Tour Concept, KBS Tour, Proj X

[enterprise920]

Objective Reasoning Please

objectivley i.e i don't need any feedback like "i like project x, they feel better then anything else" or "kbs tours are really good, i dont know why more people dont use them" I'm going to tell you what i think, and then hopefully someone can explain the technical reason why i might be feeling what im feeling.

Tour Concept: i have been playing TC x1's tipped an inch for over 2 years now with no complaints other then the occasional long iron flying a bit far. To me they feel like super stable graphite. I don't plan on leaving this shaft but im just curious about other stuff

Dynamic Gold X100: great...consistent, no distance control problems but they feel wobbly compared to the TC's

Project X: i have a set of 7.5 non flighted on the way. Ive tried 6.0 flighter, 6.5 non flighted and 7.0 flighted/non flighted, and ill tell you i hook the crud out of them. To me even the 7.0 non flighted feels quite a bit weaker then the TCx1, im hoping 7.5's will rectify this

KBS Tour: I have no experience with them, i have no idea how much they weigh, what their bend profile is, or why any tour players chooses to try them.

any clubmakers out there make some sense of all this jibberish? Mainly give me some data on the kbs tours. hehe

[OldSkoolTexan]

Damn son, I thought I could bring the pain!  lol  I didnt even know they MADE 7.5s......  Are the Tour Concept really that sweet?  Sounds like I need to lace em up and give em a try.

[xdhammerbx]

kbs. just started playing them... theyre stiffer than x1s but feel much smoother.. and lighter!

 

i actually lowered my ball flight and got some more distance!

[OldSkoolTexan]

kbs. just started playing them... theyre stiffer than x1s but feel much smoother.. and lighter!

 

i actually lowered my ball flight and got some more distance!

 

6.5s, 7.0s or xtra  manly 7.5s?

[Grum]

I wouldn't agree with xdhammerbx. I'm seeing a higher ball flight with KBS over DG's, although at first feel very butt stiff(and theres a good reason for this...), while 'feeling' quite light. The flight is somewhat similar to non flighted PX, that it gets up quick, but flattens out nicely. Where I think they shine is the stability they offer(alot like PX for me), but they are very good feeling shafts. They will frequency quite high, and swingweight low. reason behind this is that unlike a traditional shaft, the weight balance is towards the butt of the shaft, rather than in the tip serving as 're-enforcement' for the tip. The result is a very butt stable and stiff shaft. X flex is 130g. if you want to go into the region of 7-7.5's you'll need to hard-step taper's(not sure if there are 7.0's or 7.5's/XX's available custom if you ask), or go to parallel .370 tips.

[TourTECH]

Grum's assessment of the KB's is right on. Higher flight, butt stiff and tip soft. Will Freq higher than they feel like. Personally thought they were whippy compared to DG. Will have to add head weight to achieve reasonable swingweight b/c they are counterbalanced.

 

 

I've built quite a few sets with project X for clients and can say, in my opinion, that it is a terrible product, at least quality and consistency wise. I personally find the feel to be light and harsh with very inconsistent dispersion...but there are a lot of them on tour. (However, many PX players are switching to KB and DG)

 

 

Question for Uno: Did you have to Bore your heads to parallel to fit the TC's? These shafts only come in taper tip...never tipped tapers before, especially an inch. I have a set of blades with TC satin X1's in them and they are very consistent, but tend to favor more of a swinger that picks the ball. I tend to be more of a leverage player that takes good divots...did tipping them an inch change this characteristic in your opinion?

:rockon:

[enterprise920]

Grum's assessment of the KB's is right on. Higher flight, butt stiff and tip soft. Will Freq higher than they feel like. Personally thought they were whippy compared to DG. Will have to add head weight to achieve reasonable swingweight b/c they are counterbalanced.

