Loopy putting stroke - THE RETURN

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

 

 

Hi guys, I have posted about this before and was putting pretty decently but the OTT loop has returned with a vengeance, strike is so far out the heel and end over end roll is non existent.

 

I have made several setup changes to help as discussed previously (more ulnar at address and more knee bend)

 

I have been told that the shaft goes underplane on the backstroke then to compensate i need to throw it back out and over. 

 

 

Any help or tips would be greatly appreciated.

[getitdaily]

A few things I see...

 

1. Your eyes are over the yardstick rather than the ball. Not egregious, but

2. Your hands are a bit high. This combined with your eyeline position causes a couple issues

3. You are using a straight yardstick and that is causing you to lift the putter head, immediately. 

4. Your head raises in the downswing. 

 

My suggestions

 

1. Get eyes over the ball

2. Get hands a touch lower and arms a but closer to your body (#1 will help with this

3. Get a mirror and use it. Preferably one with an arc line on it. Hands lower, Get some arc in the stroke, and a biggie....keep the putter head low. That'll help it arc slightly inside 

4. Keep that head perfectly still so the handle (and thus the putter head) can chase down the line rather than left 

[KMeloney]

Putting is so personal that it's tough to say that you should/shouldn't be doing something. But it looks like that yardstick isn't doing you any favors.

 

You look to be setting up (and making contact) with your shoulders left of the hole. That could be adding to your "cut" stroke into the ball. In combo with that, it looks like you're using that ruler to take the putter back "straight," and it looks totally unnatural. You take the putter back outside, roll the face closed by the end of the backstroke, and then, yeah, since the putter is on an unnatural arc, you loop it further outside. In the face-on view, it also looks like you drag the handle back with the clubhead such that the face is already "released" at the end of your backstroke.

 

It looks like you're trying to employ a stroke that you've read about in a magazine, and otherwise have no feel for your [own] stroke.

 

I'd ditch the ruler, square up your shoulders, let the putter arc inside if it wants to (and get closer to or farther from the ball to influence the arc), let your wrists hinge slightly to help move the clubhead back, and give some attention to keeping the face nice and square through impact. Or, if you pretty much make everything doing what you're already doing, then keep doing it. (But I don't think you would have make this post if that were the case.)

 

FYI, this year I ditched my faithful 2-Ball for a Jailbird, thinnish grip for a 3.0 SuperStroke, standard grip for left-hand-low, and longer stroke for more of a pop-stroke, and it's been a game-changer. I putted ok previously, but I had no confidence. It took a very short amount of time to get used to LHL, and now I feel like I can make anything I look at.

 

Get out of your own way, mix it up some, and find what it takes to get the ball in the hole.

Edited July 9 by KMeloney

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

17 hours ago, getitdaily said:

A few things I see...

 

1. Your eyes are over the yardstick rather than the ball. Not egregious, but

2. Your hands are a bit high. This combined with your eyeline position causes a couple issues

3. You are using a straight yardstick and that is causing you to lift the putter head, immediately. 

4. Your head raises in the downswing. 

 

My suggestions

 

1. Get eyes over the ball

2. Get hands a touch lower and arms a but closer to your body (#1 will help with this

3. Get a mirror and use it. Preferably one with an arc line on it. Hands lower, Get some arc in the stroke, and a biggie....keep the putter head low. That'll help it arc slightly inside 

4. Keep that head perfectly still so the handle (and thus the putter head) can chase down the line rather than left 

Appreciate the in depth response!

 

I usually use a visio lines mat with an arc for most of my block practice, but as soon as i am off it the stroke goes to s**t.

 

What affect does having the hands too high at address have on face and path usually? i was doing some mirror work and tried what i felt like to have my hands "lower" at address but the club actually lined up with my forearms

 

The loop and non existent end over end roll has been the bane of my putting for as long as i can remember, i can somewhat deal with the loop if i am rolling it well but as soon as the line on the ball is knocked off line post impact i have zero confidence in holing anything.

[golferdude54]

17 hours ago, getitdaily said:

3. Get a mirror and use it. Preferably one with an arc line on it. Hands lower, Get some arc in the stroke, and a biggie....keep the putter head low. That'll help it arc slightly inside 

 

The thing is a mirror with the ball behind it or on top of it is different from an actual stroke, it's like trying to fit lie angle with a lie board on top of the grass which is a different level. You don't see the Pelz putting tutor very much on tour anymore because the ball is too raised off the green and players would hit too up on it when using it. 

 

An elevated string line bisecting the middle of the hole, the ball, and the putterhead ensures that his eyes will be directly over the line with his eyeline parallel to it. Yes, a mirror is good for a consistent setup but only if it's placed between the ball and the feet for parallel shoulder alignment combined with the elevated string line. 

[getitdaily]

4 hours ago, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

Appreciate the in depth response!

