Taylor Made TP Red w/ LDP

[arniesarmy]

Last year's Red spun much better for me around the greens. Tried the 08 LDP Red -- not for me.

 

Tough to beat the ProV1 around the greens for delicate shots. It may not be the longest or the best in the wind, but it's excellent around the greens.

 

The best overall ball for me has been the B330-S. But I'm waiting for the Callaway Tour i Ball. Hope that meets all my expectations. lol.

 

Last years TP red is this years TP black. They switched this year

 

The black is still the high spin, high ballflight choice which is the same as last year. Personally, the '07 Red is almost perfect. Very predictable, flat ball flight and just enough greenside spin. Golfsmith has '07 practice red and black balls for $14.99/doz. I bought 3 doz. It's a great deal.

[JeffreySpicoli]

Last year's Red spun much better for me around the greens. Tried the 08 LDP Red -- not for me.

 

Tough to beat the ProV1 around the greens for delicate shots. It may not be the longest or the best in the wind, but it's excellent around the greens.

 

The best overall ball for me has been the B330-S. But I'm waiting for the Callaway Tour i Ball. Hope that meets all my expectations. lol.

 

Last years TP red is this years TP black. They switched this year

 

The black is still the high spin, high ballflight choice which is the same as last year. Personally, the '07 Red is almost perfect. Very predictable, flat ball flight and just enough greenside spin. Golfsmith has '07 practice red and black balls for $14.99/doz. I bought 3 doz. It's a great deal.

 

The idea that TM switched around the Red & Black is the myth that won't die.

 

Here's the lowdown from the horse's mouth:

GolfWRX Interivew - Dean Snell TaylorMade Golf

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Last year's Red spun much better for me around the greens. Tried the 08 LDP Red -- not for me.

 

Tough to beat the ProV1 around the greens for delicate shots. It may not be the longest or the best in the wind, but it's excellent around the greens.

 

The best overall ball for me has been the B330-S. But I'm waiting for the Callaway Tour i Ball. Hope that meets all my expectations. lol.

 

Last years TP red is this years TP black. They switched this year

 

The black is still the high spin, high ballflight choice which is the same as last year. Personally, the '07 Red is almost perfect. Very predictable, flat ball flight and just enough greenside spin. Golfsmith has '07 practice red and black balls for $14.99/doz. I bought 3 doz. It's a great deal.

 

The idea that TM switched around the Red & Black is the myth that won't die.

 

Here's the lowdown from the horse's mouth:

GolfWRX Interivew - Dean Snell TaylorMade Golf

Matt, thanks for the link GREAT INTERVIEW...I probably learned more about golf balls in that article than I had in years of playing. Very informative. I feel even better now about my decision to play the Reds.....although he does have me wondering about the $20 difference. I might have to go do that 100 yard in test, but as I've mentioned before to me the biggest thing about the Red so far is the sound/feel off my wedge and putter. I dobut the Burner TP has that sound and feel.

[JeffreySpicoli]

Matt, thanks for the link GREAT INTERVIEW...I probably learned more about golf balls in that article than I had in years of playing. Very informative. I feel even better now about my decision to play the Reds.....although he does have me wondering about the $20 difference. I might have to go do that 100 yard in test, but as I've mentioned before to me the biggest thing about the Red so far is the sound/feel off my wedge and putter. I dobut the Burner TP has that sound and feel.

 

You're quite welcome. And props to Golfwrx for doing interviews like that and then sharing with us.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Yes, indeed. I didn't mean to neglect thanking Gofwrx. The founders here obviously have the respect of many OEM's and it's interviews like that, that show it. THANKS GOLFWRX.

[sk373]

The idea that TM switched around the Red & Black is the myth that won't die.

 

Here's the lowdown from the horse's mouth:

GolfWRX Interivew - Dean Snell TaylorMade Golf

 

how is it a myth? methinks you didn't read carefully enough. an excerpt from that interview (referring to the 08 TP Black and Red):

 

A lot of players want more spin or need more spin. A lot of players today don’t have enough spin in the golf ball - the TP Black maintains that. So if you’re a lower spinning guy that needs more spin, the TP Black. If you’re a high-spin player that spins too much, I would suggest trying the TP Red.

