License to Golf!!

[VinceRKG]

Weird but interesting....

I was in Amsterdam for the Indoor Golf Show at the RAI Centre and talked to many golfers, to find out they need a license to Golf!! I thought, really..how weird. They also have to get a Golf Cart License and mandatory 6 months of lessons! Have an established handicap of 26 and also turn in every card when they golf.

What are your thoughts on this subject? For all the good fast golfers out there and beginner golfers, would this help or benefit anything in the golf world here? Just thought I would see what everyone else thought. Thanks Guys........Vin

[Gxgolfer]

I thought Europe always required a vaild "licensed" handicap in order to play courses there?

[DRGJR72]

Yeah it is true. When I was in Austria playing pro-ams all the golfers had to be approved to be able to go onto the golf course. Pretty interesting stuff.

 

As a former PGA member the hardest things to deal with were etiquette and slow play. If we had the opportunity or ability to be stewards of the game like in Europe I do feel that the game in America would be in better shape. The players would have better respect and understanding of etiquette, rules, and slow play issues. If you are able to teach people from the get go on what to do and what not to do, you at least begin from a better starting point, IMO.

 

I would totally support it here in the states. Not saying they are flying around the course in Austria, but they know what is going on and are fully aware of the rules of conduct before they get on the course. Break the rules to many times or too flagrantly, loose the license to play. Great idea IMO.

 

Dan

[Taylormadematt]

I know that the local coure's where i live require you to play 9 holes with the pro if you do not have a handicap, and you will also have to know the etiquite aswell.

[dlnljl]

I am for this idea as well. It would definitely make it easier to marshal a course, and would sure speed up play. But I think you would find that all of the low handicaps would be for it and the high handicaps would be against it. Although there are courses that have different handicap requirements so that the higher handicaps have an opportunity to improve and move onto the more challenging courses,

[DRGJR72]

I think it is more about knowing the rules, etiquette and stuff like that. Some of the guys in the pro-am were well above 26 handicaps that is for sure. I think it is more about playing from the proper tees, knowing what to do on the course, pace of play, etc. Many things that are overlooked here in the states.

 

If you are able to get at someone when they are starting out, you are more apt to instill better habits. This then spreads to all the players as they all know what is required of them.

 

Dan

[golfsll]

WOW i find that really interesting that you have to have a license to play golf but you can go into any of Amsterdam's hundreds of "COFFEE SHOPS." Yea COFFEE, right

[taylormadefan]

Honestly rounds around the country are dwindling. Green fees are expensive, clubs are expensive, and a round of golf takes a lot of time.

 

As much good as this would do, I see this as one more factor to drive off people than improving the sport.

 

Pace of play these days is fine, you've just got to be the first foursome out. :man_in_love:

[BEND OF THE RIVER GC]

Honestly rounds around the country are dwindling. Green fees are expensive, clubs are expensive, and a round of golf takes a lot of time.

 

As much good as this would do, I see this as one more factor to drive off people than improving the sport.

 

Pace of play these days is fine, you've just got to be the first foursome out. :rolleyes:

 

I agree, rounds are really down. A mandatory system of golf licensing would, at this point, hurt the game here. I wouldn't be against it at times when there a clowns aheqad of me playing ultra slow and not allowing others to play on through.

 

IF courses made it extrememly clear about keeping pace, and I mean really clear at the counter, I think the slow people would either kick it up a notch or find a slower muni somewhere where slow play is tolerated a bit more.

[greenail]

Honestly rounds around the country are dwindling. Green fees are expensive, clubs are expensive, and a round of golf takes a lot of time.

 

As much good as this would do, I see this as one more factor to drive off people than improving the sport.

 

Pace of play these days is fine, you've just got to be the first foursome out. :rolleyes:

 

Um yea, 4 drunk doods taking 4 practice swings each for every shot, waiting for everyone to swing before even thinking about looking for the ball or selecting a club, waiting for the green to clear 270 out, and with no idea of what asking someone to play through is great for the sport.

