Ball Speed: 8 iron vs. Driver. Smaller Difference than Expected?

[ricknoberts]

Hello All,

 

I wanted to see if the community could provide some help for an issue I *think* I'm having. I have a Skytrak (original) since last fall. I've started to use it more regularly this year, and I've noticed that my distances with my short irons seem quite impressive while my driver ball speed and distance seems to be lagging significantly. I was fitted for all of the clubs. Irons are i500s w/ DG 105 stiff shafts. My driver is a G400 Max w/ a Ping Tour stiff shaft at 10.5 set at 9.5* The pictures below note strikes with my 8 iron and driver respectively. I didn't use foot spray, but most certainly felt like center strikes (face and path obviously not always perfect). Included one spinner on the driver for extra info.

 

My 8-iron ball speeds were as follows: 117, 113, 117, 116. Average spin was around 5700 RPM w/ a 24-25* launch on average

Driver ball speeds were as follows: 143, 148, 145, 150. Three had spin of 1800-2000 RPM w/ launches of 16, 16, 13, and 15*

 

That seems like a really small delta between the two clubs, does it not? The Skytrak is in a protected case and is level with the hitting mat. 

 

I'm using these tees I got from Amazon as they are pliable. Is it possible they are affecting ball speed? 

 

Amazon.com : Ruyshu Golf Simulator Tees, Indoor Golf Tees for Simulator, Plastic Practice Golf Mat Tees for Winter Turf and Driving Range(Yellow) : Sports & Outdoors

 

 

Thank you for any info you can provide. 

[Red4282]

Are your irons by chance power spec? (Stronger lofts) for 82 mph, that is quite high BS.

[ricknoberts]

48 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Are your irons by chance power spec? (Stronger lofts) for 82 mph, that is quite high BS.

They are not. Standard lofts.

[hammergolf]

2 hours ago, ricknoberts said:

Hello All,

 

I wanted to see if the community could provide some help for an issue I *think* I'm having. I have a Skytrak (original) since last fall. I've started to use it more regularly this year, and I've noticed that my distances with my short irons seem quite impressive while my driver ball speed and distance seems to be lagging significantly. I was fitted for all of the clubs. Irons are i500s w/ DG 105 stiff shafts. My driver is a G400 Max w/ a Ping Tour stiff shaft at 10.5 set at 9.5* The pictures below note strikes with my 8 iron and driver respectively. I didn't use foot spray, but most certainly felt like center strikes (face and path obviously not always perfect). Included one spinner on the driver for extra info.

 

My 8-iron ball speeds were as follows: 117, 113, 117, 116. Average spin was around 5700 RPM w/ a 24-25* launch on average

Driver ball speeds were as follows: 143, 148, 145, 150. Three had spin of 1800-2000 RPM w/ launches of 16, 16, 13, and 15*

 

That seems like a really small delta between the two clubs, does it not? The Skytrak is in a protected case and is level with the hitting mat. 

 

I'm using these tees I got from Amazon as they are pliable. Is it possible they are affecting ball speed? 

 

Amazon.com : Ruyshu Golf Simulator Tees, Indoor Golf Tees for Simulator, Plastic Practice Golf Mat Tees for Winter Turf and Driving Range(Yellow) : Sports & Outdoors

 

 

Thank you for any info you can provide. 

You’re “over efficient” with your irons. 1.42 is really high efficiency or “smash factor” for a short iron. Also remember the loft on your “8” iron essentially makes it a 6 iron compared to standard lofted irons. The modern hollow faced irons with lower lofts, higher launch, and lower spin achieve a launch condition that used to call a “flier”. This leads to high shots with low spin that just go forever.
With your driver, you’re actually very close to optimal. You may be losing a few yards off your driver due to spin being too low, but it’s not much. The lower spin is surprising because the G400 Max is known to be a bit spinny. Could also be strike location. If your contact is high on the face, you can get some “vertical gear effect” that costs a bit of ball speed, gives a higher launch but with lower spin. Hard to tell without attack angle and strike location, but those are a couple possible things costing you a few yards off your driver. But that being said you’re pretty close to optimal driver numbers. Maybe a more centered strike will give you a touch more speed, less launch, and a touch more spin, but even with that you would only pick up another 3-5yds of carry on perfect shots.

Edited June 16 by hammergolf

[Valtiel]

3 hours ago, hammergolf said:

You’re “over efficient” with your irons. 

Yeah I think there are a couple things at play here and an 8-iron that is a hollow distance iron design spinning at 5,850 is definitely one of them. Combine that with the fact that your ball flight is pretty consistently a strong draw (bordering on rope-y for an 8iron) and you're just getting absolutely maxed out distance numbers from your irons. Your driver meanwhile does not have this same shot shape pattern, and spin occasionally varies in ways that suggest you have some vertical strike issues. 1,900-3,600 spin is very wide and the latter suggests a low strike when we also note the poorer efficiency (1.44 smash factor compared to 1.47-1.50 with the others). 

Because you're producing 6i spin with an 8i that is lofted like a traditional 7i you're getting bigger iron distance than normal, and because you're swinging around 100mph with the driver and only spinning around 2,000 on what I assume are good strikes, you're actually losing some distance via shorter carry because that isn't enough spin at that speed. So you iron numbers are "overly efficient" as hammergolf said, and your driver numbers are slightly inefficient, creating the bunching you're seeing. 

At around 100mph clubhead speed with the driver you're best fit into something at 10.5* or higher that can produce spin in the high 2,000's. At 1,900rpm spin you need to be moving the ball 180mph+ to get max carry out of that, otherwise that ball is falling out of the air too soon. Good if the turf is hard and you want a lot of run, bad if it's anything normal to soft.  

Edited June 16 by Valtiel

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Yeah I think there are a couple things at play here and an 8-iron that is a hollow distance iron design spinning at 5,850 is definitely one of them. Combine that with the fact that your ball flight is pretty consistently a strong draw (bordering on rope-y for an 8iron) and you're just getting absolutely maxed out distance numbers from your irons. Your driver meanwhile does not have this same shot shape pattern, and spin occasionally varies in ways that suggest you have some vertical strike issues. 1,900-3,600 spin is very wide and the latter suggests a low strike when we also note the poorer efficiency (1.44 smash factor compared to 1.47-1.50 with the others). 

Because you're producing 6i spin with an 8i that is lofted like a traditional 7i you're getting bigger iron distance than normal, and because you're swinging around 100mph with the driver and only spinning around 2,000 on what I assume are good strikes, you're actually losing some distance via shorter carry because that isn't enough spin at that speed. So you iron numbers are "overly efficient" as hammergolf said, and your driver numbers are slightly inefficient, creating the bunching you're seeing. 

At around 100mph clubhead speed with the driver you're best fit into something at 10.5* or higher that can produce spin in the high 2,000's. At 1,900rpm spin you need to be moving the ball 180mph+ to get max carry out of that, otherwise that ball is falling out of the air too soon. Good if the turf is hard and you want a lot of run, bad if it's anything normal to soft.  

 

Launch angle vs ballspeed is what decides if spin levels is high or low, not the spin value itself.

 

A player at only 90 mph,/135 mph ballspeed has peak carry when launch is 19.5* and spin is 2100 (footprint of Trackmans algorithm).

 

but, we can get away with spin values as low as 1750, if launch is higher than 15* for 135 mph ballspeed. That will send us over and beyond Trackmans optimum numbers

 

The op has 100 mph, and 150 ballspeed on good strokes, but his impact vary too much to judge any needs for changes, and we should start in that end. (tighter impact pattern to get a better picture)

Edited June 16 by Howard_Jones