 

an excerpt from a review posted on The Sand Trap regarding the previous version of the TP Black and TP Red (http://thesandtrap.com/equipment/balls/taylormade_tp_redtp_black_ball_review):

 

Feel and Spin

While these balls were undergoing testing, their code names were the "TPV" and the "TPX." You can imagine which turned out to be which, as both the TP Red and the TP Black are aimed to compete squarely with Titleist's front-running Pro V1 and Pro V1x. A quick word to the wondering: though the Pro V1x has red numbers (which have historically been used for the lower-compression balls), the TP Red corresponds to the Pro V1 while the TP Black corresponds to the Pro V1x, righting the color-scheme ship that wrecked somewhere off the coast of Fairhaven, MA.

 

here's a chart comparing the previous version of the TP Black and TP Red with the ProV1-x and ProV1 (note how the overall ball compression of the TP Black and ProV1-x is higher than the TP Red and ProV1):

 

 

besides that, all you have to do is look at the boxes of each respective model. the box for the 07 TP Black clearly indicates that it's a high launch, lower spin ball. the box for the 07 TP Red clearly indicates that it's a lower launch, higher spin ball than the 07 TP Black.

[rondre3000]

So help me out here. I LOVE the 07 TP Black. Is the 08 TP Red LDP the same ball (as the 07 TP Black), just softer?

 

 

-r.

[JeffreySpicoli]

sk373,

 

The 2007 Black was higher spinning than the 2007 Red. See February 2008 issue of Golf Magazine. And that Sand Trap review is wrong.

 

So, methinks you're got your facts wrong.

 

How about you contact Dean Snell?

[rcfishy]

So help me out here. I LOVE the 07 TP Black. Is the 08 TP Red LDP the same ball (as the 07 TP Black), just softer?

 

 

-r.

I would say the Red.LDP launches slightly lower and flatter but with similar low spin. It feels MUCh softer though!!! The wedge/iron spin is also much more controlled with the Red.LDP

[sk373]

sk373,

 

The 2007 Black was higher spinning than the 2007 Red. See February 2008 issue of Golf Magazine. And that Sand Trap review is wrong.

 

So, methinks you're got your facts wrong.

 

How about you contact Dean Snell?

 

i guess according to you, TaylorMade themselves don't know their product: TaylorMade press release for original TP Red and TP Black

 

just look at the construction. the 07 TP Red is softer, with a thinner mantle. the 07 TP Black has a thicker mantle and isn't as soft. the construction alone tells you which one is designed to spin more. Golf Magazine, otoh, isn't exactly the word on accurate and scientific testing of golf balls. personally, i would trust results based on what TaylorMade themselves have said they designed the balls to do. but whatever--you must be right, and i must be wrong, even though TaylorMade and Dean Snell's words say otherwise. ;)

[gumpy]

TM have made a hash of all this...

 

Anyway at least people here agree the LDP Black out spins the Red... iacas off Sandtrap deleted a post of mine which proved him wrong and maintains Snell got confused about the black out spinning the red in his interview posted on this site.

 

At least we all know and agree how the new TP versions play. Anyway they're both awesome.

 

Lets stop bickering and get some more practice in.

[ozgoodz]

Finally got to play the TP Reds yesterday. Between tornadoes, lightning, and rain in the Mid-Atlantic yesterday I played a combination of found Nike Mojo for four holes and the TP Red for the remainder.

 

Overall I'd have to say that the TP Red wasn't too special. It felt "heavier" off of the club face for driver/iron shots than the mojo. The distance was similar and good. I've written a few times about not liking the E5+ because of loss of distance on iron shots. No complaints about that with the TP Red.

 

The one real disappointment that I had was on a 3/4 100 yard 52* wedge shot from the fairway. I hit a lower 3/4 swing shot to keep it down in the wind and rain and really expected the ball to hit the green, check up, hop twice, and stop. It didn't. It hit and released about 15 feet. I'm not sure if it was the rain, wet fairway/green, or my execution.

 

Hopefully next week the weather will be better and fairways won't be filled with tree parts so I can give them a better review. At this point, I don't see the advantage to the TP Red vs AD333.