[jkumpire]

Are you kidding?

 

Who authorizes the license?

Who determines who is eligible to get one?

Mandated six months of lessons? Who pays for it?

How does it get enforced?

 

Does this mean that if I went to that country on vaction this June and walked on at some course I couldn't play unless I had a USGA Handicap card with me, or a private club memebership with a letter from the pro saying I am less than a 25 handicap? Or do I have to take somebody around with me to show I know what I am doing?

 

If a private club wants to do it for their private club, fine. But the moment it applies to more than one course it is a massive infringment on somebody's liberty, IMO. Every time I hear the word "license" my first thought is that governement is limiting somebody's liberty, or trying to raise revenue. I just don't see having to get somebody's permission to play golf for any reason. Doesn't that idea bother anyone?

 

It sounds like a very regulated European idea, just right for them. This may be one reason why every time I watch a Euro PGA Tour event on the Golf Channel they have very few people following the players, except for maybe the featured pairing or the final group on Sat/Sun.

 

If slow play is a problem on a course, then get the course manangement on the problem.

[Aratan]

Are you kidding?

 

Who authorizes the license?

Who determines who is eligible to get one?

Mandated six months of lessons? Who pays for it?

How does it get enforced?

 

Does this mean that if I went to that country on vaction this June and walked on at some course I couldn't play unless I had a USGA Handicap card with me, or a private club memebership with a letter from the pro saying I am less than a 25 handicap? Or do I have to take somebody around with me to show I know what I am doing?

 

If a private club wants to do it for their private club, fine. But the moment it applies to more than one course it is a massive infringment on somebody's liberty, IMO. Every time I hear the word "license" my first thought is that governement is limiting somebody's liberty, or trying to raise revenue. I just don't see having to get somebody's permission to play golf for any reason. Doesn't that idea bother anyone?

 

It sounds like a very regulated European idea, just right for them. This may be one reason why every time I watch a Euro PGA Tour event on the Golf Channel they have very few people following the players, except for maybe the featured pairing or the final group on Sat/Sun.

 

If slow play is a problem on a course, then get the course manangement on the problem.

 

This is the Danish system:

 

You have to be a member of a club to play as a greenfee player at other courses. There are clubs that exist mostly on long distance members for this purpose. They also make a living off the fact that good courses in the Copenhagen area have long waiing lists for membership. mine dos not but it is not very good... The one next to where I work has a 7-9 year waiting period...

To be a member of the Danish Golf Association the club must allow greenfee players, although they may set restrictions, for instance on handicap or times that are bookable for greenfee players. Common handicap restrictions are around 30-36, although better courses may set the bar around 20.

On your own course there are no restrictions on handicap, well almost at least. At my club you must score 14 stableford for 9 holes off handicap 54 once in a beginners match to be allowed out on your own. Since playing to handicap 54 would be 18 stableford I think most people would agree that is not too harsh a limit...

Before you can start playing beginner matches you have to take lessons, until you satisfy the pro that you plan play to the level required to pass the playing test. If you can play, you will just have to have the one lesson where you prove that you have what it takes.

As far as handicaps go, you have to turn in every card better than your handicap at the time and your club keeps a record. That also means that if I go to the US to golf and I need to prove handicap they can see it right off the Association website with my password. (dgu.org/verify)

All handicap regulation is based on stableford points, regular stroke play is generally only used for players below hcp 18 and you also have to calculate the Stableford score. You are also responsible for calculate your own handicap as soon as you improve and use then new one right way until the club gets the card.

You handicap is not a running average over last rounds played, it is basically a calculation of the best you can play. It only gets regulated upwards when you play in a tournament and play below your handicap. I play off 18,4 and if I play worse than 32 stableford (that would be worse than gross 96 on my home course as my course handicap is 19 on my course and below 32 stableford would be 5 strokes worse than 72 + 19) I will be regulated 0,1 upwards. You cannot go below 4.5 on private rounds, you have to play tournaments to go lower than that.

