Golf pace patience

[GregFos]

After reading some posts in another thread, I was just curious: How many of you are patient with new golfers concerning their pace, and how many think new golfers should do whatever they need to (take a drop, skip a hole) to keep up the pace?

[Bomb and Gouge]

You can do both.

 

Most of my friends suck but I'm patient w/ them and they keep pace. It's a matter of teaching them the correct etiquette.

 

It's really not that difficult. There's no reason to spend more than 20 seconds looking for balls in fescue.

 

One of my friends used to take an inordinate amount of time addressing the ball and hitting his shot. I suggested he address the ball, take a practice swing, get set and hit. Simple! But I needed to suggest that to him. New golfers need YOUR help! Getting frustrated and angry isn't going to help anyone.

 

If it's not someone you know ask them, "Would you mind if I offered some advice?" (not swing advice and s*** like that!) And if they say "No!", then it's time to let them know that what they're doing is disrespectful to the rest of the players on the course.

 

If they insist on taking five minutes to look for LOST balls, let them know that you're going to play ready golf and that you'll see them on the green or the next tee box...or in the clubhouse. :tongue:

[RichardL_NYC]

Being a newbie golfer myself, I've always made it my priority on the golf course to keep the pace up. It usually meant picking up the ball and dropping it closer to the hole. My philosophy is, would you rather take say 100 shots over 18 holes or 100 shots over 9 holes? It's hard for people to understand that picking up the pace doesn't necessarily mean you are taking less shots. Even with people I know, it's hard for them to swallow their pride and pick up the ball. Other times they just get angry and there's really nothing I can do about that :) I've also suggested to my fellow newbs to buy recycled balls (which are around 50 cents a piece for really good brands). That way, if they can't find their ball, they have no problem taking another out of the bag (because they are so cheap). I've found that most golfers can't take criticism. You golfers are a sensitive bunch hehe.

[flubbed_it]

Everyone has gone through a phase of learning, when you fat, thin and shank your way around a course. It's important to let new players know that they are as entitled to be there as anyone. You see them sometimes rushing and getting in a flap. If your not playing well, get some rubbish balls, have a quick look for your lost one and then take a drop. I save crap balls that I find for friends who are "trajectorially" (new word) challenged.

 

Also in social golf, it makes sense for whoever is ready to take their shot, get on with it rather than everyone standing around waiting for people to sort themselves out. That goes for putting as well.

 

If learners know that If they drop a hole, they should let a group through, then nobody can complain.

[RangerEsq.]

There's a HUGE difference with "just a new golfer" and "a new golfer who knows the etiquette."

 

You know what I mean, I think.

 

If the new golfer ahead of me is absolutely terrible at the game but knows how to play "ready golf" by getting to the ball quickly and knows the rules, knows the penalty rules, knows the pace rules, how to repair divots, knows where to put his bag, knows to move quickly between shots, knows how to behave properly and keep up with his own group to not slow them down, and so on and so forth - then it's OK - at least the dude is making an effort and respects the game, himself, and others too.

 

But - earlier this year, I did play in a formal Tournament of both good players and bad, that took 6 & 1/2 hours, so there you go.

[Placebo]

If the new golfer ahead of me is absolutely terrible at the game but knows how to play "ready golf" by getting to the ball quickly and knows the rules, knows the penalty rules, knows the pace rules, how to repair divots, knows where to put his bag, knows to move quickly between shots, knows how to behave properly and keep up with his own group to not slow them down, and so on and so forth - then it's OK - at least the dude is making an effort and respects the game, himself, and others too.

I would consider that an "experienced" golfer as opposed to a "new golfer".

[BS66]

Depends on their experience. If they are truly new to the game then it's about learning etiquette to help pick up the pace. If they just flat out suck and know the proper ettiquette and are still slow, then I don't have much patience. I think the biggest thing is respecting the course and the players around you as others have suggested. If they do both, then I can take it a lot longer.

[InTheHole]

It comes down to intent, as others have suggested.