[JeffreySpicoli]

gumpy,

 

Good info.

 

Hopefully, sk373 won't go out of his way to insult you for your post.

[gumpy]

Finally got to play the TP Reds yesterday. Between tornadoes, lightning, and rain in the Mid-Atlantic yesterday I played a combination of found Nike Mojo for four holes and the TP Red for the remainder.

 

Overall I'd have to say that the TP Red wasn't too special. It felt "heavier" off of the club face for driver/iron shots than the mojo. The distance was similar and good. I've written a few times about not liking the E5+ because of loss of distance on iron shots. No complaints about that with the TP Red.

 

The one real disappointment that I had was on a 3/4 100 yard 52* wedge shot from the fairway. I hit a lower 3/4 swing shot to keep it down in the wind and rain and really expected the ball to hit the green, check up, hop twice, and stop. It didn't. It hit and released about 15 feet. I'm not sure if it was the rain, wet fairway/green, or my execution.

 

Hopefully next week the weather will be better and fairways won't be filled with tree parts so I can give them a better review. At this point, I don't see the advantage to the TP Red vs AD333.

 

I'd say it's cause it was wet, the ball probably skidded off the wedge and skimmed the water on the shallow approach.

 

The AD333 and TP red ldp's are vastly different but if you prefer the AD333's you're a lucky one... They're so much cheaper...

[JeffreySpicoli]

Here's a bit of a summary:

 

2008: Black LDP is very different than Red LDP

2007: Black & Red are not very different (though according to GolfLabs test results, the Black is both longer off the driver & higher spinning off the short iron)

 

Dean Snell supports this:

 

GolfWRX: What improvements were made in the 2008 TP balls over the 2007 ones?

 

Dean Snell: LDP Technology, Low Drag Performance is new in both golf balls. It’s a new 360 dimple pattern that again helps players on miss-hits, helps the ball stay in the air longer on lower spinning driver shots which is an advantage for a lot of people. I think if you look back at the TP Red and TP Black, we spoke about “patent minefields.” Because of patents, those balls became very close to each other with respect to feel, spin, and performance. This year we’re really separated them out. We separated Red and Black out considerably. On Tour last year with all our players, it was about a 50/50 split. I think if you listen to what a lot of them said the biggest challenge the highest spinning players have to get to back pins with 8 irons, 9 irons, pitching wedges, and sand wedges – full short iron shots. So we worked pretty hard to create the TP Red as the new four piece ball and the inside mantle layer is very, very soft. So the feel of the Red is much softer than it used to be. We’ve also been able to lower the full iron spin by using this soft mantle layer. So the new Red is now a lower spinning full iron shot. So if players are actually spinning the ball back too much you definitely want to give the Red a try. The Black has been held to the spin rate of a Pro V1, Pro V1X so players looking for a little extra spin on the irons, its TP Black. For players that have trouble controlling spin because it’s too much, it’s TP Red. Big differences between the two this year in feel and short game spin. When you get closer to the green, where the cover and mantle work together, that’s where they get similar. Red is going to be a little softer, have a nice little check on it and Black’s going to be similar to what Pro V1X is.

 

GolfWRX: That’s a little bit of a departure from what it as last year where they were more similar off the driver and reacted a little differently around the greens right?

 

Dean Snell: Yes and the difference around the greens last year was subtle. The performance around the greens this year, probably the biggest converters that have gone to Red is they like the way the ball feels, they like the way the ball feels like it stays on the face where they have a little more control, it also comes off the face with a little bit lower flight with the irons. Because it’s a little bit softer, it stays on the face a little bit longer and can come off a little bit lower. Those players feel like they can keep it a little bit lower, less affected by the wind and the spin is not high so they’re controlling the shot a little bit better, less affected by wind. I think that’s probably been some of the best feedback we’ve gotten from tour players – the consistency of the golf ball with the irons has been very, very good into the wind, cross wind, down wind. Tour players have been very happy hitting the ball the same distances every time they play which is good because we worked on that to control spin and with irons that helps control distances.

[rondre3000]

sk373,

 

The 2007 Black was higher spinning than the 2007 Red. See February 2008 issue of Golf Magazine. And that Sand Trap review is wrong.