[philfan316]

A bad golfer that plays fast, knows the rules, doesn't spend a lot of time looking for his balls, is a helluva lot better than a good golfer who plays slow, questions rulings, and spends a lot of time looking for his balls. I would play with 3 other high handicappers that are fast than 1 other player who is a +1 but is super slow.

[larrybud]

I was in Amsterdam for the Indoor Golf Show at the RAI Centre and talked to many golfers, to find out they need a license to Golf!! I thought, really..how weird. They also have to get a Golf Cart License and mandatory 6 months of lessons! Have an established handicap of 26 and also turn in every card when they golf.

 

What are your thoughts on this subject? For all the good fast golfers out there and beginner golfers, would this help or benefit anything in the golf world here? Just thought I would see what everyone else thought. Thanks Guys........Vin

 

I think it should be up to every golf course owner to determine the criteria for playing their course, and not some other entity regulating them.

[Furrankee]

I was in Amsterdam for the Indoor Golf Show at the RAI Centre and talked to many golfers, to find out they need a license to Golf!! I thought, really..how weird. They also have to get a Golf Cart License and mandatory 6 months of lessons! Have an established handicap of 26 and also turn in every card when they golf.

 

What are your thoughts on this subject? For all the good fast golfers out there and beginner golfers, would this help or benefit anything in the golf world here? Just thought I would see what everyone else thought. Thanks Guys........Vin

 

I think it should be up to every golf course owner to determine the criteria for playing their course, and not some other entity regulating them.

 

 

Instead of issuing a required license...

 

Why don't we all just learn to be a little more patient with each other.

[Konrad]

So what is the rule for bathrooms? Are there 5 handicap bathrooms and 10 handicap bathrooms? This idea is really pushing it on the level of judiciously restricted play. What is next for this sport? We already have the illusion of a rich mans game anyways, and this isn't making it any better.

[m3bimmer2000]

I think its a great idea. I live in Germany and for them to get a drivers license, they have to spend a year taking drivers ed (paid for by them). Well guess what, they are great drivers for the most part. They arent ignorant self absorbed idiots that drive in the left lane for no reason. All people should be required to show knowledge of the rules of golf as well as the ability to play to a decent level. Im not saying you need to play to a 10 or anything but 36 or so is a fair number. I get sick and tired of idiots in front of me that obviously dont know basic etiquette, not raking bunkers, driving carts ON the greens, dragging their feet on the greens, not repairing pitch marks, etc. As for slow play, it really doesnt matter what skill level you are at because I've played with 36 hcp'ers who play fast and single digit guys that take a month to swing the club. In my opinion, slow players lack basic consideration for others around them.

[J-J]

Belgium is the same:

1. license is required if you want to play

Which means you have to pass three tests

(theoretical: etiquette and rules)

(practical short game: chipping and putting)

(practical long game: shots over 100meters)

Then you get your license but are not yet allowed on other courses becausse your handicap begins at 45

You can enter "rabbit competitions" at your home course and drop until hcp 37

 

2. handicap 36: last and final test: play 9 holes with a minimum stableford score of 16 points (playing hcp 36)

 

3. now you have you're hcp 36 you can play almost every course except ofcourse those

who set the HCP limit higher (eg 30 or 20, mostly more exclusive clubs)

 

Ofcourse all this means is that people playing will have a basic understanding of the rules and etiquette and

are able to hit a few shots. It does however take longer when you start to play golf. Usually about 6 months before you can give it a try on the course itself.

 

[DRGJR72]

I still don't see the problem with all golfers being instructed on the rules, etiquette, and pace of play. It makes total sense. Sort of like getting your drivers license. You need to at least know the rules of the road before you enter the race.

 

I am speaking from the point of a former golf pro. The main problems that I dealt with on the golf course were pace of play, etiquette, and rules. All of which could be at least addressed with the ideas that are required in Europe.

