Am.i the only one who thinks launch angles, spin, AoA, etc for chips is overkill info?

[doctor220]

1 minute ago, getitdaily said:

Do you use a launch monitor for chipping practice?

Yes I have when I am trying to improve my pitching. It showed me that I am too shallow AoA wise in general, launch it too high and generally spin it too little. 

as said above, pitching vs chipping is a huge difference. No one is using a launch monitor greenside for their 8 iron that flies 5 yards and runs 20 

 

Edited February 10 by doctor220

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

Yes I have when I am trying to improve my pitching. It showed me that I am too shallow AoA wise in general, launch it too high and generally spin it too little. 

as said above, pitching vs chipping is a huge difference. No one is using a launch monitor greenside for their 8 iron that flies 5 yards and runs 20 

 

And what was wrong with your technique? What did you do to fix it? Why did it take a launch monitor for you to see that your technique was faulty? 

[doctor220]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

And what was wrong with your technique? What did you do to fix it? Why did it take a launch monitor for you to see that your technique was faulty? 

Nothing is wrong it’s just not ideal. You’re looking at this so black and white when it’s shades of gray. 
 

trying to move in a way that presents more spin loft to the ball , ie more down AoA while not delofting face as much. 
 

idk how you think you can see this stuff with the naked eye. It’s pretty hard to tell if you’re launching a 15 yd shot at 29 degree or 33. I can’t really eyeball that. It’s also hard to tell spin rates when green firmess can also vastly influence how big of a bounce the ball takes or how even simply the length of grass you are pitching from can massively effect spin rates 

[getitdaily]

5 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

Nothing is wrong it’s just not ideal. You’re looking at this so black and white when it’s shades of gray. 
 

trying to move in a way that presents more spin loft to the ball , ie more down AoA while not delofting face as much. 
 

idk how you think you can see this stuff with the naked eye. It’s pretty hard to tell if you’re launching a 15 yd shot at 29 degree or 33. I can’t really eyeball that. It’s also hard to tell spin rates when green firmess can also vastly influence how big of a bounce the ball takes or how even simply the length of grass you are pitching from can massively effect spin rates 

Did you go to an instructor and that instructor just used a launch monitor to diagnose? Of did the instructor recommend a technique change and thr launch monitor validated it? 

 

Or did you plop the monitor down and figure it out on your own?

[virtuoso]

It’s interesting watching you guys find nuanced and inventive ways to disagree with each other.

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

It’s interesting watching you guys find nuanced and inventive ways to disagree with each other.

What else are Saturdays, post golf, boys are playing at the park for?

 

It's social media at its finest.

[virtuoso]

Just now, getitdaily said:

What else are Saturdays, post golf, boys are playing at the park for?

 

It's social media at its finest.

Tru dat.

[Pepperturbo]

44 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

Says the so called 3 handicap or whatever. Idk it’s just strange you guys think you have a monopoly on what is helpful or not. You have elite players choosing to use this info. Do you think they know more about if it’s beneficial for them or you? I’ll take hovlands opinion. 
 

the short game is not instinctual at all, especially as the motions for good full swings and hitting soft pitch shots are basically totally opposite so I don’t get this garbage about it being intuitive or that good players can somehow figure it out. 
 

Sure maybe if you’re used to dumping the club at impact and hitting weak bloopers then hitting soft pitches may be totally natural but it’s not really common for good players to hit full shots like that

Are you rude just because it becomes you or did you inherit it???   

 

Amazing, I said, it does NOTHING for a feel player like me.  I never said it wouldn't help you, I don't even know you.  If you need a LM for PW, or other wedges, what can I say, other than I don't?  If you need it, and have the skill to apply what it says to the ball, great.  Nonetheless, if you don't use the same ball all the time, and practice like Hovland, or me, it's NOT going to do a damn bit of good for you, but keep hoping.  I practice with my wedges, nearly every day since taking up golf.

 

If you don't regularly use a LM, then arguing as if, well, make this exchange a waste of time.  Now, get out there and put in the thousands of hours, like me, and maybe you too will find a better short game.

