Rule Question: When to Pull the Flagstick?

[InTheHole]

Newbie question: :rolleyes:

 

OK, I've done some searches here on GolfWrx and looked through the rules, but couldn't find the actual rule... plus different people have given me different answers.

 

What is the rule(s) on pulling the flagstick from the hole? And when should it, and should it not, be attended? And what are the penalties if it is not pulled at the correct time?

 

Thanks!

[LP28]

Newbie question: :rolleyes:

 

OK, I've done some searches here on GolfWrx and looked through the rules, but couldn't find the actual rule... plus different people have given me different answers.

 

What is the rule(s) on pulling the flagstick from the hole? And when should it, and should it not, be attended? And what are the penalties if it is not pulled at the correct time?

 

Thanks!

 

You can pull the flagstick from the hole at any time whether on or off the green...........even if you are 200 yards out and want the pin removed you have the right to remove it!! Same goes for tending the flag - you can have it tended anywhere on or off the green....and yes, if you are 200 yards out and want your caddy to tend the pin you have the right to do that. That being said, anytime you have someone tending the pin they should pull the stick out of the cup(even if you are hitting from off the green). Another words, if you are chipping from the rough and want the pin tended by your caddy and you make your stroke but the caddy decides the ball is rolling to quick to go in if the stick is out of the hole, he can't leave the stick in and let the ball hit the pin....or else it's a 2-stroke penalty(I believe??). Now, if you have the pin tended on the green and make your stroke and the ball has no chance to go in the hole the person tending it may just leave the pin in b/c they know the ball is not going to go in.

[nofeargolf]

If you are off the green, you have an option of pulling the flagstick, having it attended, or leaving it in. If you opt to have someone tend it, they only have to pull it before the ball arrives. If it hits the stick while still in the hole, no penalty.

 

If your ball is on the green, you can have the flagstick attended, but it must be pulled before the ball reaches the hole. No one has to be holding it when you putt, but they do have to be in the general vicinity of the hole. If the ball hits a flagstick that is in the hole, it is a penalty.

 

That's it in a nutshell...

[LP28]

If you are off the green, you have an option of pulling the flagstick, having it attended, or leaving it in. If you opt to have someone tend it, they only have to pull it before the ball arrives. If it hits the stick while still in the hole, no penalty.

 

If your ball is on the green, you can have the flagstick attended, but it must be pulled before the ball reaches the hole. No one has to be holding it when you putt, but they do have to be in the general vicinity of the hole. If the ball hits a flagstick that is in the hole, it is a penalty.

 

That's it in a nutshell...

 

I may be wrong here but I was always under the impression that if you opt to have the pin tended while off the putting green that they had to remove the pin before the ball holed out or else it was a 2-stroke penalty??

[InTheHole]

Thanks for the replies!

 

That clarifies a lot.

 

OK, the flip-side question that really started this for me... I was told that if you putted the ball while on the green and within 20 feet of the hole, and the flag was in the hole, that was a 2-stroke penalty. It didn't matter if it was attended or if the ball hit the pin. Putt within 20 feet with the flag, add 2.

[Mizgoodie]

i was watching a classic golf, on golf channel and they would putt out with the flag in, is that a penalty?

[LP28]

Thanks for the replies!

 

That clarifies a lot.

 

OK, the flip-side question that really started this for me... I was told that if you putted the ball while on the green and within 20 feet of the hole, and the flag was in the hole, that was a 2-stroke penalty. It didn't matter if it was attended or if the ball hit the pin. Putt within 20 feet with the flag, add 2.

 

That is definitely not true :rolleyes: !!

[Pepperturbo]

Newbie question: :rolleyes:

 

OK, I've done some searches here on GolfWrx and looked through the rules, but couldn't find the actual rule... plus different people have given me different answers.

 

What is the rule(s) on pulling the flagstick from the hole? And when should it, and should it not, be attended? And what are the penalties if it is not pulled at the correct time?

 

Thanks!

 

Let me say answer you this way... if I am chipping and the topography is acceptable - most of the time I'll either pull the pin or ask someone near by to pull it. It should be pulled when a player requests such, or his ball is nearing the hole. If by accident it's not pulled in time, it's a 2 stroke penalty to the player.