 

Again...I think it would be beneficial to the game in the long run if all the people on the golf course knew what the deal was before they set foot on it. Eradicating 5 hour rounds, people that think they are better than the rules or etiquette, and inducing a sort of appreciation for a sport that is in dire need of so would be an amazing accomplishment here in the states.

 

It would have made my job as a golf pro that much more important.

 

Dan

[avrag]

Who authorizes the license?

 

The National Golf Association

 

 

Who determines who is eligible to get one?

 

A certified PGA teaching pro. He let's you take a written standardized test on rules and etiquette and you have to play 9 holes with him, after which he determines whether you get the license (it is called "Platzreife" in German, meaning you are mature enough as a golfer to get on the golf course) or not.

 

Mandated six months of lessons? Who pays for it?

 

The golfer who starts playing the game pays for it. But there is no mandatory minimum of lessons that I am aware of. If you can pass the test without lessons, fine. But usually it will take at least about ten 50 min lessons before you are good enough to do so.

 

How does it get enforced?

 

You have to show your card when you check in to start your round. You get your card once you become a member of a club and (at the same time) of your National Golf Association. The card has your name and your handicap on it. As long as you do not have a handicap of 36 or less you are only allowed to play on your own home course. The answer to the next question should clear that up a little bit.

 

Does this mean that if I went to that country on vaction this June and walked on at some course I couldn't play unless I had a USGA Handicap card with me, or a private club memebership with a letter from the pro saying I am less than a 25 handicap? Or do I have to take somebody around with me to show I know what I am doing?

 

If a private club wants to do it for their private club, fine.

 

There are no public golf courses in continental Europe and there are no "private" clubs in continental Europe (at least none that I know of).

This is the system:

If you want to play golf you have to become a member of your National Golf Association, because that is the only way to get an official handicap. You can only become a member of your NGA, if you become a member of a club as well. Those golf clubs have nothing in common with the usual US private G&C Club. They are just a sports club, nothing more, nothing less. There are more expensive ones and cheaper ones. The cheaper ones will usually have only a 9 hole course, built in a way that is very easy and cheap to maintain. As another poster explained, the cheapest memberships are often "long range" memberships. This way you are a member of a golf club that is more than 200 miles away from the place where you live. This means the club can rely on you not being there too often, so it can issue a lot of these memberships without crowding its course, but it will still keep your handicap for you. You just have to pay green fees, if you want to play a course in your neighbourhood.

As I mentioned before, there are no "private clubs" as such. All the golf clubs allow everybody who is a member of ANY OTHER official golf club on their courses, charging green fees (which are cheaper than in the US).

I paid about $ 3000 for becoming a member in the first place and I pay about $ 2000 a year for the playing privileges in my club. This is about middle of the road in Austria. There are clubs, that are a lot cheaper and there are clubs, that are a lot more expensive. Being a member, I can play as many rounds on my home course as I want to over the year and I can use the practice facilities for free. I have to pay green fees, if I want to play on other courses than my home course. Green fees range from about $ 50 on weekdays to $ 100 on weekends for 18 hole par 72 courses in all but the most expensive clubs. Lots of clubs have partnerships with 20 or more other clubs, so that the members can play for half the green fee on the courses of those other clubs.

If you want to come and play you will have to show a card with an official handicap of your National GA certifying a handicap of 36 or better. You will be asked to produce it, when you check in for your tee time.

 

If a private club wants to do it for their private club, fine. But the moment it applies to more than one course it is a massive infringment on somebody's liberty, IMO. Every time I hear the word "license" my first thought is that governement is limiting somebody's liberty, or trying to raise revenue. I just don't see having to get somebody's permission to play golf for any reason. Doesn't that idea bother anyone?

 

It sounds like a very regulated European idea, just right for them. This may be one reason why every time I watch a Euro PGA Tour event on the Golf Channel they have very few people following the players, except for maybe the featured pairing or the final group on Sat/Sun.