Edited February 10 by Pepperturbo

[virtuoso]

8 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Are you rude just because it becomes you or did you inherit it???   Amazing, I said, it does NOTHING for a feel player like me.  I never said it wouldn't help you, I don't even know you. 

Actually you said it categorically wouldn’t help for shots around the green.

[Pepperturbo]

7 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Actually you said it categorically wouldn’t help for shots around the green.

Yes, but that statement doesn't include every person on the planet.  It's my opinion.  Plus I did NOT direct that statement at anyone specific.  To make it specific, a person has to personalize the words, but If you then know it works for YOU, you can exclude yourself.   Re-read the thread title.  I responded to that.

 

It certainly would be an improvement on social media, if people could read without personalizing what's said.

Edited February 10 by Pepperturbo

[doctor220]

15 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Are you rude just because it becomes you or did you inherit it???   

 

Amazing, I said, it does NOTHING for a feel player like me.  I never said it wouldn't help you, I don't even know you.  If you need a LM for PW, or other wedges, what can I say, other than I don't?  If you need it, and have the skill to apply what it says to the ball, great.  Nonetheless, if you don't use the same ball all the time, and practice like Hovland, or me, it's NOT going to do a damn bit of good for you, but keep hoping.  I practice with my wedges, nearly every day since taking up golf.

 

If you don't regularly use a LM, then arguing as if, well, make this exchange a waste of time.  Now, get out there and put in the thousands of hours, like me, and maybe you too will find a better short game.

My point isn’t to make this a pissing match about playing ability but I just find it funny you present yourself like you have the greatest short game on earth. Ya I’ve hit lots of wedges in my life too but I don’t mind some help from a computer if it’ll help me get it into the hole in less shots, which is the goal after all for competitive players. 
 

 

[johnrobison]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Those folks are just trying to have a chance at a putt...usually from 20+ feet after the chip. Knowing launch and spin data for that shot, for these folks, wouldn't do squat for helping them hit it closer...because their technique is wrong...almost always. 

Are we talking about whether it's useful info for those folks? I thought we were talking about whether you find it useful for yourself, and then at what skill level is the information helpful. Your first post was about what you focus on and anything more than that is a chore. "Those folks" are like someone who can't get off the tee box or who thin and fat every iron. LM data won't help on their full swing, either, and I think we'll all agree to that. If they're chipping 20+ feet from the hole, of course LM data isn't necessary. But I didn't think that's who we're talking about.

[Pepperturbo]

Just now, doctor220 said:

My point isn’t to make this a pissing match about playing ability but I just find it funny you present yourself like you have the greatest short game on earth. Ya I’ve hit lots of wedges in my life too but I don’t mind some help from a computer if it’ll help me get it into the hole in less shots, which is the goal after all for competitive players. 
 

 

You don't want a pissing match, yet you infer I think my short game is "greatest on earth".   I am not convinced of that at all.  The reason why I practice nearly every day with PW, SW and LW.  And been doing that since taking up golf in the 90s.  I have been playing competitive in regional events, fifteen years of Interclub match play on two different teams, and pvt $$$ games since early 2003.    

 

My short game is "+" level.  What saves my score nearly every round is PW, SW or LW getting the ball close for tap in par or birdie.  Sorry, but I don't need a LM to improve my short game, or card respectable scores.  But if that's your thing, fine by me.  I am going to the gym and then practice for a bit.  Have a pleasant day.

[getitdaily]

11 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

Are we talking about whether it's useful info for those folks? I thought we were talking about whether you find it useful for yourself, and then at what skill level is the information helpful. Your first post was about what you focus on and anything more than that is a chore. "Those folks" are like someone who can't get off the tee box or who thin and fat every iron. LM data won't help on their full swing, either, and I think we'll all agree to that. If they're chipping 20+ feet from the hole, of course LM data isn't necessary. But I didn't think that's who we're talking about.

The general premise of this thread is that only the most elite of golfers benefit from using a launch monitor while chipping (and a lot of pitching).