 

So, methinks you're got your facts wrong.

 

How about you contact Dean Snell?

 

The GolfMagazine test was on the 08 LDP balls. The Sandtrap review was on the 07 NON-LDP balls.

 

 

-r.

[JeffreySpicoli]

The GolfMagazine test was on the 08 LDP balls. The Sandtrap review was on the 07 NON-LDP balls.

 

 

-r.

 

Just curious as to how you know that the Golf Magazine/GolfLabs tests were on the 2008 LDP balls? There's no reference to LDP in the article.

 

If GolfLabs did actually test the 2008 balls, then it would be interesting to hear from Dean Snell as to his interpretation of the results. The results point to the two balls being essentially the same as far as performance. Dean noted in his interview that the 2007 balls offered essentially the same performance but that the 2008 balls were noticeably different.

 

From the February 2008 issue of Golf Magazine:

 

Total Driver Distance (carry + roll)

-- TP Black 259.1 yards

-- TP Red 258.6 yards

 

Sand Wedge Spin

-- TP Black 12,062 Rpm

-- TP Red 11,872 Rpm

[rondre3000]

Check the pictures of each ball they tested. You can clearly see the LDP along the seam.

 

He also mentioned, if I recall correctly, that off the tee the balls should perform similar. It is from 100yds and in where you "should" see the difference in "performance". Not sure whether 200rpms from 100yds and is a difference to the avg golfer but I'm sure it may be for the Tour Pro.

 

 

 

-r.

[JeffreySpicoli]

Check the pictures of each ball they tested. You can clearly see the LDP along the seam.

 

He also mentioned, if I recall correctly, that off the tee the balls should perform similar. It is from 100yds and in where you "should" see the difference in "performance". Not sure whether 200rpms from 100yds and is a difference to the avg golfer but I'm sure it may be for the Tour Pro.

 

 

 

-r.

 

I had noticed that about the pictures. However, pictures of LDPs doesn't mean that LDPs were tested. We need better information than that to conclude that LDPs were actually tested. Remember, LDPs were never mentioned in the wording of the test results.

 

I'd also like to see some evidence concerning the difference detected by tour pros with +/- 200 ball rpm on a wedge shot. Difference in specifications and/or test measurements is one thing. Difference in real world performance is another thing.

[rondre3000]

That's fine. I don't think LDP is actually part of the name tho, is it? I mean, they don't list the Burner and Burner TP with LDP in the name. I'm perfectly fine with a picture of said product and their review of a product to mean that they actually reviewed the product pictured.

 

In the end, I like the 07 TP Blacks anyway. Just picked up another 5 doz @ Golfsmith for $14.99/per.

 

 

-r.

[JeffreySpicoli]

That's fine. I don't think LDP is actually part of the name tho, is it? I mean, they don't list the Burner and Burner TP with LDP in the name. I'm perfectly fine with a picture of said product and their review of a product to mean that they actually reviewed the product pictured.

 

In the end, I like the 07 TP Blacks anyway. Just picked up another 5 doz @ Golfsmith for $14.99/per.

 

 

-r.

 

I think I understand where you're coming from and I'm not saying that you're wrong. (BTW, I see different advertisements for the 2008 balls and some call out the LDP and some don't.)

 

I am convinced that things don't line up between TM's marketing, TM's engineering, and some limited scientific testing.

 

Ultimately that's too bad because TM is producing some nice golf balls.

[gumpy]

The GolfMagazine test was on the 08 LDP balls. The Sandtrap review was on the 07 NON-LDP balls.

 

 

-r.

 

Just curious as to how you know that the Golf Magazine/GolfLabs tests were on the 2008 LDP balls? There's no reference to LDP in the article.

 

If GolfLabs did actually test the 2008 balls, then it would be interesting to hear from Dean Snell as to his interpretation of the results. The results point to the two balls being essentially the same as far as performance. Dean noted in his interview that the 2007 balls offered essentially the same performance but that the 2008 balls were noticeably different.