 

If I face a really long putt where the cup is difficult to see I typically ask for the pin to be tended until I am ready and say pull it. If I believe the person I am playing with is a beginner - I tell them to stand on shadow side of the cup so the cup isn't hidden. Typically if the putt is no more then 20-30 I have it pulled.

[Pepperturbo]

Thanks for the replies!

 

That clarifies a lot.

 

OK, the flip-side question that really started this for me... I was told that if you putted the ball while on the green and within 20 feet of the hole, and the flag was in the hole, that was a 2-stroke penalty. It didn't matter if it was attended or if the ball hit the pin. Putt within 20 feet with the flag, add 2.

 

Wrong - 2 stroke penalty is assessed if the ball hits the pin regardless; even if the pin is laying in the background away from the hole, and your ball is struck hard enough for it to reach the pin.

[KevCarter]

Please disregard opinions and peek at rule 17 which answers ALL your questions.

 

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html

 

Kevin

[hoganfan924]

i was watching a classic golf, on golf channel and they would putt out with the flag in, is that a penalty?

 

 

It is today, but at one time this was allowed within the rules, but the rule was changed (I think in the late 1950's). But we used to have Stymies too and OB at one time was only a distance penalty. Another time it was only a stroke penalty. Rules change.

[manymulligan]

a related question-- what if the caddy pulls the pin and pulls the metal cup out with it? is this a penalty if the ball goes in? how about if it does not go in?

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1218067526' post='1200934']
Please disregard opinions and peek at rule 17 which answers ALL your questions.

[url="http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html"]http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html[/url]

Kevin
[/quote]

Yes, it's upsetting to me that someone asks a question after being confused and is thereafter assaulted with misinformation.

Here is a segment from your suggested Rule research which is clearly at odds with some information her:


"If the flagstick is not attended, removed or held up before the player makes a stroke, it must not be attended, removed or held up during the stroke or while the player's ball is in motion if doing so might influence the movement of the ball."

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='manymulligan' timestamp='1433188241' post='11668550']
a related question-- what if the caddy pulls the pin and pulls the metal cup out with it? is this a penalty if the ball goes in? how about if it does not go in?
[/quote]

Go on the USGA's site and read Decisions 17/7 and 17/8 for a comprehensive answer.

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1433188855' post='11668644']
[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1218067526' post='1200934']
Please disregard opinions and peek at rule 17 which answers ALL your questions.

[url="http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html"]http://www.usga.org/...ooks/rules.html[/url]

Kevin
[/quote]

Yes, it's upsetting to me that someone asks a question after being confused and is thereafter assaulted with misinformation.
[/quote]

And the OP and Kev forgot about this thread years ago!

[KevCarter]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1433190368' post='11668884']
[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1433188855' post='11668644']
[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1218067526' post='1200934']
Please disregard opinions and peek at rule 17 which answers ALL your questions.

[url="http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html"]http://www.usga.org/...ooks/rules.html[/url]

Kevin
[/quote]

Yes, it's upsetting to me that someone asks a question after being confused and is thereafter assaulted with misinformation.
[/quote]

And the OP and Kev forgot about this thread years ago!
[/quote]

LOL

I read my quote and thought I was being a little rude. I thought maybe someone else had written it and confused me with someone else...

Now I saw the date and get it. That was another lifetime when I could still play golf!!! LOL

Kevin

[KevCarter]

[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1433190691' post='11668938']
[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1433190368' post='11668884']
[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1433188855' post='11668644']
[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1218067526' post='1200934']
Please disregard opinions and peek at rule 17 which answers ALL your questions.

[url="http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html"]http://www.usga.org/...ooks/rules.html[/url]

Kevin
[/quote]

Yes, it's upsetting to me that someone asks a question after being confused and is thereafter assaulted with misinformation.
[/quote]

And the OP and Kev forgot about this thread years ago!
[/quote]

LOL

I read my quote and thought I was being a little rude. I thought maybe someone else had written it and confused me with someone else...