 

Everyone else should

 

1. Get a lesson

2. Practice with a focus on landing spot with both ball forward and ball back setups.

 

I wouldn't harp on someone who used a LM while chipping. I just think using one for that is a bit pretentious. 

Edited February 10 by getitdaily

[virtuoso]

57 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Yes, but that statement doesn't include every person on the planet.  It's my opinion.  Plus I did NOT direct that statement at anyone specific.  To make it specific, a person has to personalize the words, but If you then know it works for YOU, you can exclude yourself.   Re-read the thread title.  I responded to that.

 

It certainly would be an improvement on social media, if people could read without personalizing what's said.

Now that you’ve explained it, it seems so obvious what you meant.

[johnrobison]

50 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

The general premise of this thread is that only the most elite of golfers benefit from using a launch monitor while chipping (and a lot of pitching).

 

Everyone else should

 

1. Get a lesson

2. Practice with a focus on landing spot with both ball forward and ball back setups.

 

I wouldn't harp on someone who used a LM while chipping. I just think using one for that is a bit pretentious. 

I just can't grasp why you don't apply the same approach to putting, then.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

The general premise of this thread is that only the most elite of golfers benefit from using a launch monitor while chipping (and a lot of pitching)

 

Next thread you start you might want to consider a little bit more accurate title and OP - likely would've saved a lot of posters a lot of time.

[getitdaily]

5 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Next thread you start you might want to consider a little bit more accurate title and OP - likely would've saved a lot of posters a lot of time.

Nah. That premise was identified on page 1. People don't read. Not my problem they spent their time in the thread but didn't read first.

[Nels55]

10 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Next thread you start you might want to consider a little bit more accurate title and OP - likely would've saved a lot of posters a lot of time.

LOL I don't think that will happen.  After all the OP got what he wanted in this thread...

[iacas]

5 hours ago, getitdaily said:

There is no level of SAM PuttLab data that is going to help you if you cannot proficiently putt well already. 

 

FTFY. (FWIW I don't agree with that, either.)

 

5 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Open/close the putter face 1 degree from 10 feet and you miss. That's very easy to understand. Having face angle data can help.

 

You can't see that you pushed it or pulled it? You need a SAM for that? (Note: I also own a SAM. And a Capto or two.)

 

5 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Launching the ball at 25* instead of 40* (or whatever is optimal)...not valuable when you can simply see how far you landed the ball and how far it ran out.

 

Can't you also just see where your putt rolled?

 

There's more to chipping than "did I hit my spot?" and "did it roll out the right amount?"

 

What if a player can do that 1 out of 3 times. What is different about the other two?

 

5 hours ago, doctor220 said:

it’s really really weird and nonsensical  to say you think SAM is invaluable but that LMs can’t help at all with the short game. 

 

Yep.

 

4 hours ago, PedronNiall said:

Next time just title your thread something along the lines of "Here's what I think. Please only comment if you agree." Would save everyone a whole lot of time since you have no interest in good faith discussion, trying to remotely understand anyone else's point of view, or accepting anything that doesn't align with you feelings on the matter.

 

Sounds a lot like some of his other topics.

 

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Go to a course. Take a launch monitor. Approach people chipping. Find someone who says yes when you ask them if they'd like to chip better by using a launch monitor. 

 

Quantity results with weekend players and then come tell me about it. If you can provide proof that launch monitor data is useful for improving chipping rather than technique and setup then I'll chnage my mind....for weekend golfers.

 

But if you go tell any...ANY weekend golfer that they launched the ball too low (when only compared to data, not visual feedback) and expect them to be able to improve because you gave them data then I'll make a post saying you're the best instructor in the world.

 

I've given chipping lessons with a launch monitor. Depending on what the student is struggling with… a launch monitor just quantifies what you can't quite feel or see. It's much faster than just hitting a bunch of balls and trying to see the results.

 

Let's say you're working on AoA. A student can try different setups, different release feels, whatever… and instantly see what their AoA was. When they find a feel that produces the right stuff, then they can dial in their distance/feel/touch.