 

 

I've built quite a few sets with project X for clients and can say, in my opinion, that it is a terrible product, at least quality and consistency wise. I personally find the feel to be light and harsh with very inconsistent dispersion...but there are a lot of them on tour. (However, many PX players are switching to KB and DG)

 

 

Question for Uno: Did you have to Bore your heads to parallel to fit the TC's? These shafts only come in taper tip...never tipped tapers before, especially an inch. I have a set of blades with TC satin X1's in them and they are very consistent, but tend to favor more of a swinger that picks the ball. I tend to be more of a leverage player that takes good divots...did tipping them an inch change this characteristic in your opinion?

:rockon:

 

i really dont hit the ball that far, i just prefer a very stiff shaft. I played cut down steel Wilson Staff blades as a child...12 years old, shaft -6" and they get kinda stiff. I just got use to that feel. I play a comfortable 70% 7 iron at 150-157.

 

my clubmaker said he had no problems tipping them and i trust him. From the Callaway Tour Department, my clubs go straight to my clubmaker where he busts them apart and rebuilds them, making sure they are exactly what i want. I trust the guy with my first born!

 

anywho to answer your question, i dont really know if tipping them changed the characteristics much, i just base everything off of feel. I want a shaft to feel smooth but at the same time i never want to feel a shaft "kick". With steel shafts i find that i have to make a DRASTIC change to affect trajectory. i.e drop 40 grams and go down 3 flexes.

[Grum]

An inch of tipping does sound quite alot to fit properly without boring the head out. I know mizuno's will take 1/2" easily, not sure about the cally's though.

[xdhammerbx]

I wouldn't agree with xdhammerbx. I'm seeing a higher ball flight with KBS over DG's, although at first feel very butt stiff(and theres a good reason for this...), while 'feeling' quite light. The flight is somewhat similar to non flighted PX, that it gets up quick, but flattens out nicely. Where I think they shine is the stability they offer(alot like PX for me), but they are very good feeling shafts. They will frequency quite high, and swingweight low. reason behind this is that unlike a traditional shaft, the weight balance is towards the butt of the shaft, rather than in the tip serving as 're-enforcement' for the tip. The result is a very butt stable and stiff shaft. X flex is 130g. if you want to go into the region of 7-7.5's you'll need to hard-step taper's(not sure if there are 7.0's or 7.5's/XX's available custom if you ask), or go to parallel .370 tips.

 

 

 

i agree with all the properties but i felt that DGs launched higher and were more prone to ballooning... KBS seemed to be that goldilocks shaft ..not too heavy, not too stiff feeling, but not too high of a ball flight.."just perfect" i can see why people love them so much.

 

i have long arms and fast hands and the KBS just seem to be a more fitting shaft for me... i tried to like PX but they felt too harsh.. pretty much same results as PX but a better feel with KBS

[Grum]

I'd agree that KBS are lower spin, but I'd still disagree that the KBS launches lower than DG's. DG are about as low launching as off the rack steel shafts get really, I'd guess you were in the wrong flex if you were seeing high balloons.

 

Either way, they work, and thats what matters. Still a bit puzzled with your results, are they parallel or tapers?

[xdhammerbx]

I'd agree that KBS are lower spin, but I'd still disagree that the KBS launches lower than DG's. DG are about as low launching as off the rack steel shafts get really, I'd guess you were in the wrong flex if you were seeing high balloons.

 

Either way, they work, and thats what matters. Still a bit puzzled with your results, are they parallel or tapers?

 

 

Tapered, 6.5

[Natee]

As a long time DGS300 user, I have recently tried KBS Tour Stiff, and would honestly say that the KBS Tour are not a better product, just different. My conclusion about KBS Tour:

 

- bend in the middle of the shaft.

- definitely higher ball flight than DG.

- swing much lighter, much less feeling of clubhead pull on the downswing.

- almost half a club shorter with the same loft and same length compared to DG.

- not any more accurate than DG as many forum members claimed. In fact, the lighter clubhead and bending in the middle make it feel less controllable!