Now I saw the date and get it. That was another lifetime when I could still play golf!!! LOL

Kevin
[/quote]

That post I just entered didn't even make any sense. See how shaken up you have me Howie!?!?!?

[HitEmTrue]

Kev, hope you get to play again soon!

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1433190368' post='11668884']
[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1433188855' post='11668644']
[quote name='kevcarter' timestamp='1218067526' post='1200934']
Please disregard opinions and peek at rule 17 which answers ALL your questions.

[url="http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules.html"]http://www.usga.org/...ooks/rules.html[/url]

Kevin
[/quote]

Yes, it's upsetting to me that someone asks a question after being confused and is thereafter assaulted with misinformation.
[/quote]

And the OP and Kev forgot about this thread years ago!
[/quote]

Guess I forgot to turn my Apple Watch to 2015! (Thanks for the observation.)

I wonder if Kevin feels my complement to him is too long due? (Before the time of "likes", so I'm awarding a retroactive one.)

Well, while unknowingly fretting about things long passed, at least I also answered a current question!

[Sawgrass]

I'm disappointed to see that Kevin thinks he was rude when I viewed his comment as accurate, helpful and quite civil.

I suspect I need to be recalibrated. Preferably by one of those super-nice Midwesterners we with New York heritage are always hearing about.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1433191221' post='11669014']
I'm disappointed to see that Kevin thinks he was rude when I viewed his comment as accurate, helpful and quite civil.

I suspect I need to be recalibrated. Preferably by one of those super-nice Midwesterners we with New York heritage are always hearing about.
[/quote]

LOL I just had to find the context. Honestly, when I first saw it I thought "I can't remember writing that!" I thought I was developing Alzheimer's along with my other issues. I give myself a max of 1 month that I have to remember anything. Glad HitEmTrue cleared it up for me before I really went bananas. LOL

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1433190908' post='11668966']
Kev, hope you get to play again soon!
[/quote]

Thanks Man!!!

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1433191221' post='11669014']
I'm disappointed to see that Kevin thinks he was rude when I viewed his comment as accurate, helpful and quite civil.

I suspect I need to be recalibrated. Preferably by one of those super-nice Midwesterners we with New York heritage are always hearing about.
[/quote]

Well, I'm sure I'm half of that description. ;-)

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='LP28' timestamp='1218052190' post='1200589']
You can pull the flagstick from the hole at any time whether on or off the green...........even if you are 200 yards out and want the pin removed you have the right to remove it!! Same goes for tending the flag - you can have it tended anywhere on or off the green....and yes, if you are 200 yards out and want your caddy to tend the pin you have the right to do that.
[/quote]

As a referee I would ask the player this question: 'Why would you want your caddie to attend the flagstick when you are 200 yds away?'

I cannot see any rational reason for the flagstick to be removed or attended at such a distance. Even though Rule 17-1 gives a player that right it could be considered as undue delay, and without an excellent answer from the player I would tell him not to do it if it delays the game (which is evident as the caddie has to run that 200 yds).

D22/3 is somewhat related to this.

[Colin L]

[quote name='manymulligan' timestamp='1433188241' post='11668550']
a related question-- what if the caddy pulls the pin and pulls the metal cup out with it? is this a penalty if the ball goes in? how about if it does not go in?
[/quote]

I don't think this has been answered. If the ball goes in, it is holed (Decision 17-7) ; if it doesn't go in it obviously isn't holed ); if it hits the liner when the liner is moving, the stroke is cancelled and the putt must be retaken ; or if it hits the liner when the liner isn't moving, the ball must be played where it lies. No penalty in either case. (Decision 17-8)

[Preduck]

[quote name='Mr. Bean' timestamp='1433329624' post='11680336']
[quote name='LP28' timestamp='1218052190' post='1200589']
You can pull the flagstick from the hole at any time whether on or off the green...........even if you are 200 yards out and want the pin removed you have the right to remove it!! Same goes for tending the flag - you can have it tended anywhere on or off the green....and yes, if you are 200 yards out and want your caddy to tend the pin you have the right to do that.
[/quote]

As a referee I would ask the player this question: 'Why would you want your caddie to attend the flagstick when you are 200 yds away?'

