The Nationwide Tour

[Zach Heusser]

Is it a Developemental tour or second chance tour?

I am sure many of you also had students or friends in this weeks Nationwide Monday qualifier here the bay area. Many of these guys are young players trying to break out and find a place to play.
I found it interseting that there were 150 players at each site battleing for 7 spots at each course. 300 for 14 that isn't very good odds for these guys.
It got me thinking and I went and checked the field for this week and noticed that a large portion of the field is taken up by guys who get in off past champion staus meaning they one a PGA tour event or are high up on the career cut list.
In this weeks filed are
Guy Boros, Mark Brooks, Tom Byrum, Keith Clearwater, Robert Damron, Jay Delsing, Trevor Dodds, Scott Dunlap, Robin Freeman, Mike Heinen, Gabriel Hjertstedt, Neal Lancaster, Ian Leggatt, Len Mattiace, Jim Mcgovern, Steve Pate, Dennis Paulson, Dicky Pride, Tom Scherrer, Paul Stankowski, Grant Waite, Garrett Willid, Willie Wood amoung others.
Many of these guys have not played well in years but they continue to get starts on this tour taking potetntial spots from young guys trying to catch a break. I am guessing that the tours standpoint is that these guys are good for the events to help promote and advertise that there are Major Champions and Ryder Cup players in the field.
I guess my take is I thought this tour was meant to help young players along not to be a second chance tour or a gravy train.
By the way I mean no disrespect to any of these players or what they have accomplished.
What do you guys think?
Zach

[Jaylasvegas]

Its a stepping stone for some and a holding tank for others, most of them have never worked a real job in there life so its the only option for them

one thing for sure is none of them want to be there

[juanvilla]

Its a stepping stone for some and a holding tank for others, most of them have never worked a real job in there life so its the only option for them

one thing for sure is none of them want to be there

 

What is a real job?

[StugyGolf]

Its a stepping stone for some and a holding tank for others, most of them have never worked a real job in there life so its the only option for them

one thing for sure is none of them want to be there

 

What is a real job?

 

 

 

Gravedigger? McDonalds? Town Drunk?

[Tim Delgado]

Its a stepping stone for some and a holding tank for others, most of them have never worked a real job in there life so its the only option for them

one thing for sure is none of them want to be there

 

What is a real job?

 

 

 

Gravedigger? McDonalds? Town Drunk?

 

 

 

Equipment junkie! :tongue:

 

I agree with the original poster's point to an extent. It would be like sending Sammy Sosa to a minor league club (and taking a spot from a DEVELOPING youngster) because he cannot get a job in the big leagues. Past performance on the big tour SHOULD get you status on THAT tour, but not on the development tour IMO.

 

I do NOT think that these guys should be getting automatic exemptions, but I do think they, and anyone else, should be allowed to try and qualify.

 

Tim

[martinez]

I don't mind the current system that much....and I'm one on the outside looking in.

 

I would like to see a slight reduction in the number of exemptions on both tours......the argument for the top 125 being exempt so the fans knew all the players is pointless in the current day. The fans as a whole are really more interested in getting new 'stories' than they are in knowing everyone that makes the cut.

 

Surprising the tour doesn't realize this.....with such a good secondary tour and pathways back to the PGA tour the number of exemptions could easily be reduced to about 80-90 and allow more tour school/ nationwide grads to get a go at the big show for a year.

[tigerphan]

I don't mind the current system that much....and I'm one on the outside looking in.

 

I would like to see a slight reduction in the number of exemptions on both tours......the argument for the top 125 being exempt so the fans knew all the players is pointless in the current day. The fans as a whole are really more interested in getting new 'stories' than they are in knowing everyone that makes the cut.

 

Surprising the tour doesn't realize this.....with such a good secondary tour and pathways back to the PGA tour the number of exemptions could easily be reduced to about 80-90 and allow more tour school/ nationwide grads to get a go at the big show for a year.

 

 

I like that idea of droping the expemt money list of the year, more possibly down to 100, 25 spots is still alot more.