 

I usually use a visio lines mat with an arc for most of my block practice, but as soon as i am off it the stroke goes to s**t.

 

What affect does having the hands too high at address have on face and path usually? i was doing some mirror work and tried what i felt like to have my hands "lower" at address but the club actually lined up with my forearms

 

The loop and non existent end over end roll has been the bane of my putting for as long as i can remember, i can somewhat deal with the loop if i am rolling it well but as soon as the line on the ball is knocked off line post impact i have zero confidence in holing anything.

High hands limit rotation in the backswing. For path, it makes it hard to swing the putter on an inside to square or inside to inside arc. You appear to be like me in that you rotate the putter face a pretty good amount in the downswing. When you limit rotation on the way back and release/rotate on the way through you basically just get a consistent left miss. You then avoid the left miss with manipulation and along comes the 2way miss.

 

Big thing for me, recently, was getting on quintic and seeing that I rotate fairly significantly into the ball. No matter what with putter dynamics or what grip method I used (lhl/claw/conventional) I rotated nearly the same in the downswing. Anything that limited rotation in the backswing just caused pulls. I knew this based on hosel types from toying with putters...anything with less than about 25* toe hang would result in me hitting pulls. Quintic showed me why.

 

Your heel strike is because you take the club away on an outside path and then release the putter on an inside path. That out to in stroke caaues pulls so you manipulate the downswing by trying to push the handle or head to an outside path.....heel side every time.

 

If my suspicions are correct, the setup position I noted will put you in position to swing the club inside. But you need a mirror or other tool that reinforces an inside arc. You need to see what an inside arc is and just how much it feels like the hands have to go "in" immediately. The "Putter head low" forced thought helps. The more you try to go sbst, the more the putter wants to go up in the backswing....no bueno.

 

I would also look into a mirror that is big enough to show your shoulder alignment. Hard to swing the putter inside with closed shoulders.

 

Another drill you can do is putt an alignment stick under bith arms, just under the armpits. Putt with that alignment stick there...you'll feel a significant difference. 

 

You are likely a rotator like me and you need to embrace it on the way back without overdoing it. Put yourself in a position to enable rotation in the backswing and let the downswing do it's thing. 

 

Do you putt the head or putt the handle? Is your intention, in the stroke, to make the head move or make the handle move?

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

1 hour ago, getitdaily said:

High hands limit rotation in the backswing. For path, it makes it hard to swing the putter on an inside to square or inside to inside arc. You appear to be like me in that you rotate the putter face a pretty good amount in the downswing. When you limit rotation on the way back and release/rotate on the way through you basically just get a consistent left miss. You then avoid the left miss with manipulation and along comes the 2way miss.

 

Big thing for me, recently, was getting on quintic and seeing that I rotate fairly significantly into the ball. No matter what with putter dynamics or what grip method I used (lhl/claw/conventional) I rotated nearly the same in the downswing. Anything that limited rotation in the backswing just caused pulls. I knew this based on hosel types from toying with putters...anything with less than about 25* toe hang would result in me hitting pulls. Quintic showed me why.

 

Your heel strike is because you take the club away on an outside path and then release the putter on an inside path. That out to in stroke caaues pulls so you manipulate the downswing by trying to push the handle or head to an outside path.....heel side every time.

 

If my suspicions are correct, the setup position I noted will put you in position to swing the club inside. But you need a mirror or other tool that reinforces an inside arc. You need to see what an inside arc is and just how much it feels like the hands have to go "in" immediately. The "Putter head low" forced thought helps. The more you try to go sbst, the more the putter wants to go up in the backswing....no bueno.

 

I would also look into a mirror that is big enough to show your shoulder alignment. Hard to swing the putter inside with closed shoulders.

 

Another drill you can do is putt an alignment stick under bith arms, just under the armpits. Putt with that alignment stick there...you'll feel a significant difference. 

 

You are likely a rotator like me and you need to embrace it on the way back without overdoing it. Put yourself in a position to enable rotation in the backswing and let the downswing do it's thing. 

 

Do you putt the head or putt the handle? Is your intention, in the stroke, to make the head move or make the handle move?

All makes sense, thanks.

 

From personal preference and from a feel perspective I have always preferred trying to putt the head, feeling the weight of the putter head swing.

[Anthony Stevens]

No expert, but here is what I would try:

 

1) Try standing a little closer to the ball. As others have said, a mirror works wonders for making sure your eyeline is where you want it to be. I don't mind a little bit inside, but from this video, it looks like you're significantly inside.

2) It looks like you're trying  to achieve a SBST backswing. I would experiment with a slight arc. I have a similar putter, and with that nice long topline I try to visualize (during practice only!) that the long line on the top of the putter traces along little shallow arc immediately starting back from the ball. A SLIGHT arc.

3) Do you have access to a putting track? I have a Pelz version, and when my path gets way off I use it to recalibrate. I tilt it a little bit by putting something under the away-side feet to make sure it's not teaching me to do a SBST stroke, but rather more of an arc.