 

I was recently behind a father-son duo who did all the wrong things on the course. Stopped to have a conversation on each hole, took 10-15 minutes to look for a ball, took 2-3 minutes of practice swings, and the cat's meow... on the last hole stood there packing up their golf bags right on the green (the flag was still on the ground!), covering their bag with the rain hood, and adding up their score- all while my son and I were waiting to tee off (it was a short par-3).

 

I am a beginner but I try to be a good golf-citizen by always playing ready golf and letting others play through if they are faster.

 

The bottom line is to be considerate of and aware of others around you.

[flubbed_it]

There is another side to this, what annoys me more is the guy who knows it's a slow day, struts around on the tee behind you. He has seen you wait for the group in front to clear the green but thinks he can speed up play by running his ball up to you before yours hits the green on your approach shot. It's the hand on the hip as he waits that bugs me most. This specimen is often a mid capper with an "octopus falling out of a tree" swing and is the first to pressure the newbies even when their not slow.

[Bomb and Gouge]

... thinks he can speed up play by running his ball up to you before yours hits the green on your approach shot.

 

 

Knock it back to him. A good way to kill time if nothing else. ;)

[InTheHole]

I LOVE that. I can just see the look on the guy's face when the ball comes flying back to the tee box! :nono:

[Mark_Crossan]

its not just new people though,

if you watch pro's, take j.b holmes for example, no disrespect to him but he takes a fair amount of time before every shot, he hits it along way but still takes ages.

An 80 and a 65 can still take the same time, just depends on the person.

[Yuck]

My Dad had the belief that anyone ought to be able to Shoot 120 or less in 3.5 hours walking. As kids, if we got sidetracked with a lost ball, a frog or a turtle my dad would keep on cruising and we would have to call Mom to give us a ride home. My wife and I are most comfortable at a 3 hour Pace, and she has done that since she was a beginner. Unfortunately, too many people believe 4 or 4:15 is an acceptable pace, so we have to tee off early if we don't want to wait. The score you shoot and the pace of play are often not correlated at all. Just tell the beginners the woods are filled with venomous snakes and hungry bears, and there won't be as much desire to spend 5+ minutes looking for the lost Pinnacle or Noodle.

[highergr0und]

When I was a new golfer, I played best ball with my dad. I would hit, he would, then we'd grab my ball and go to his. He wasn't that good (avg 50 per 9) but we moved. It was awesome when we used my shot, and after a while I could hold my own. On the flip side I played behind a father/son a few weeks ago where the father would let the kid take two shots pretty much every time (as well as two shots a lot himself). Drove me nuts, so I asked them if we could play through. It sped me up a little, and I didn't have to watch it any more. I wouldn't expect people to skip holes, but I do think that you ought to let people play through, and if at all possible, play in the afternoons when the course is less busy.

[RangerEsq.]

My Dad had the belief that anyone ought to be able to Shoot 120 or less in 3.5 hours walking. As kids, if we got sidetracked with a lost ball, a frog or a turtle my dad would keep on cruising and we would have to call Mom to give us a ride home. My wife and I are most comfortable at a 3 hour Pace, and she has done that since she was a beginner. Unfortunately, too many people believe 4 or 4:15 is an acceptable pace, so we have to tee off early if we don't want to wait. The score you shoot and the pace of play are often not correlated at all. Just tell the beginners the woods are filled with venomous snakes and hungry bears, and there won't be as much desire to spend 5+ minutes looking for the lost Pinnacle or Noodle.

 

3.5 hours walking?

Yeah but that was when a normal golf course was less than 6500 yards. Now most golf courses of any "proper" modern size are over 6800 yards, and are built with holes too far apart from each other to be able to walk it in less than 4, and so it may have been possible to do so back in the day, but not now.