[ragin cajun]

I was a walking scorer for the Louisiana Chitimaca Open this past week, and followed Bubba Dickerson (winner), Toms Schere, Drew Laning, Kyle Thompson, Jim Herman, and a few others (just remember these guys because they talked with me quite a bit during their respective rounds). And the field seems to be split pretty evenly between guys that feel it is a blessing and a curse. However after seeing what these guys can do (some serious Phil or Tiger type heroic escapes), I think the tour needs to increase purse sizes and use this as an opportunity to show the game to the younger generation, especially since these guys are much more accessible than a player on the PGA tour.

[ragin cajun]

I would like to see a slight reduction in the number of exemptions on both tours......the argument for the top 125 being exempt so the fans knew all the players is pointless in the current day. The fans as a whole are really more interested in getting new 'stories' than they are in knowing everyone that makes the cut.

 

I agree as well. It would make the Nationwide tour a better option.

[luxman]

I was a walking scorer for the Louisiana Chitimaca Open this past week, and followed Bubba Dickerson (winner), Toms Schere, Drew Laning, Kyle Thompson, Jim Herman, and a few others (just remember these guys because they talked with me quite a bit during their respective rounds). And the field seems to be split pretty evenly between guys that feel it is a blessing and a curse. However after seeing what these guys can do (some serious Phil or Tiger type heroic escapes), I think the tour needs to increase purse sizes and use this as an opportunity to show the game to the younger generation, especially since these guys are much more accessible than a player on the PGA tour.

 

That sounds great, but, especially in this economy, how do you propose that the Tour does that?

 

In an individual sport like golf, I don't necessarily think the concept of a "developmental" league applies like it does in a team sport like hockey or baseball and that the Nationwide Tour is simply a "minor league" tour.

[drgolfaholic]

Young or old, it's Darwinism in golf. I personally root for the young guys but surely understand the feeling of the vets out there. On a related note, I know one of the guys trying to get in on Monday Qualifier at The Bridges this week but missed by a few strokes. Nicest kid with prettiest swing I see in real life, not counting the top tier pros. He'll make it out there soon. That's the ones I root for.

[kal32473]

I am sure many of you also had students or friends in this weeks Nationwide Monday qualifier here the bay area. Many of these guys are young players trying to break out and find a place to play.

I found it interseting that there were 150 players at each site battleing for 7 spots at each course. 300 for 14 that isn't very good odds for these guys.

It got me thinking and I went and checked the field for this week and noticed that a large portion of the field is taken up by guys who get in off past champion staus meaning they one a PGA tour event or are high up on the career cut list.

In this weeks filed are

Guy Boros, Mark Brooks, Tom Byrum, Keith Clearwater, Robert Damron, Jay Delsing, Trevor Dodds, Scott Dunlap, Robin Freeman, Mike Heinen, Gabriel Hjertstedt, Neal Lancaster, Ian Leggatt, Len Mattiace, Jim Mcgovern, Steve Pate, Dennis Paulson, Dicky Pride, Tom Scherrer, Paul Stankowski, Grant Waite, Garrett Willid, Willie Wood amoung others.

Many of these guys have not played well in years but they continue to get starts on this tour taking potetntial spots from young guys trying to catch a break. I am guessing that the tours standpoint is that these guys are good for the events to help promote and advertise that there are Major Champions and Ryder Cup players in the field.

I guess my take is I thought this tour was meant to help young players along not to be a second chance tour or a gravy train.

By the way I mean no disrespect to any of these players or what they have accomplished.

What do you guys think?

Zach

 

I think that if the young guys you speak of are that good, they'd already have a spot to begin with. I agree with you in that some of these veterans seem to be trying to hang on, but they have just as much right to be there as a young guy trying to make it. I mean, do you feel the same way about a veteran, former major league baseball player who signs a minor league deal at the end of career hoping to catch on in the majors one last time? That's pretty much what's going when some of these former PGA Tour players play on the Nationwide.