- much less tip stiff than Project X.

- give much smoother feel than Project X and DG.

- easier to load than Project X and DG.

 

I believe KBS Tour is a nice shaft, but there is no magic in it. It does not perform any better than DG, Rifles, or Project X. The black chrome wedge shafts look great, however. I would recommend going one flex stiffer than your regular flex.

[oneaugusta]

An inch of tipping does sound quite alot to fit properly without boring the head out. I know mizuno's will take 1/2" easily, not sure about the cally's though.

You can't tip trim for Mizunoo's, they require .355 taper tip shafts. You can hardstep.

[tquarter]

Natee, I totally agree with your assesment of KBS shafts. I also found the shaft too light, no clubhead feel, higher ball flight and about 1/2 club shorter than the s300.

[rybo]

An inch of tipping does sound quite alot to fit properly without boring the head out. I know mizuno's will take 1/2" easily, not sure about the cally's though.

You can't tip trim for Mizunoo's, they require .355 taper tip shafts. You can hardstep.

 

 

What Grum is saying is due to tolerances of the ID of the hosel bore and the OD of the shaft there is plenty of room to tip a taper tip shaft 1/2" and have no fit up issues. I've heard of people tipping up to 1" but this usually requires the top portion of the hosel to be coned to remove a touch of material so there is enough space for epoxy.

 

Tipping a taper tip is more common than you think.

[MacMia]

I think part of this is a matter of starting point. I play Rifle Flighted 6.0s and have absolutely hated PXs. They felt too boardy, difficult to load, and an all around loss of feel for me. I have tested them side by side in an identical build to my gamers and could not hit them with any level of consistency for distance, dispersion, or feel.

 

Not so on the KBS Tours. In the build, I needed to have my club maker add head weight, but the shafts themselves are much smoother, launch higher and plane out, and very consistent through the set in terms of feel. I will put these shafts into play for 09 in a set of Cally Proto Heads in a new ground up build for swingweight, lie, loft.

[enterprise920]

An inch of tipping does sound quite alot to fit properly without boring the head out. I know mizuno's will take 1/2" easily, not sure about the cally's though.

You can't tip trim for Mizunoo's, they require .355 taper tip shafts. You can hardstep.

 

you can do whatever you want with a little ingenuity...it might not be perfect, but neither is anyones golf swing. Frankenstein clubs are fun...one of the best ones ive ever hit was a Mizuno Fli Hi 18 degree iron shafted with an r7 TP driver shaft cut down 6 inches.

[vanla01]

Not so on the KBS Tours. In the build, I needed to have my club maker add head weight, but the shafts themselves are much smoother, launch higher and plane out, and very consistent through the set in terms of feel. I will put these shafts into play for 09 in a set of Cally Proto Heads in a new ground up build for swingweight, lie, loft.

 

It's fuuny that your doing the samething because I just got my iron set shafted with KBS tours on the callaway Proto's today and now I all I have to do is wait for the snow to melt. I cant wait to test these bad boyz out!!!

[MacMia]

Not so on the KBS Tours. In the build, I needed to have my club maker add head weight, but the shafts themselves are much smoother, launch higher and plane out, and very consistent through the set in terms of feel. I will put these shafts into play for 09 in a set of Cally Proto Heads in a new ground up build for swingweight, lie, loft.

 

It's fuuny that your doing the samething because I just got my iron set shafted with KBS tours on the callaway Proto's today and now I all I have to do is wait for the snow to melt. I cant wait to test these bad boyz out!!!

 

 

The Protos look too good not to audition for the gamers and the forging is nice. That said, I have Rifle 6.0's in them and they feel a little too stout (eventhough I have the same shaft / flex in my TM RAC MBs) My thinking is to go a half flex softer in the KBS Tours, add the headweight to get to a D4.5ish weight playing off a 46 degree PW..