 

There is a serious misconception about the balance between the "pace of play" and the length and difficulty of the course - because honestly, when the courses are as long as they are these days, I will not expect a round to be finished in 4 hours on a normal day. I would be amazed if anybody can do it walking. Looking at the courses around me - 9 out of 10 are over 6800 from the Men's tees, and from the back some of them are 7100+. They're fun, but tough courses. If the courses had been there from a long time ago they have been fixed and lengthened to accommodate the modern equipment. If they're newer, they're cut into some crazy canyons and hills and so you'd be dead by the time you make the turn. They're not PGA style courses that are walkable. Some of the courses won't let you walk!!!!! You have to drive the cart, exactly for that reason. Sure that may not be considered a traditional course, but you'll play them, nonetheless. Even with strong legs you'd be hard-pressed to pull or carry your clubs up and down them hills.

Even if the courses were on a general, flat, rolling terrain as traditional courses are - I doubt most people would want to rush around in less than 4, it will ruin their round from rushing around so fast; it certainly will not help their game.

 

That isn't to say that it isn't refreshing and nice - it is -

to see the groups ahead showing you that they know the rules and etiqutte and that they respect the pace of play and the future quality of the course - we can only hope that they all do and make the effort too.

[flubbed_it]

On the flip side I played behind a father/son a few weeks ago where the father would let the kid take two shots pretty much every time (as well as two shots a lot himself). Drove me nuts, so I asked them if we could play through. It sped me up a little, and I didn't have to watch it any more. I wouldn't expect people to skip holes, but I do think that you ought to let people play through, and if at all possible, play in the afternoons when the course is less busy.

Some people might disagree but I think it is ok for him to teach his son at quiet times on the course, how else is he going to learn course management, but he should have known better than have to be asked if you could play through.

[larrybud]

My Dad had the belief that anyone ought to be able to Shoot 120 or less in 3.5 hours walking. As kids, if we got sidetracked with a lost ball, a frog or a turtle my dad would keep on cruising and we would have to call Mom to give us a ride home. My wife and I are most comfortable at a 3 hour Pace, and she has done that since she was a beginner. Unfortunately, too many people believe 4 or 4:15 is an acceptable pace, so we have to tee off early if we don't want to wait.

 

4:00 is a time, not a pace.

 

There are a lot of different types of courses, which is why an all-encompassing absolute time doesn't work. 4 hours on one course might be slow, while on another it might be fast. I play a couple of courses in the area which probably add 20 minutes just with drive time from green to the next tee. Pretty much impossible to walk. I've played courses where 4:30 was "fast". It ALL comes down to how much waiting you are doing, not how much time you're actually on the course.

 

No way you could walk 3 hours on my home course, even as a two-some. It's too long and too hilly. I'm lucky to walk it in 3 hours by myself, and I'm a pretty fast player. The course is 7,200 yards from the tips plus probably another 2500 between holes.

[harold baines]

you'd be surprised how many shots someone can take and not fall behind pace if they don't have silly pre-shot rituals

 

I do strongly think that beginners should be playing on par 3 courses, spending time on the range, playing evenings, for some time before logging prime tee times. There are plenty of places to "earn your wings" before stepping up to a full course

 

golf ettiquite is very picky, and not intuitive to new golfers, it takes time and more experienced golfers to teach.

[Bomb and Gouge]

Good points, Harold Baines (one of my favorite players ever).

 

Par-3 courses are excellent for new golfers and they can really help build confidence.

[golfortennis]

Good points, Harold Baines (one of my favorite players ever).

 

Par-3 courses are excellent for new golfers and they can really help build confidence.

 

That is the thing I harp on with newbies. I'm not trying to be a hard*ss, but one of the things that gets lost in this is that a person actually needs to learn the game. I didn't go try and play in the NHL when I started playing hockey a few years ago, and I didn't step onto Shepherd's Hollow when I started either. I played lots of par 3 courses and executive courses to learn. Only once I felt that things were somewhat under control did I move to the big courses. And I practiced. I spent the time on the range.

 

Those things are solely lacking from a newbie's itinerary these days from what I gather.