[ragin cajun]

That sounds great, but, especially in this economy, how do you propose that the Tour does that?

 

 

I'm not saying it would happen over night, but actually promoting some events could be a start to getting more tickets an income from the public. I'm not sure about every tour stop but the Chitimaca was definantly under promoted. If you were not a sponsor or didn't play golf, you would have never known about it. Even the Golf Channel wasn't there as they are for at least half of the events, and the Chitimaca has been around since 1992.

[WMcDonald4]

I caddied on the nationwide tour for most of last year for one of the rising young players. A lot of people don't understand that a lot of the players mentioned in the first post are actually exempt. Mark Brooks is a Major Champion...you decide if that is qualification enough or not? Robert Damron won a nationwide tour event last year (Athens I believe) and is exempt for this year and next year. Scott Dunlap won last years season opener in Panama and is exempt through 2011. Tom Scherrer won on the nationwide tour in 2007 and got his card finishing 20th on the money list. He is exempt through the end of 2009 from his 2007 win. Dicky Pride has at least conditional status from his finish on last years money list. Garrett Willis and Willie Wood are fully exempt from their finishes at Q-school in 2008. As for the rest of the guys, most of them are using some type of Minor or Major medical exemptions. I have spent a lot of time with Lennie Mattiace in the past few years and he has really overcome a lot. After losing in a playoff in the 2003 Masters to Mike Weir he blew out both knees in a skiing accident. The doctor's were not even sure if he would play again yet alone play on the tour. I hope this information helps explain some of the reasons why these guys are playing in these events.

 

As for the idea that these guys don't have "Real Jobs"...well, lets just say that anyone who says this is just not very well informed. The lives these guys lead are very grueling and trying. The majority of people don't realize what the players go through on a daily basis. They put in way more than time than a "40 hour work week."

 

As for the talent on that tour...The majority of the players that I have seen on that tour could definately compete on the PGA Tour. I am not saying they could be top 10 in the world, but they can definately compete. I hate to even call the Nationwide tour a developemental tour. I believe this does the Tour and great injustice!

[OldSkoolTexan]

It should be like baseball.  The old "vets" head over and play in Japan or the Asian Tour.  Either that or they can get a club pro gig and wait for 50 to come around.

 

Leave the Nationwide for new talent gearing up for the big dance.  It's difficult to get a break when your only option is a Mon-Qual with only 7 spots.

[ragin cajun]

As for the talent on that tour...The majority of the players that I have seen on that tour could definately compete on the PGA Tour. I am not saying they could be top 10 in the world, but they can definately compete. I hate to even call the Nationwide tour a developemental tour. I believe this does the Tour and great injustice!

 

I completely agree. By the way who do/did you caddie for.

[luxman]

That sounds great, but, especially in this economy, how do you propose that the Tour does that?

 

 

I'm not saying it would happen over night, but actually promoting some events could be a start to getting more tickets an income from the public. I'm not sure about every tour stop but the Chitimaca was definantly under promoted. If you were not a sponsor or didn't play golf, you would have never known about it. Even the Golf Channel wasn't there as they are for at least half of the events, and the Chitimaca has been around since 1992.

 

I hear what you are saying, especially as an avid fan of both minor league baseball and hockey.

 

The problem is that regardless of how much the Nationwide Tour is promoted, the general public isn't going to come out in droves to see 2nd tier players. The same can be said for minor league hockey and baseball except that in those cases the locals come out to root for their hometown team while a golf tournament happens just once a year.

[ragin cajun]

That sounds great, but, especially in this economy, how do you propose that the Tour does that?

 

 

I'm not saying it would happen over night, but actually promoting some events could be a start to getting more tickets an income from the public. I'm not sure about every tour stop but the Chitimaca was definantly under promoted. If you were not a sponsor or didn't play golf, you would have never known about it. Even the Golf Channel wasn't there as they are for at least half of the events, and the Chitimaca has been around since 1992.