 

From the February 2008 issue of Golf Magazine:

 

Total Driver Distance (carry + roll)

-- TP Black 259.1 yards

-- TP Red 258.6 yards

 

Sand Wedge Spin

-- TP Black 12,062 Rpm

-- TP Red 11,872 Rpm

 

 

Wasn't the sand wedge in this test at some rediculously high SS? Could it skew the results?

[JeffreySpicoli]

gumpy,

 

I don't have the issue with me right now. I'll post the details on the SW test tomorrow.

[gumpy]

gumpy,

 

I don't have the issue with me right now. I'll post the details on the SW test tomorrow.

 

 

Hey Mate,

 

when you do post up some of the spin data could you pls included the NXT Tour, e5, Gamer and Burner TP too as well as how the TP's compare to the prov's? I'm in Australia and I really can't get my hands on a copy of this... Even offered Golf Mag for an e copy stating i was happy to pay and still nothing.

 

Would be much appreciated.

 

thanks,

[SDGolfing]

Well I did what I told you I would do...I bought a sleeve. Went out to the old 9 hole course (it is attached to an 18 so its not too slumy decent greens etc. perfect place for a test session) brang the old sky caddy and went to work with the showdown everyone is talking about...PROV1x VS TPRed. Brief background of myself, played in college play competitively here and there now about a 1 index hit the ball a decent ways (you get the point I am worthy of conducting a test).

Typical testing of a new golf ball goes about like this for me. Hit a few putts hit a few chips hit a few irons and throw the sleeve in my shag bag and go back to the PROV1X. Nothing comes close to this golf ball for me. I have hit all the srixons, callaways, taylormades (now at least) and bridgestones. Today I was in for a decent surprise. I hit lots and i mean LOTS of shots. So that I could come here and provide a non biased review of my findings. Hopefully this will be useful to ya if your debating between the options. Lastly let me say that I am a true ho I try everything yet I stick with what works (905R driver Tmade 300 lehman grind irons etc) The only thing that has come out lately that has gotten me to make a switch are scratch wedges. So what I am trying to emphasize is that I will not switch unless something is BETTER. If its the same I stay put. And with that awaaaaaay we go.

 

Lets go from the green back.

 

Putting: Cannot tell a difference here guys. Which is shocking. Usually the X feels a little softer than other options but I really cannot tell a difference. There were times when I literally was like which did I just roll? They even look similar with the sight line etc. It did seem that the taylormade actually rolled out a TAD i mean TAD better. Which doesnt really bother me.

Winner: DRAW(which remember a draw means it is not better so I assume this means Titleist wins this factor)

 

Chipping: Ok, there WAS a difference here. The taylormade does not spin as much. It does not spin a lot less but it does in fact spin less. I hit about 40 flops where I can really see the difference between the two and the X just checked better. One hop and stop control. TMade was like one hop skip and roll out. It rolls out more than the titleist. Even on bunker shots i could see the titleist spinning in the air more checking once it hit the green.

Winner: Titleist (I will take all the help I can get on a tight shot)

 

Iron Shots: Ok BIG difference here. The taylormade is the most unique ball I have ever hit in that it actually provides feedback. If you hit it flush it feels almost like a balata. A little heavier comes out a little flatter overall just kind of a cool feature. There were times where I hit it not so good and I was like damn that felt like a feather. It is actually softer and lighter on mis-hits. I had to literally look up and see the result which was usually pretty decent. It does seem to in some way slightly fix mis hits. The titleist just has that solid feel every time. Always a little stiffer than a balata but just a soild feel to it. Which you gotta love. Distance wise I saw no difference. On solid shots it might be a touch and i mean a TOUCH longer than the X maybe like a few yards but nothing you would notice on the course. Spin with a full wedge was similar to the Titleist nothing huge to note.

Winner: TMade I actually dig the feedback factor it would however take a while to get used to.

 

Driver: First and formeost anyone who tells you they are getting 25 more yards with this ball is either not hitting the titleist solid, hitting the taylormade a whole lot better (guess thats the same thing) or is lying. The taylormade DOES fly flatter. I hit both into like a 10 MPH breeze and the TMade flattens out great. But guess what? Distance wise in most instances I actually hit the Titleist further!!!! Even though it flies higher?!!? Go figure. If you play in a lot of wind though this ball is a better option of the tee. I live in utopia san diego however so I dont play in much wind. Not a big difference here though overall.

