Am.i the only one who thinks launch angles, spin, AoA, etc for chips is overkill info?

MattC555 · February 12

Around four years ago I started playing simulator golf in the winter. The immediate feedback on chips and pitches has had a positive effect on my game. The data is useful to me. In the same way all monitor data is useful. Exact carry, spin, consistency of my delivery, etc. It also allows short game practice when it is too cold and wet in New England to golf outdoors. I've found the most recent AOA discussion very interesting. Overkill for most? Sure. Helpful for some and important for better instruction? I think so. I saw Sahith Theegala hit this amazing low spinner with a flop swing from a short sided position in the rough to a down hill green. The announcers, including Kiz, were certain he was either going to hit a super high flop or just take his medicine. What he produced ended up 4 feet from the pin and was never higher than 5 feet off the ground. I would love to see the data on that one. It looked to me like a glitch in the Matrix tbh.

Edited February 14 by MattC555

Binson · February 12

On 2/10/2024 at 3:13 PM, getitdaily said:

Did you go to an instructor and that instructor just used a launch monitor to diagnose? Of did the instructor recommend a technique change and thr launch monitor validated it?

Or did you plop the monitor down and figure it out on your own?

I know this wasn't directed at me. But, just sharing my experience with how launch monitors helped with my chipping. In a way, it's quite similar to how it's helped me on other parts of my game.

I was a really good chipper on medium greens. Terrific directionally and great at rolling the ball really close. At the home course, I'm somewhat known as the scrambler.

When I played at higher end courses however, I found my technique to be lacking for the style of green. It wasn't even about having to land it shorter and letting it roll out more or trying to avoid being short-sided. I needed dramatically more stopping power.

Seeing the blueprint trackman numbers Joe Mayo laid out on his instagram, I headed to my local trackman facility. Got the baseline data on my 15 yard chip shot. It was around 2500 spin. Through trial and error, I was able to get to 6500 spin on a 15 yard chip shot by increasing spin loft and speed while maintaining similar launch. And now I have the ability to stop it on glassy greens at the higher end courses.

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If this is a skill you already have, maybe you don't need a launch monitor. If it's a skill you're trying to acquire, I think there's a lot of value to the launch monitor and data.

johnrobison · February 13

On 2/11/2024 at 2:58 PM, getitdaily said:

Nah, just the idea, not the people

I don’t buy that. An idea, in and of itself, isn’t pretentious. It’s the having of the idea that is.

TLUBulldogGolf · February 13

On 2/10/2024 at 3:06 PM, getitdaily said:

The general premise of this thread is that only the most elite of golfers benefit from using a launch monitor while chipping (and a lot of pitching).

Everyone else should

1. Get a lesson

2. Practice with a focus on landing spot with both ball forward and ball back setups.

I wouldn't harp on someone who used a LM while chipping. I just think using one for that is a bit pretentious.

It's overly technical more than pretentious to me, but it's just data at the end of the day. Can be helpful to understand what's happening if you aren't hitting the shot how you want to. It's easy for me to say I let the shot tell me what's happening, I know when I nip it correctly and when I don't and how to adjust to play the shot differently, along with understanding what the lie will allow for, but I've gotten to that point through years of playing.

Pepperturbo · February 13

On 2/10/2024 at 1:38 PM, virtuoso said:

Now that you’ve explained it, it seems so obvious what you meant.

If only that were truth. Plenty of knuckleheads here, that so happened to whack the ball around, can't chip.

Edited February 13 by Pepperturbo

virtuoso · February 13

8 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

If only that were truth. Plenty of knuckleheads here, that so happened to whack the ball around and can't chip.

Preach it, my friend.

Dewdman42 · February 15

Learning about D-Plane last summer fundamentally improved my golf drastically. I realize some people are more or less cerebral than others. Apparently I am, because it really made a substantial difference for me to have that visualization and understanding.

This year I plan to dive deep into attack angle, spin loft, compression, shaft lean, etc.. for similar reasons..it's a nuance of golf I have never thought much about I have always been a mid capper just trying to hit clean shots. But thanks to my new D-plane concept I am actually hitting clean shots much more often now and I'm ready to explore nuances related to AoA, dynamic loft (through shaft lean), etc...exploring the extremes and finding a feel for it in in the end, but for me, I need to think cerebrally about it first to get anywhere otherwise I feel completely random. Yea...I think this kind of stuff is very useful for the right mind, but I think som people definitely can't think that way and they probably didn't do well in high school geometry class either, and that's fine, different strokes for different folks.

virtuoso · February 15

3 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

Learning about D-Plane last summer fundamentally improved my golf drastically. I realize some people are more or less cerebral than others. Apparently I am, because it really made a substantial difference for me to have that visualization and understanding.

This year I plan to dive deep into attack angle, spin loft, compression, shaft lean, etc.. for similar reasons..it's a nuance of golf I have never thought much about I have always been a mid capper just trying to hit clean shots. But thanks to my new D-plane concept I am actually hitting clean shots much more often now and I'm ready to explore nuances related to AoA, dynamic loft (through shaft lean), etc...exploring the extremes and finding a feel for it in in the end, but for me, I need to think cerebrally about it first to get anywhere otherwise I feel completely random. Yea...I think this kind of stuff is very useful for the right mind, but I think som people definitely can't think that way and they probably didn't do well in high school geometry class either, and that's fine, different strokes for different folks.

Changing spin loft once, let alone “on command” is next level. Good luck with your project. I’ll be interested to hear your findings.

Dewdman42 · February 15

36 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Changing spin loft once, let alone “on command” is next level. Good luck with your project. I’ll be interested to hear your findings.

I hear ya. That's why it's a period of exploration for me at this point. If you stick with only one kind of spin loft, what is it? Do you go for spinnier, or compressier? In either case, what are you doing to achieve your standard shot you feel is usually the right one to make...are you going for steeper AoA or shallower? shaft lean? And how are you arriving at the shaft lean?

It's exploration at this point because currently I don't know what I'm getting exactly in terms of spin loft, I haven't eve had a monitor to spend a lot of time with, but I don't think my AoA is consistent honestly. I need to spend more time with a monitor to find out for sure.

Exploring extremes is a good way to dial in consistency ultimately and at least gain a feel for either end of the AoA spectrum. I see people on You tube all the time that are literally trying to declare what their measured AoA will be before they swing and they don't always hit it exactly but they certain get in the ballpark...but they don't really say what they are doing specifically in each case to manipulate their angle of attack or as is the case with you, attempt to keep your AoA consistent.

Anyway I am completely blind about my AoA and that has a direct impact on both compression and spin, somewhat inversely to each other. So the only way to find out if I am in the ballpark or not is by testing the extremes, ideally the "right" way, whatever that is...and perhaps also exploring the grey area in the middle to find the happy place.

I think in the end, my first goal will be in fact to just have a more consistent AoA, shaft lean and predictable ball flight and distance. And hopefully that will be with as much compression as I can get, without giving up too much ball spin. After that later on I see no reason not to get proficient at working the ball compression or spin on demand just like you might work it for side spin.

Edited February 15 by Dewdman42

virtuoso · February 15

Sorry, I went off topic for this thread. The above response is great for the thread you started, but we should probably leave this one to people arguing about data collection for short game.