 

If slow play is a problem on a course, then get the course manangement on the problem.

 

I have refrained for quite a long time from posting the following, because this is a great forum, and I certainly don't want to cause a rift between the members, and I don't want to start an intercontinental war here, but:

Being somewhat provoked by a certain ideological bias in this post, let me just say this:

In Europe, we don't ride in carts, we walk, either carrying our bags or using pull carts or push carts. So, we do not need people who put our bags on carts for us, which also means we do not have the problems described in this topic:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=113309

 

We usually also take two bottles of water or soda with us on the course, so we do not have to deal with problem discussed in this topic:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=150454

 

The licensing system (thank God) makes it unnecessary for us to deal with the problems discussed in this topic:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=150454

 

So, I really prefer things the way they are here.

And another thing:

European handicaps (especially in the 10 to 30 range) are a completly different animal than US handicaps, according to my experiences. I have played a lot of golf in the US, and I have even taken part in a few tournaments, that were organized by resorts for their guests. Just one example, that took place in Hawaii, when I was on vacation there. I had an official European hcp of 22 at the time. The other people in my group were all from the US, handicaps ranging from 12 to 20 (very nice guys, it was a pleasure to play with them). On account of my hcp, I was made to play from tee boxes in this tournament, that I would consider ladies' tees on my home course. Also, everybody had 3 mulligans per round to use at will. As a result, I shot a gross 82 that day without even playing what I would consider my best golf. Naturally, I won the net competition by a mile, which led to talk of an "inflated hcp". It was not, we are just used to playing under completely different circumstances.

Every round that lasts longer than 4 hours is considered cruel and unusual punishment around here.

 

To all the great guys from the US who started this forum and maintain it:

It is great, you are doing a very fine job, and I love being here, I have learned a lot in those past few months. So, I didn't mean to critisize anybody, I just wanted to make a few things clear.

 

Cheers, gotta watch the WGC from Doral now.

[larrybud]

I still don't see the problem with all golfers being instructed on the rules, etiquette, and pace of play rules. It makes total sense. Sort of like getting your drivers license. You need to at least know the rules of the road before you enter the race.

Why should a golf course owner be forced to comply with someone else's rules on who gets to play golf on their private property?

[DRGJR72]

I still don't see the problem with all golfers being instructed on the rules, etiquette, and pace of play rules. It makes total sense. Sort of like getting your drivers license. You need to at least know the rules of the road before you enter the race.

Why should a golf course owner be forced to comply with someone else's rules on who gets to play golf on their private property?

 

 

They shouldn't be forced to do anything. I was merely stating that it is not a bad idea and could be beneficial to the sport.

 

Why anyone would want to support/suggest ideas that could improve the experience or the game of golf is beyond me. That seems so foolish in hindsight, I have no idea what I was thinking. :rolleyes:

 

Dan

[Logie]

Belgium is the same:

1. license is required if you want to play

Which means you have to pass three tests

(theoretical: etiquette and rules)

(practical short game: chipping and putting)

(practical long game: shots over 100meters)

Then you get your license but are not yet allowed on other courses becausse your handicap begins at 45

You can enter "rabbit competitions" at your home course and drop until hcp 37

 

2. handicap 36: last and final test: play 9 holes with a minimum stableford score of 16 points (playing hcp 36)

 

3. now you have you're hcp 36 you can play almost every course except ofcourse those

who set the HCP limit higher (eg 30 or 20, mostly more exclusive clubs)

 

Ofcourse all this means is that people playing will have a basic understanding of the rules and etiquette and

are able to hit a few shots. It does however take longer when you start to play golf. Usually about 6 months before you can give it a try on the course itself.

 

 

Was just about to say this. It doesnt slow down play at all, it takes a few months to get into the game. But the people who have done the above know all the basic rules and shots. They also drive the carts on the proper lines aswell.

 

Its a really good idea, although i wouldnt like to go through the hassle, but if you did. Your clued up on all the basics, including slow play!