Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='foregasim' post='1836255' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:08 AM']There is no performance benefit. It is just a cool factor, like stamps, finishes, etc. You do not even see the twists when addressing the ball.[/quote]

And to each their own. If you want to pay thousands to have a putter with a twisted neck, so be it. I think its dumb, but some would kill to have it.

Foregasim... You only buy items for the function??? Is look/"cool factor" a part of the equation for you?

[stage1350]

[quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836367' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:07 AM'][quote name='foregasim' post='1836255' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:08 AM']There is no performance benefit. It is just a cool factor, like stamps, finishes, etc. You do not even see the twists when addressing the ball.[/quote]

And to each their own. If you want to pay thousands to have a putter with a twisted neck, so be it. I think its dumb, but some would kill to have it.

Foregasim... You only buy items for the function??? Is look/"cool factor" a part of the equation for you?
[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with the "look/cool" factor if you are willing to admit that it's pure vanty. Just be honest about it. Don't try to sell it as better because performance-wise, it's not.

And you're right. It's truly a sad statement that some WOULD kill to have it. It's a putter, nothing more.

[psd]

[quote name='stage1350' post='1836417' date='Jul 22 2009, 12:29 PM'][quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836367' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:07 AM'][quote name='foregasim' post='1836255' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:08 AM']There is no performance benefit. It is just a cool factor, like stamps, finishes, etc. You do not even see the twists when addressing the ball.[/quote]

And to each their own. If you want to pay thousands to have a putter with a twisted neck, so be it. I think its dumb, but some would kill to have it.

Foregasim... You only buy items for the function??? Is look/"cool factor" a part of the equation for you?
[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with the "look/cool" factor if you are willing to admit that it's pure vanty. Just be honest about it. Don't try to sell it as better because performance-wise, it's not.

And you're right. It's truly a sad statement that some WOULD kill to have it. It's a putter, nothing more.
[/quote]

Where is anyone saying that a twisty neck has a performance benefit? Too many conspiracy theorists jumping in on every little detail. Same with welds. Why are certain necks welded instead of one-piece? Does it change the feel or does it differentiate the putter, like a twisty neck, looks-wise?

This group really leaves no stone unturned.

[Six Pints]

[quote name='psd' post='1836467' date='Jul 22 2009, 12:51 PM']Where is anyone saying that a twisty neck has a performance benefit?[/quote]


That might have been my fault as I may have leapt to the wrong conclusion based on marketing and comments from participants in this thread. It is a fact that Scotty Cameron putters are performance instruments used by the best professionals and that we should be willing to pay a premium for them for the confidence they instil. It seems to me (the unwashed and obviously uneducated) that paying $15,000 for the aforementioned twisty putter that there would certainly be increases in both performance and confidence (hey... isn't that what Viagra is for?). I was merely trying to quantify the increase.

Just for the record, I'm not really going to try and buy a $15,000 twisted neck putter. Heck, I can't even afford a high price escort...

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='stage1350' post='1836417' date='Jul 22 2009, 12:29 PM'][quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836367' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:07 AM'][quote name='foregasim' post='1836255' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:08 AM']There is no performance benefit. It is just a cool factor, like stamps, finishes, etc. You do not even see the twists when addressing the ball.[/quote]

And to each their own. If you want to pay thousands to have a putter with a twisted neck, so be it. I think its dumb, but some would kill to have it.

Foregasim... You only buy items for the function??? Is look/"cool factor" a part of the equation for you?
[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with the "look/cool" factor if you are willing to admit that it's pure vanty. Just be honest about it. Don't try to sell it as better because performance-wise, it's not.

And you're right. It's truly a sad statement that some WOULD kill to have it. It's a putter, nothing more.
[/quote]


I have NO problem admitting that vanity plays a part in my purchase decisions. Just like some of these shafts we see now with "rain" graphics, skulls and crossbones, etc etc. But again, the performance has to be there. A polished turd is still a turd.

But, reading back about the "premium for confidence " comment.... Isn't that what the vanity portion does for us? If it looks great, it makes us feel good about owning it, which boosts your confidence in the item.

I'm not a Scotty fanboy. But I love the look and feel of my OTR Scotty. Also found the Ping Redwood to be right up there.

Personally I have my own limits when it comes to this. Solid gold cellphones and $40k putters is a bit ridiculous. I think you get to a point where it just becomes a "measuring contest" like you discussed in another thread.

