing without proper guidance to lead to some disastrous results.  Can't emphasis enough the importance of getting a good instructor to guide you.  Been there, done that.

[DShepley]

Before every round for the next 10, and whenever you have 15 minutes, go to the practice green and drop 5 balls in a circle around the hole 2 feet from the cup.  Putt each ball in the hole and don't move to the next until you make it.  Repeat this and only this for 50 putts and go play your round.  When 2 footers get easy, move to 3 feet but don't move outside of 4 feet.  Report back in a month and tell us if you are a better putter.

 

[Santiago Golf]

21 hours ago, DShepley said:

Before every round for the next 10, and whenever you have 15 minutes, go to the practice green and drop 5 balls in a circle around the hole 2 feet from the cup.  Putt each ball in the hole and don't move to the next until you make it.  Repeat this and only this for 50 putts and go play your round.  When 2 footers get easy, move to 3 feet but don't move outside of 4 feet.  Report back in a month and tell us if you are a better putter.

 

 

50 putts from inside 3 feet for somebody that plays off 9 is really overkill and probably not the problem

 

Speed control is more important. Get your first putt closer. Get more short game shots inside 15 feet. Practicing putts inside 6 feet is great to work on alignment, path, face control, etc; but amateur golfers of all skills levels (scratch to 54) struggle with making a different length back swing when putting from distance. 

 

I rather see players practice putting towards a headcover or water bottle from 10, 20, 30 feet putts before a round. Maybe 3 putts from 3 feet, 3 from 5 feet, 3 from 8, 3 from 10, 3 from 20, 3 from 30. 20ish putts. 

 

Nobody can putt SBST consistently 

[DShepley]

58 minutes ago, Santiago Golf said:

 

50 putts from inside 3 feet for somebody that plays off 9 is really overkill and probably not the problem

 

Speed control is more important. Get your first putt closer. Get more short game shots inside 15 feet. Practicing putts inside 6 feet is great to work on alignment, path, face control, etc; but amateur golfers of all skills levels (scratch to 54) struggle with making a different length back swing when putting from distance. 

 

I rather see players practice putting towards a headcover or water bottle from 10, 20, 30 feet putts before a round. Maybe 3 putts from 3 feet, 3 from 5 feet, 3 from 8, 3 from 10, 3 from 20, 3 from 30. 20ish putts. 

 

Nobody can putt SBST consistently 

Try the experiment.  For a month, only practice inside 5 feet and do it a lot.  Watch the majority of your putts find the bottom of the cup.  Report back and tell me if you are a better putter after this....I willing to bet you are.

[Santiago Golf]

14 minutes ago, DShepley said:

Try the experiment.  For a month, only practice inside 5 feet and do it a lot.  Watch the majority of your putts find the bottom of the cup.  Report back and tell me if you are a better putter after this....I willing to bet you are.

 

I'm already a good putter considering the amount I practice currently, which is none. I will start practicing again in about a month, half the time I will hit putts just with bottom hand from 6 feet with tees and the other half practice speed control drills. 

[iacas]

On 9/24/2023 at 12:44 PM, Soloman1 said:

- Most people have the same stroke regardless of putter.

 

Yup.