I cannot see any rational reason for the flagstick to be removed or attended at such a distance. Even though Rule 17-1 gives a player that right it could be considered as undue delay, and without an excellent answer from the player I would tell him not to do it if it delays the game (which is evident as the caddie has to run that 200 yds).

D22/3 is somewhat related to this.
[/quote]

Phil did it at Torrey pines on 18 from about 75 out if I remember correctly since he was afraid of hitting the pin and having it go into the water. I'm sure Tiger wishes that pin wasn't in on 15th at Augusta in 2013. Probably cost him the Masters that year. I'd say there are some very extreme situations when tending the pin at significant distances would be reasonable for pros at their request.

[gopherguts]

It's funny.

In today's college coverage this guy "Pierce" (a human rain delay BTW) is putting from about 50 feet and his opponent is tending the flag and as the ball gets to about 10 feet away or so discovers the flag isn't coming out quite so easily. He does get it out in time even though the putt was wide.

What if he couldn't pull it and his opponent hits the stick while still in the hole ?

Anybody know how/if they apply a slow play rule in this tourney ? This Pierce guy makes Ben Crane look like Rickie.

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='Preduck' timestamp='1433390231' post='11686556']
[quote name='Mr. Bean' timestamp='1433329624' post='11680336']
[quote name='LP28' timestamp='1218052190' post='1200589']
You can pull the flagstick from the hole at any time whether on or off the green...........even if you are 200 yards out and want the pin removed you have the right to remove it!! Same goes for tending the flag - you can have it tended anywhere on or off the green....and yes, if you are 200 yards out and want your caddy to tend the pin you have the right to do that.
[/quote]

As a referee I would ask the player this question: 'Why would you want your caddie to attend the flagstick when you are 200 yds away?'

I cannot see any rational reason for the flagstick to be removed or attended at such a distance. Even though Rule 17-1 gives a player that right it could be considered as undue delay, and without an excellent answer from the player I would tell him not to do it if it delays the game (which is evident as the caddie has to run that 200 yds).

D22/3 is somewhat related to this.
[/quote]

Phil did it at Torrey pines on 18 from about 75 out if I remember correctly since he was afraid of hitting the pin and having it go into the water. I'm sure Tiger wishes that pin wasn't in on 15th at Augusta in 2013. Probably cost him the Masters that year. I'd say there are some very extreme situations when tending the pin at significant distances would be reasonable for pros at their request.
[/quote]

Absolutely, but not likely from 200 yds. But as I wrote 'without an excellent answer from the player'.

[Colin L]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1433391872' post='11686672']
It's funny.

In today's college coverage this guy "Pierce" (a human rain delay BTW) is putting from about 50 feet and his opponent is tending the flag and as the ball gets to about 10 feet away or so discovers the flag isn't coming out quite so easily. He does get it out in time even though the putt was wide.

What if he couldn't pull it and his opponent hits the stick while still in the hole ?
[/quote]

It is loss of hole just the same. The sportsmanlike gesture on the part of the opponent would be to concede the next hole.

In stroke play it would be a 2 stroke penalty to the player and since the fellow competitor could not make any sporting gesture to compensate, he would probably have to be taken to A&E to have the flagstick removed. You may decided for yourselves from which orifice.

[Mr. Bean]

[quote name='Colin L' timestamp='1433402266' post='11687022']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1433391872' post='11686672']
It's funny.

In today's college coverage this guy "Pierce" (a human rain delay BTW) is putting from about 50 feet and his opponent is tending the flag and as the ball gets to about 10 feet away or so discovers the flag isn't coming out quite so easily. He does get it out in time even though the putt was wide.

What if he couldn't pull it and his opponent hits the stick while still in the hole ?
[/quote]

It is loss of hole just the same. The sportsmanlike gesture on the part of the opponent would be to concede the next hole.

In stroke play it would be a 2 stroke penalty to the player and since the fellow competitor could not make any sporting gesture to compensate, he would probably have to be taken to A&E to have the flagstick removed. You may decided for yourselves from which orifice.
[/quote]

Good answer, Colin, in every aspect.

[Colin L]

Except for "You may decided for yourselves ......"