[jick]

[quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836557' date='Jul 23 2009, 01:30 AM']But, reading back about the "premium for confidence " comment.... Isn't that what the vanity portion does for us? If it looks great, it makes us feel good about owning it, which boosts your confidence in the item.[/quote]

Cameron never discussed vanity. As a matter of fact he said: [b]"It's human nature to have greater faith in something you've paid a premium for."[/b]

That statement has nothing to do with looks, quality or performance. It is purely about price.

Cameron is catering to "human nature." If you sell it at a higher price, the user will have greater faith which equates to more confidence. That seems to be his train of thought.

We should always try to put ourselves in the same thought process as Cameron to better appreciate where he is coming from.

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='jick' post='1836575' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:41 PM'][quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836557' date='Jul 23 2009, 01:30 AM']But, reading back about the "premium for confidence " comment.... Isn't that what the vanity portion does for us? If it looks great, it makes us feel good about owning it, which boosts your confidence in the item.[/quote]

Cameron never discussed vanity. As a matter of fact he said: [b]"It's human nature to have greater faith in something you've paid a premium for."[/b]

That statement has nothing to do with looks, quality or performance. It is purely about price.

Cameron is catering to "human nature." If you sell it at a higher price, the user will have greater faith which equates to more confidence. That seems to be his train of thought.[/quote]

I'll agree that "look" isn't the only thing that plays into vanity. But at the end of the day, ONE of the reasons you pay a premium for a Scotty Cameron putter is the name. That's vanity. And that's fine.

I'm a brand name whore. I'll admit it. Behind performance and look, brand name is right there. I think may golfers feel that way.

[quote]We should always try to put ourselves in the same thought process as Cameron to better appreciate where he is coming from.[/quote]

I don't know his thought process so that would be pretty hard to do. All I can say is that Scotty Cameron has created a very desirable brand name in the golf community. Whether its putters, pivot tools, headcovers, bags, etc. The brand name has value to a lot of people, and a lot of people will pay a premium for that brand name. Some feel the exact opposite and would never buy a SC product. The same can be said for many consumer products (cars, electronics, etc).

[Will Par]

[quote name='jick' post='1835689' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:06 AM']To all those who love to bust Cameron for not having any original designs, think again.

From his 2006 Interview with Golf Digest (again I use Cameron's own words as it is more accurate than mere speculation or conjecture):

[i]
"What's the next breakthrough in putters and what we know about putting itself? I'm on the verge of something that will show the player exactly what should happen during the ideal putting stroke, along with clear direction on whether you're achieving it. Is it a putter? A training aid? An analyzing device? I won't elaborate, except to say that[b] it will alter the future of putting[/b] and markedly improve the ability of golfers as a whole."[/i]

Can the other puttermakers claim to alter the future of putting itself?

By the way, now which is three years after that interview, did Cameron already breakthrough"? Or he still "on the verge"? Nevertheless, I am sure we are all waiting with extreme anticipation for a product that will alter the future of putting.[/quote]

That is an interesting comment from Cameron. I seriously doubt that he or anyone else will ever "alter the future of putting." Physics and gravity have ultimate control over the action of a golf ball rolling across a putting green. The only thing that will change that is improvement in agronomy to make greens smoother. And then even if someone should ever find something that helps all golfers make more putts, it is very likely that the USGA and R&A will step in and outlaw that game-altering technique. After the moment of impact--with GSS, SSS, carbon steel, or whatever--we are all at the mercy of imperfections in the putting surface. And no putter design will ever change that.

[hodges]

[quote name='varsityhacker' post='1833399' date='Jul 21 2009, 08:53 AM']I think his website, video's etc. are there for one reason Marketing.. I think that you are silly to think that SC does it out of the kindness of his heart. Any way Titleist or SC does not support a collectors forum like TCC just ask Vog And there is a dedicated forum for other putter makers like Mills, BB, Morgan it's called PutterTalk and if you go over there a read the posts they manage to talk about different putter makers even SC and even have different views etc. and they are not censored by cowboy mods or posts being deleted and I have never heard of anyone being banned for asking questions. Why other sites can't do the same? Maybe they have something to hide or protect.[/quote]

PT LOL
The cowboys there banned me after I tried to defend the rules of the site against personal attacks. It was a Mod that was making the personal attacks. I guess the rules only apply to the members

[geogolf]

[quote name='varsityhacker' post='1833399' date='Jul 21 2009, 08:53 AM']Titleist or SC does not support a collectors forum like TCC[/quote]

lol and my TCC ban reasoning included "sublimely make jabs at Titleist, Vokey and Scotty". :-)