 

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

There's already about 100 years of proof that setup and technique provide all that's necessary to get good, even really good at chipping.

 

We haven't had LMs for 100 years. So again…

 

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

There's already about 100 years of proof that setup and technique provide all that's necessary to get good, even really good at putting.

 

FTFY.

 

3 hours ago, Nels55 said:

If you have not done it then you don't know if it will be of any use to you.

 

Literally ignorant to whether it's helpful or not. And if he's a decent chipper, it may not be super useful to him right now.

 

2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

You really don't realize how incredibly inconsistent that is ?

 

It's very inconsistent.

 

Launch Monitors tell us what's real. I had a guy, a 12 handicap maybe, swinging 12° out (right). His feel wasn't real, and so I had a LM running so he knew "oh, that was still 7° right, I need to feel this particular thing even more." People don't know what 2° down or 8° down are like in chipping. They might know one was more down than the other (some won't, though). So it's useful to be able to show them, immediately, so they can start to understand "feeling x produces y."

 

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

I wouldn't harp on someone who used a LM while chipping. I just think using one for that is a bit pretentious. 

 

Now it's pretentious? Wow. Okay.

[nsxguy]

21 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Nah. That premise was identified on page 1. People don't read. Not my problem they spent their time in the thread but didn't read first.

 

For better or worse, posters come in at all different times and the only thing you can be (relatively) sure they read is the title and the OP.

 

People don't read ? Slight correction. People don't read the entire thread. And shouldn't need to in order to get the gist of what's being discussed.

[getitdaily]

29 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

For better or worse, posters come in at all different times and the only thing you can be (relatively) sure they read is the title and the OP.

 

People don't read ? Slight correction. People don't read the entire thread. And shouldn't need to in order to get the gist of what's being discussed.

Well, we wouldn't have as much of the back and forth banter if people read, so there's that. 

[GolfTurkey]

Apart from other uses, I would like to use a LM to help figure out how to hit a high / flop shot cross-handed or whether I’d be wasting my time trying (maybe it’s too hard getting the necessary CHS).

 

My chipping has never been better since going cross-handed but there are only a smattering of videos on how to chip that way and none on how to hit a flop CH (last I looked).

 

Maybe my AoA is too steep and that pulls down the launch, maybe dynamic loft is too low and maybe it’s both. Sure wouldn’t hurt having a LM around when trying to play around with those parameters.

[skim4]

I never thought about using mine for chipping before this thread. 
now I think it could be pretty fun and interesting. 
Are there big differences in the data hitting off mat vs. Bermuda for chipping? 
 

Edited February 11 by skim4

[Hawkeye77]

22 hours ago, getitdaily said:

 

I wouldn't harp on someone who used a LM while chipping. I just think using one for that is a bit pretentious. 

You’ve harped on it endlessly and someone just explained why it has value for him and others as well - they aren’t pretentious - no need to default to unfair characterizations. 
 

Information always has value - how much and how relevant to another isn’t for you to tell them.  

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye77 said:

You’ve harped on it endlessly and someone just explained why it has value for him and others as well - they aren’t pretentious - no need to default to unfair characterizations. 
 

Information always has value - how much and how relevant to another isn’t for you to tell them.  

Pretentious...expressive of unwarranted importance.  

 

People.can make their own choice. My opinion is using it is overkill and useless. 

[johnrobison]

58 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Pretentious...expressive of unwarranted importance.  

 

People.can make their own choice. My opinion is using it is overkill and useless. 

...and that those who claim it's useful to them are actually just pretentious??

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Pretentious...expressive of unwarranted importance.  

 

People.can make their own choice. My opinion is using it is overkill and useless. 

 

Are you sure ?

 

I mean this is only the 6th time you've said it - 7th if you count the title.

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, johnrobison said:

...and that those who claim it's useful to them are actually just pretentious??

Nah, just the idea, not the people 

[getitdaily]

25 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Are you sure ?

 

I mean this is only the 6th time you've said it - 7th if you count the title.

Redundantly positive

 

Just in case someone started reading at this post...lol

Edited February 11 by getitdaily