Ball weirdly diving from the air. Club or used balls?

[sfdoddsy]

I’ve been enjoying the Ping G430 Max 10.5 driver for a while. Distance has been good, but Trackman testing suggested it was slightly higher launching and spinning than was ideal.

 

So I’ve been trying out a G430 LST 9, adjusted to 10. Mostly I’ve been hitting it really well. It feels a touch longer and lower. Trackman was inconclusive, with launch and spin about the same for both.

 

However, every now and again I’ve hit drives with a really odd flight.

 

They launch and sound ok, and start drawing (my usual shot), but suddenly swerve right and drop from the sky about 50 yards short of my usual distance.

 

I have a strongly positive angle of attack and am naturally lowish spin so I figured maybe it was occasionally too low spin, but the initial flight doesn’t look or feel spinless.

 

I’ve been unable to duplicate the issue in indoor Trackman sessions. Ball speed is around 135-140, launch is around 15, spin is around 2200, smash is around 1.47.

 

However, my Trackman session was not with the same balls that flew weird. I’m cheap so I buy used Pro V1s, but the session was with a different batch of Pro V1s.

 

And I’ve one or two weird shots with 8 irons dropping from the sky, so I am wondering if this could be a bad batch of balls.

 

The seller is reasonably trustworthy, but makes no claims on provenance. So they could have been underwater for a while.

 

Switching to some Callaway Supersoft has proven uneventful.

 

So, blame the club, the occasional odd swing, or suss balls?

 

 

 

 

[MisterT]

I would suspect bad balls. If they are "refinished" Pro V1s, you have no idea what is underneath. If they are just used Pro V1s, then you run the risk of water balls as you noted. Significant scuffs and scrapes (larger than a dame or about 2cm) can also affect performance. 

[HateTheHighDraw]

Bad balls or mishit that knocked a ton of spin off 

[st1800e]

On 3/7/2024 at 7:23 AM, sfdoddsy said:

I’ve been unable to duplicate the issue in indoor Trackman sessions.

Trackman can’t track the flight of the ball indoors.  It’s a calculation.  
Typically a bad driver will be different on every shot.  
 

Since what you’re seeing happens~200 yards away, I’d say as the ball speed declines a defect in the ball overtakes the speed and spin you've put on it.  
 

Other than being cheap (frugal) I don’t know why you play a “used”ball. You’ve seen some obvious faults from the recycled balls, there also may be some faults that are not as evident , but affecting your game.  And supersoft is not a quality ball , has inconsistent properties.  
 

You’d be better off with Maxfli, or even Kirkland if you don’t want to pony up for top of line balls.  

[Stuart_G]

If a ball is bad internally - you'd only usually see a drop in ball speed - not abnormal aerodynamics.   "Weird" aerodynamics are really only going to be caused by surface defects in the dimples or actual cracks in the ball.   Both of which would be pretty evident with just a visual inspection of the ball.

 

Second - nothing will cause a ball to start drawing with a gentle curve to the left (I'm assuming you're right handed?)  and then suddenly curve back to the right - except maybe a very strong gust of wind or other outside force.   Even balls with screwed up surfaces will have some consistency in how they curve and how that curve might change through the flight (e.g. cork screw like motion).

 

I'm guessing it might be just starting left and then curving back to the right - which is indicative of a heel strike.   But that's only a guess.

 

On 3/25/2024 at 8:37 PM, st1800e said:

Trackman can’t track the flight of the ball indoors.  It’s a calculation.  

 

And more importantly it doesn't calculate well the gear effect and what happens to the spin axis with off-center impacts.

 

Which brings us back to a high possibility of face impact problem.     Foot powder spray is what should be used to test and judge that during any practice session (with or without trackman).

[Shallowface]

40 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

If a ball is bad internally - you'd only usually see a drop in ball speed - not abnormal aerodynamics.   "Weird" aerodynamics are really only going to be caused by surface defects in the dimples or actual cracks in the ball.   Both of which would be pretty evident with just a visual inspection of the ball.