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='CallawayOnly' post='1836195' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:46 AM'][quote name='Six Pints' post='1835950' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:30 AM']Here is a link to the SC International Collectors Convention where there is an interesting comment at about 3:38...
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4[/url]
For those of you who don't want to listen..... Scotty says "I'm surprised THEY didn't break the neck on how tight those twists are on the neck"
It appears to me that even if you spend $15k on a handmade putter there is no guarantee that Scotty even touched the putter (unless you count waving the finished product around to the adoring fans).
On the plus side... imagine how much confidence I will have in the putter because I spent so much! By the way, how does the twisted neck enhance performance? I mean I don't really care as I'll be knocking them in from everywhere because it was expensive... but the guys in my foursome might ask and I want to baffle them with technical jargon.[/quote]
This topic was [b]beat to death[/b] in another thread some time ago. I do however find it really funny when the Cameron's boys keep pointing out that he is just way too busy to make putters while running this multi million dollar business, but yet they point out over and over that he is saying [b]I[/b] when talking about the twisty neck putter in the video.
So is he or is he not too busy to make putter's? My guess is he has not made anything outside of tons of money in serveral years. After all he is a busy man.
[/quote]


I am not sure I would call myself one of "[i]Cameron's boys[/i]" but I heard the word "[b]I[/b]" in the video clip. I have to be honest and say that. I would bet anything he said "[b]I[/b]".

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='hodges' post='1837550' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:18 PM'][quote name='varsityhacker' post='1833399' date='Jul 21 2009, 08:53 AM']I think his website, video's etc. are there for one reason Marketing.. I think that you are silly to think that SC does it out of the kindness of his heart. Any way Titleist or SC does not support a collectors forum like TCC just ask Vog And there is a dedicated forum for other putter makers like Mills, BB, Morgan it's called PutterTalk and if you go over there a read the posts they manage to talk about different putter makers even SC and even have different views etc. and they are not censored by cowboy mods or posts being deleted and I have never heard of anyone being banned for asking questions. Why other sites can't do the same? Maybe they have something to hide or protect.[/quote]

PT LOL
The cowboys there banned me after I tried to defend the rules of the site against personal attacks. It was a Mod that was making the personal attacks. I guess the rules only apply to the members
[/quote]

And my TCC ban had to do with a comment I made about that I would like to see the "[b]Inspired by TP Mills[/b]" putter. No warning, no PM, no call from Vog. Just a moderator that had no consideration of the 1500+ posts I made (almost 100% supportive of the site and product) who banned me.

That said, I made very little contributions while geogolf made a HUGE contribution and he was banned. His ban was absolutely pathetic and the Administrator and Moderators should be ashamed.

As for you Greg, I would be in support of your PT membership being reinstated but I am not privy to the details of what happened and why. Maybe an email to the Moderators at PT would help, if that is what you want.

[xxio]

[quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836068' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:43 PM']As for the “premium for confidence,” I will buy into that to an extent. I got $500 in Golfsmith gift certs as a little contest bonus at work. I knew I wanted to get a GOOD OTR putter. With all the hype around Scotty Cameron putters, it’s hard not to get a little juiced up when you 1st put one in your hands. I personally think $300 for a putter is f’n crazy. I would never spend that kind of money on a putter, but this was my opportunity to do so without taxing the normal cash flow that pays the bills.

Is it anything amazing and out of this world about it? No. Have I shot my best scores of my life? Yes. Am I a better putter after getting a SC? I guess so, the scores don’t lie.

There are some amazing OTR putters in that $250-500 range. Ping Redwood for example. But I do have to say that the hype/marketing machine that is Scotty Cameron got me. But I will also so I am FAR from disappointed with my purchase. It’s a great putter that works for me. Results don’t lie.

As for these $2k+ putters…. I guess to each their own. I can sit at a Hold’em Table in AC with $100 and get a rush when I double up. Some people need to sit down with $5k to even be interested. Really, to each their own.[/quote]


Interesting.

Can you tell us what putter you were scoring bad with before? How many putts per round average? What was your tendency- push/pull/wrong speed, etc?

What were the specs of your previous putter- length/headweight/loft/lie/etc?

What are the specs of your Scotty?

I used to be a bad putter with a bad stroke. Averaging 35-37 putts a round. I still have that "bad stroke". I just have putters that fit it better now and my misses are not that bad. I'm averaging about 30 putts a round now.

Even the putter I was putting bad with before has been bent to my specs and I now have confidence in it.

Whether the confidence is worth $300 or $40,000 I honestly don't know. I guess only Cameron is qualified to put a price on confidence.

[xxio]

As to the future of putting I coursed thru the Cameron site for a good amount of time.

I think it is safe to say the "thing" that will alter the future of putting is still in the design stages. Maybe the photocopying machine is broken

[ball game]

could this be the next big thing?