 

With regard to the ulnar, I find for myself personally that when I have too little ulnar, or my hands are too low, the putter head wants to jump outside the line when I start back. More ulnar gets me to that sweet spot where I don't need to manipulate the putterhead to get it going back on that correct (for me) little arc.

 

I can't see your grip, but maybe experiment with that too. If your grip is uncomfortable or incorrect for your desired mechanics, even if you only "know" this subconsciously, that would affect your ability to keep your path correct for sure.

 

One other tip that I picked up from Jim Waldron that has really helped me, and it sounds weird but has had great results on my path: press the arms towards one another before your stroke, and keep that pressure. Also, do a *slight* twist/pressure of the hands towards each other (left hand twists CW, right hand twists CCW). That seems to keep my whole unit stable and less manipulation required.

 

Mainly, experiment, experiment, experiment to find out what works for you. Keep the elbows in. Flare them out. Eyes over the ball. Eyes too far outside the ball. Power with your shoulders. Power with your ribcage/torso. Stronger grip.  Weaker grip. Butterfly grip. Really observe what each change in isolation does for your path.

 

HTH

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

All makes sense, thanks.

 

From personal preference and from a feel perspective I have always preferred trying to putt the head, feeling the weight of the putter head swing.

If you haven't spent time doing it...try the feeling of putting the handle and not worry about the head. The head will follow the handle, it has to. Whether you have a peripheral focus on the tip of yhe grip, bottom, or somewhere else...try the focus on where the handle goes...

 

May work, may not. The above stuff I posted is more important. 

[wagolfer7]

I'd watch this Stan Utley video that might change your perception of the putting stroke.  

 

Looks to me like you are trying really hard to keep that putter square and straight the entire stroke.  That's not how the club was designed.  The loop is essentially saving you from hitting the ball way off line.  

 

There's a whole series with Stan Utley putting.  But I think there's some major keys in this video that are really going to help you.  

 

#1 - Swing the club - don't steer it.  It looks like you are trying to keep everything so straight to get a straight roll.  Need to allow the elbows / shoulders / hands / wrists a little freedom.  Utley talks about the elbows specifically in this video.  In other videos he mentions not locking everything down.  But you'll see that your elbow is doing exactly what Utley is saying don't do.    

 

#2 - Arc - straight back and straight through doesn't work.  Utley shows this with his aid and gives a good description on why and how.  

 

#3 - Right Hand Putting Only - I'd do this for a bit to get rid of the feeling of needing to control the putterhead so much.  Let the putterhead release.  

 

Your a good golfer and have all that you need to putt well.  You just need a few adjustments and I think your intent through the ball needs to change.  Hope the video gives you a different perspective.  

 

 

[shellback]

 

This is just one opinion. But I think you may taking it back too far and making too long a stroke particularly for the length of putt in the video. Plus maybe too much thinking on mechanics. Just take it back a few inches and rap it in the hole. The shortish stroke keeps the putter head on line. 

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

Hi guys, appreciate everyones input highly.

 

I have done a bit of tinkering at home and it seems that standing closer to the ball (eyes slightly inside the ball) and lowering the hands helps, theres less of the feeling of approaching the ball with a shut face and having to make extreme manipulations to get the ball started on line, along with this the miss strike i`d say is actually more on the toe if i do mis hit so the path must be moving for the better.

 

i will try and get a video posted soon.

 

Thanks again. 

[ColoradoMike]

IMO, it's your hips. Putt an alignment rod thru your belt loop and you'll see how much they move thru impact. I struggle with this big time.

[jibbs1082]

FWIW I was rolling 38-40 putts a round shooting 80-84 all spring. Crippling my rounds on the greens. Felt loopy on take away and trouble releasing the face of my scotty phantom. Traded in some old clubs and bought a stock LAB Mezz off the shelf just to see if I liked it. Figured if I can take feel out of the stroke and just be mechanical straight back and straight through maybe I will see some success, particularly 8ft and in. My putts have dropped to an average of 33.

 

I would highly recommend buying one of ebay for cheap or just getting one in your hands for 4-5 rounds and seeing if you can gain some confidence. I have.

 

 

 

 

[DLiver]

Here's my take: your OTT move is related to a small weight shift away from the hole at the end of your backswing/beginning of your downswing. When you start the putter forward, you are moving your head back slightly. This causes you to pull your left shoulder open slightly and brings the club slightly above plane on the DS.

 

Try hitting some putt with your eyes closed. It is a great way to really feel what your body is doing during your stroke.

 

Another drill that may help is to stop your stroke and hold it there for a second or two (or three) before starting your downswing. This is a great way to clean up any loop in your stroke. I even do this on the sometimes to help smooth out my rhythm. It seems scary put you can really make some good strokes doing this.