 

Second - nothing will cause a ball to start drawing with a gentle curve to the left (I'm assuming you're right handed?)  and then suddenly curve back to the right - except maybe a very strong gust of wind or other outside force.   Even balls with screwed up surfaces will have some consistency in how they curve and how that curve might change through the flight (e.g. cork screw like motion).

 

I'm guessing it might be just starting left and then curving back to the right - which is indicative of a heel strike.   But that's only a guess.

 

 

And more importantly it doesn't calculate well the gear effect and what happens to the spin axis with off-center impacts.

 

Which brings us back to a high possibility of face impact problem.     Foot powder spray is what should be used to test and judge that during any practice session (with or without trackman).

I used to occasionally visit an "aqua range" with floating golf balls and on my final visit there I hit a number of those that curved two ways in flight, significantly so, and not due to wind.  While I didn't inspect each ball before hitting it I suspect those balls were compromised internally somehow.

 

That range is now out of business. 

 

 

Edited March 27 by Shallowface

[TheShark1]

I had this occur once with my driver. Some of the drives were bombs and others would have crazy flights. After a few of these crazy shots I looked at the face and it was slightly collapsed. It was hard to see, but I put the edge of my phone against it to use as a straight edge on the range and sure enough it was a little collapsed. 

[grochol17]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

Second - nothing will cause a ball to start drawing with a gentle curve to the left (I'm assuming you're right handed?)  and then suddenly curve back to the right - except maybe a very strong gust of wind or other outside force.   Even balls with screwed up surfaces will have some consistency in how they curve and how that curve might change through the flight (e.g. cork screw like motion).

 

I've seen this quite a bit with worn range balls.  If they've been so used that they are starting to become smooth, then they will sometimes start curving one way then change direction pretty significantly mid flight.  But, I am talking about balls that are so worn that no one in their right mind would put them into play on the course.  I guess it is also possible that they were so old they happened to crack when I hit them, but I think the (lack of) aerodynamics is the most likely the issue.

 

Assuming the OP isn't hitting smooth golf balls, I wonder if it is possible they periodically get such low spin that they are effectively hitting knuckle balls, which would exhibit some really odd flight. 

[Stuart_G]

20 minutes ago, grochol17 said:

 

I've seen this quite a bit with worn range balls.

 

I didn't say they can't change direction.   But the change is "constant" through the whole flight (like a slow cork screw like motion that usually is stopped by the ground before it goes through a full revolution).   A spinning ball - no matter how imperfect the surface - can only create a single relative force and that can't change in flight.   If that force is asymmetric, the force will "rotate" in an absolute sense - but it will continue to rotate through the whole flight until the spin decays to the point where the force is small or it hits the ground.   Gravity can mask or distort this "constant" change - but it's really an illusion.   Think of it as an extension to Newton's first law.   An object in motion will stay in motion until acted upon by an outside force.

 

So a nice gentle draw will never just suddenly turn into a hard slice.

 

But that doesn't change the main point I was trying to make - is that for that type of crazy aerodynamics, the damage to the ball is going to be obvious just looking at the ball - or even sometimes it can be evident by feel when holding it in your hand.  If that were the case, the OP wouldn't have any doubt about the cause.

Edited March 27 by Stuart_G

[st1800e]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

nothing will cause a ball to start drawing with a gentle curve to the left (I'm assuming you're right handed?)  and then suddenly curve back to the right - except maybe a very strong gust of wind or other outside force. 

Actually I’ve seen it , occasionally recently, poor quality balls, or some reclaimed balls.  I suspect off balance , not concentric weight. As another example  years ago, Maxfli Master comes to mind which I played for a season or two.  Some of those balls would wobble in flight and or change direction mid flight. A gust of wind wasn’t a factor.  
 

Maybe  you you’ve  never seen it.  That doesn’t mean it never happens.  I’m just reporting what I’ve seen.  
 

And yes I’ve experienced a failed driver as well. It would cause a variety of flights, some normal, others a variety of heights and directions not attributable to “bad swings”.  Not a change in direction during flight.   
 

[robin_w]

Spin too low?