A new alignment type grip?

[attachment=438741:scotty_secret.jpg]

[jick]

Perhaps Cameron could have been referring to the Detour or his ball tool when he mentioned altering the future of putting since this interview was in 2006? I don't want to believe he was referring to the Detour though because that was a massive flop. Cameron's foresight could not have been that bad.

[xxio]

[quote name='jick' post='1837811' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:13 AM']Perhaps Cameron could have been referring to the Detour or his ball tool when he mentioned altering the future of putting since this interview was in 2006? I don't want to believe he was referring to the Detour though because that was a massive flop. Cameron's foresight could not have been that bad.[/quote]


The ball tool/marker you mean? I think is undergoing litigation for infringement so I doubt that could have been it.

Detour. You said it not me.....FLOP or maybe Cameron is a visionary who will only be appreciated once he is gone.....like Galileo or Michaelangelo. Maybe in 10 years all 4 majors will be won using a Detour.

His foresight is not that bad. He already prices his putters as if in the future, when carbon steel and stainless steel become scarce.

[DB MACHINE]

[quote name='Will Par' post='1836935' date='Jul 22 2009, 02:50 PM'][quote name='jick' post='1835689' date='Jul 22 2009, 01:06 AM']To all those who love to bust Cameron for not having any original designs, think again.

From his 2006 Interview with Golf Digest (again I use Cameron's own words as it is more accurate than mere speculation or conjecture):

[i]
"What's the next breakthrough in putters and what we know about putting itself? I'm on the verge of something that will show the player exactly what should happen during the ideal putting stroke, along with clear direction on whether you're achieving it. Is it a putter? A training aid? An analyzing device? I won't elaborate, except to say that[b] it will alter the future of putting[/b] and markedly improve the ability of golfers as a whole."[/i]

Can the other puttermakers claim to alter the future of putting itself?

By the way, now which is three years after that interview, did Cameron already breakthrough"? Or he still "on the verge"? Nevertheless, I am sure we are all waiting with extreme anticipation for a product that will alter the future of putting.[/quote]

That is an interesting comment from Cameron. I seriously doubt that he or anyone else will ever "alter the future of putting." Physics and gravity have ultimate control over the action of a golf ball rolling across a putting green. The only thing that will change that is improvement in agronomy to make greens smoother. And then even if someone should ever find something that helps all golfers make more putts, it is very likely that the USGA and R&A will step in and outlaw that game-altering technique. After the moment of impact--with GSS, SSS, carbon steel, or whatever--we are all at the mercy of imperfections in the putting surface. And no putter design will ever change that.
[/quote]


I am pretty sure SC was referring to the Detour putter. Read his comments again (2006) and consider the "breakthrough" of the curved line on the Detour (and Newport Detour). If it was, I'm not so sure that one performed as advertised ("alter the future of putting and markedly improve the ability of golfers as a whole").


[quote name='xxio' post='1837749' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:45 PM']As to the future of putting I coursed thru the Cameron site for a good amount of time.

I think it is safe to say the "thing" that will alter the future of putting is still in the design stages. Maybe the photocopying machine is broken [/quote]


LOL!

Just wait until you see my new patent (issues in a matter of days now.....). You'll get a whole new perspective on that last comment.

-DB

[texas-ex]

[quote name='geogolf' post='1837690' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:18 PM'][quote name='varsityhacker' post='1833399' date='Jul 21 2009, 08:53 AM']Titleist or SC does not support a collectors forum like TCC[/quote]

lol and my TCC ban reasoning included "sublimely make jabs at Titleist, Vokey and Scotty". :-)


[/quote]


[quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1837734' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:38 PM'][quote name='hodges' post='1837550' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:18 PM'][quote name='varsityhacker' post='1833399' date='Jul 21 2009, 08:53 AM']I think his website, video's etc. are there for one reason Marketing.. I think that you are silly to think that SC does it out of the kindness of his heart. Any way Titleist or SC does not support a collectors forum like TCC just ask Vog And there is a dedicated forum for other putter makers like Mills, BB, Morgan it's called PutterTalk and if you go over there a read the posts they manage to talk about different putter makers even SC and even have different views etc. and they are not censored by cowboy mods or posts being deleted and I have never heard of anyone being banned for asking questions. Why other sites can't do the same? Maybe they have something to hide or protect.[/quote]

PT LOL
The cowboys there banned me after I tried to defend the rules of the site against personal attacks. It was a Mod that was making the personal attacks. I guess the rules only apply to the members
[/quote]

And my TCC ban had to do with a comment I made about that I would like to see the "[b]Inspired by TP Mills[/b]" putter. No warning, no PM, no call from Vog. Just a moderator that had no consideration of the 1500+ posts I made (almost 100% supportive of the site and product) who banned me.