Winner: If you play in the wind go with the TMade here.

 

Durability: There is no debate here. The TM is a more durable ball. It did not sheer at all for me while my X did. This is a cool feature for sure.

Winner: TMade

 

Overall: Look, you guys nailed me. This is a HELL of a golf ball. It is VERY similar to the prov1x. Flies a little lower is WAY more durable feels AWESOME when you hit it solid. TMade has a winner here. However what is the end result, will I switch? The short answer unfortunately is no. I am so used to the titleist that I can just predict what it will do. I need that extra spin around the greens. That was the ONE thing that this ball lacked in comparison. The durability and flatter flight really dont mean much to me. Cost? Its 6 bucks cheaper. Come on. If that REALLY factors in then I guess you should sell your SUV and get a hybrid or something. Ill pay the extra six bucks. If I had to rate them 1-10 with 10 being the perfect ball I would say the titleist is about a 9 and the taylormade is a SOLID 8. I could learn to like the Tmade. But at the end of the day it is just not better than the X for me. PM me if you have questions hopefully this sums it up!!!

[jstan]

Thanks for the good review! So the red has a flatter trajectory, does that give it a better roll out or are they still about the same in that category?

[SDGolfing]

Thanks for the good review! So the red has a flatter trajectory, does that give it a better roll out or are they still about the same in that category?

 

That is tough to say. I hit the ball a long ways (180MPH ball speed) so I rarely get to see how much a ball rolls. All i can do is see the end results. Honestly though man I just did not see one being deeper than the other. All this technology is so good these days at the higher swingspeeds the differences are really negligble. A ball can only go so far. I would like to test this ball in stiffer winds though. One would assume the flatter trajectory would equal more roll out however one could also assume in a non windy condition the X would fly further. Either way its a pretty good ball in comparison I just like the X better around the greens.

[JeffreySpicoli]

Here's the info that you requested, gumpy.

 

SW test: "GolfLabs preset its robot to swing a sand wedge at 76 mph swing speed, 80 mph ball speed, 38.5 degree launch angle, and 10,500 rpm."

 

Some of the results . . .

 

Titleist Pro V1x 12,299

Bridgestone e5+ 12,140

TaylorMade TP Black 12,062

Titleist Pro V1 11,914

TaylorMade TP Red 11,872

TaylorMade Burner TP 10,894

Titleist NXT Tour 10,612

Top-Flite Gamer 10,087

 

All of the above were in the "High-Spin Balls" category.

 

For reference, here are the highest & lowest in each of the three categories:

 

High-Spin Balls: Nike One Platinum 13,451 and Callaway Tour ix 9,990

Medium-Spin Balls: Wilson Staff Fifty 9,546 and Noodle+ Lady 7,453

Low-Spin Balls: Nike Juice 312 7,192 and Pinnacle Gold FX Soft 5,154

[gumpy]

Here's the info that you requested, gumpy.

 

SW test: "GolfLabs preset its robot to swing a sand wedge at 76 mph swing speed, 80 mph ball speed, 38.5 degree launch angle, and 10,500 rpm."

 

Some of the results . . .

 

Titleist Pro V1x 12,299

Bridgestone e5+ 12,140

TaylorMade TP Black 12,062

Titleist Pro V1 11,914

TaylorMade TP Red 11,872

TaylorMade Burner TP 10,894

Titleist NXT Tour 10,612

Top-Flite Gamer 10,087

 

All of the above were in the "High-Spin Balls" category.

 

For reference, here are the highest & lowest in each of the three categories:

 

High-Spin Balls: Nike One Platinum 13,451 and Callaway Tour ix 9,990

Medium-Spin Balls: Wilson Staff Fifty 9,546 and Noodle+ Lady 7,453

Low-Spin Balls: Nike Juice 312 7,192 and Pinnacle Gold FX Soft 5,154

 

 

Thanks heaps Matt

 

so is 76 mph ss reasonable to you guys?

 

I guess a top player would hit the SW that hard right?

 

Wow the e5 really spins...

[JeffreySpicoli]

The robot presets for the SW seem reasonable to me.