[Ronzo]

There is another side to this, what annoys me more is the guy who knows it's a slow day, struts around on the tee behind you. He has seen you wait for the group in front to clear the green but thinks he can speed up play by running his ball up to you before yours hits the green on your approach shot. It's the hand on the hip as he waits that bugs me most. This specimen is often a mid capper with an "octopus falling out of a tree" swing and is the first to pressure the newbies even when their not slow.

 

So, you HAVE played Sunrise CC!

 

Had a threesome of those morons playing behind us two weeks ago. They hit up to the green while I was lining up to putt and my buddy was just off the green. On a par 5. With the next tee occupied in front of us. From 130 yards away!

[golfortennis]

There is another side to this, what annoys me more is the guy who knows it's a slow day, struts around on the tee behind you. He has seen you wait for the group in front to clear the green but thinks he can speed up play by running his ball up to you before yours hits the green on your approach shot. It's the hand on the hip as he waits that bugs me most. This specimen is often a mid capper with an "octopus falling out of a tree" swing and is the first to pressure the newbies even when their not slow.

 

So, you HAVE played Sunrise CC!

 

Had a threesome of those morons playing behind us two weeks ago. They hit up to the green while I was lining up to putt and my buddy was just off the green. On a par 5. With the next tee occupied in front of us. From 130 yards away!

 

Played a course called The ORchards near Detroit this summer. On the second tee we see there will be a backup, there is a 4some in front who are slow. My buddy are just two, in a cart because we didn't know you could walk. A twosome that's walking comes up and we ask if they want to join since they will be waiting. one guy says no, the other guy is not very social. Suit yourself. On that hole, a long par 5 my second shot was lost. Should have played provisional, but the fescue didn't look that thick. Since the other guys were just going to the tee, I went back and replayed the ball, offered to let thim hit up as well, since the cart would take me back up quicker. No they didn't want to do that. Fine.

 

On the back nine, at about 15 or so, they hit their ball that rolls up about 10 yards behind us. When we're on the green, the one guy is laying down in the fairway. I don't know what he was expecting, because the group in front of us was clearly visible the whole time. Had another ball come near us, I would have had to send it back to him so he could play the shot he intended, not the one that accidentally came near us.....

 

Seriously, what did he expect? He would have likely enjoyed the round more, and we would have ditched the cart at the turn if we walked with them.

[Kreth]

I didn't go try and play in the NHL when I started playing hockey a few years ago, and I didn't step onto Shepherd's Hollow when I started either.

I don't think this is a fair comparison. Unless you happen to be on the Tour, you're not playing at the golfing equivalent of the NHL.

[harold baines]

I didn't go try and play in the NHL when I started playing hockey a few years ago, and I didn't step onto Shepherd's Hollow when I started either.

I don't think this is a fair comparison. Unless you happen to be on the Tour, you're not playing at the golfing equivalent of the NHL.

 

the point is, there are places designed for beginners to hone their skills before they start playing full length courses

 

any beginning golfer needs to put in some time other places before they start on a full length course, they need to learn how to hit the ball correctly and learn proper etiquite

 

if it's your first, third, even tenth time ever playing you don't have any business on a full length course (unless you're playing during way off peak times)

[Bomb and Gouge]

I started off by going to the driving range for two years. My first rounds were on a course me and my friends built at the local park. We set up three or four holes on the football and soccer fields. (basically we stuck flags into the ground)

 

We even had a par three over some water. Had to yell "Fore!" at the fishermen!

 

It wasn't until three or four years later that my buddy's dad actually took us to a real course. And it was only a par-3 course.

 

So by the time I made it to a big boy's course, I was able to get around pretty well. And I knew the basic rules and etiquette as well.

 

Anyway, that's how I started off (not saying everyone needs to do that). ;)

[GregFos]

I went to the driving range occasionally for years before ever even trying a par 3 golf course. Tried that a couple times, then went to a full-length golf course. I always tried (still do) to keep pace, even if it means picking up my ball. So I was just curious what the general consensus was.

[harold baines]

as long as you don't have a big pre-shot routine you should be fine

 

 

I always hate to see someone pick their ball up