 

I hear what you are saying, especially as an avid fan of both minor league baseball and hockey.

 

The problem is that regardless of how much the Nationwide Tour is promoted, the general public isn't going to come out in droves to see 2nd tier players. The same can be said for minor league hockey and baseball except that in those cases the locals come out to root for their hometown team while a golf tournament happens just once a year.

 

I know, and I agree with you. I just get the impression that the Nationwide tour committee plays the pity game when it comes to revenue, but doesn't do much to actually help the matter. Thus negatively effecting players and fans.

[LHgolfer]

Cool story for you, I was at the practice rounds on Tuesday for the Shell Houston open. I hung out on the 4th tee box, a group came thru and they were discussing the nationwide tour.

 

2 were graduates, one was a big time star, the 2 graduates were telling the well known star that it is a bomber's fest and nothing like the PGA Tour. One of the graduates said he would hit driver on every hole and either aim left or right depending on which side the pin was, due to no rough. His caddie said that guys wear out their 8-lw and never use anything much longer. Once you get to the PGA Tour, you hit 2i, 3i, 4i, and hybrids. Many guys have never hit those clubs into greens.

 

The other graduate said it is the only tour in the world where you are able to play down other fairways more often than your own.

 

Pretty cool conversation between 3 well known golfers.

[Jaylasvegas]

I caddied on the nationwide tour for most of last year for one of the rising young players. A lot of people don't understand that a lot of the players mentioned in the first post are actually exempt. Mark Brooks is a Major Champion...you decide if that is qualification enough or not? Robert Damron won a nationwide tour event last year (Athens I believe) and is exempt for this year and next year. Scott Dunlap won last years season opener in Panama and is exempt through 2011. Tom Scherrer won on the nationwide tour in 2007 and got his card finishing 20th on the money list. He is exempt through the end of 2009 from his 2007 win. Dicky Pride has at least conditional status from his finish on last years money list. Garrett Willis and Willie Wood are fully exempt from their finishes at Q-school in 2008. As for the rest of the guys, most of them are using some type of Minor or Major medical exemptions. I have spent a lot of time with Lennie Mattiace in the past few years and he has really overcome a lot. After losing in a playoff in the 2003 Masters to Mike Weir he blew out both knees in a skiing accident. The doctor's were not even sure if he would play again yet alone play on the tour. I hope this information helps explain some of the reasons why these guys are playing in these events.

 

As for the idea that these guys don't have "Real Jobs"...well, lets just say that anyone who says this is just not very well informed. The lives these guys lead are very grueling and trying. The majority of people don't realize what the players go through on a daily basis. They put in way more than time than a "40 hour work week."

 

As for the talent on that tour...The majority of the players that I have seen on that tour could definately compete on the PGA Tour. I am not saying they could be top 10 in the world, but they can definately compete. I hate to even call the Nationwide tour a developemental tour. I believe this does the Tour and great injustice!

If you are referring to my comment about them not having real jobs, im pretty aware of what they do out there, I looped on that tour several seasons when my guy would lose his card on the Pga tour, my comment was based on the fact that besides golf, most of these guys would be hard pressed to find a job. Thus the NW tour keeps them from getting a job in the work force, only so many ex players can sell insurance these days

[luxman]

Cool story for you, I was at the practice rounds on Tuesday for the Shell Houston open. I hung out on the 4th tee box, a group came thru and they were discussing the nationwide tour.

 

2 were graduates, one was a big time star, the 2 graduates were telling the well known star that it is a bomber's fest and nothing like the PGA Tour. One of the graduates said he would hit driver on every hole and either aim left or right depending on which side the pin was, due to no rough. His caddie said that guys wear out their 8-lw and never use anything much longer. Once you get to the PGA Tour, you hit 2i, 3i, 4i, and hybrids. Many guys have never hit those clubs into greens.

 

The other graduate said it is the only tour in the world where you are able to play down other fairways more often than your own.

 

Pretty cool conversation between 3 well known golfers.

 

Care to say who?