That said, I made very little contributions while geogolf made a HUGE contribution and he was banned. His ban was absolutely pathetic and the Administrator and Moderators should be ashamed.

As for you Greg, I would be in support of your PT membership being reinstated but I am not privy to the details of what happened and why. Maybe an email to the Moderators at PT would help, if that is what you want.
[/quote]

I was banned for calling Adam Scott gay.

[biscuity]

[quote name='xxio' post='1837743' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:42 PM']I guess only Cameron is qualified to put a price on confidence.[/quote]

It's not just Cameron. There are a bunch of companies selling $300 putters that are right in line with what most Cameron putters costs.

Everyone here knows that you would get beat by Tiger in a putting contest even if he was using a $15 Walmart putter. So why would anyone pay $2,500 for a Byron Damascus? Fashion, status, [b]confidence[/b].

When the pressure is on in tournament play it gives me confidence to have a nice new pair of shoes, my favorite tour player outfit, a nice set of high-end clubs and a great putter.

Each person determines what price point makes him confident that he has the equipment to play his best. For some people that means stepping up to a $69 Cleveland putter, others it means a $300 OTR putter, and for some people it means a rare and expensive putter. The guy rocking the $69 putter is probably going to scoff at the guy using a $2500 Byron, and vice-versa. But each of them are more confident than if they were using a putter that they perceived as cheap.

[xxio]

[quote name='biscuity' post='1837988' date='Jul 23 2009, 11:31 AM'][quote name='xxio' post='1837743' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:42 PM']I guess only Cameron is qualified to put a price on confidence.[/quote]

It's not just Cameron. There are a bunch of companies selling $300 putters that are right in line with what most Cameron putters costs.

Everyone here knows that you would get beat by Tiger in a putting contest even if he was using a $15 Walmart putter. So why would anyone pay $2,500 for a Byron Damascus? Fashion, status, [b]confidence[/b].

When the pressure is on in tournament play it gives me confidence to have a nice new pair of shoes, my favorite tour player outfit, a nice set of high-end clubs and a great putter.

Each person determines what price point makes him confident that he has the equipment to play his best. For some people that means stepping up to a $69 Cleveland putter, others it means a $300 OTR putter, and for some people it means a rare and expensive putter. The guy rocking the $69 putter is probably going to scoff at the guy using a $2500 Byron, and vice-versa. But each of them are more confident than if they were using a putter that they perceived as cheap.
[/quote]


It would be great if you followed the train of thought rather than just jumping in.

please refer to post 1077

"I don't know, I can't trust anything on Scotty's site now with all the mistakes and inconsistencies. Those comments could have been written by his careless webmaster or one of the staff for all we know.

I even doubt some of the statements attributed to Scotty Cameron in Jick's posts. I mean who would want to say "It's human nature to have greater faith in something you've paid a premium for".

It's like saying you can either pay $300 for an OTR amount of confidence or $3,000 for a bit more of confidence. I would hope that the extra $2,700 is more than just confidence but better craftsmanship and better materials, recycled forks and knives anyone smile.gif"

We are not talking about the prices for the putter, but for "the premium paid for". In Cameron's case he admits the premium is for confidence.

AFAIK no other putter maker has said the statement that basically says "what your paying for is confidence". The other puttermakers would rather sell their premium putters based on design, manufacturing process, raw materials, craftmanship, quality control (accurate headweights )etc but of course since Cameron is involved maybe in one or hopefully two of these processes only he has to focus on confidence and marketing, that is what he is good at.


Actually not everyone would pay $2,500 for a putter just for "fashion, status, confidence". I would pay for a high end putter because of build quality (quality control, tolerances, precision manufacturing) and design (if it ain't a sound design, you ain't going to make putts), and that will result in confidence when putting. The fact that it will be made by Cameron, Mills, Bettinardi, or Billings is a factor but not the main one.

In seems what is included and the order in which you have written them show what is important to you in a putter. [b]FASHION, STATUS, and confidence.[/b] I rest my case

[xxio]

[quote name='DB MACHINE' post='1837839' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:25 AM'][quote name='xxio' post='1837749' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:45 PM']As to the future of putting I coursed thru the Cameron site for a good amount of time.

I think it is safe to say the "thing" that will alter the future of putting is still in the design stages. Maybe the photocopying machine is broken [/quote]


LOL!

Just wait until you see my new patent (issues in a matter of days now.....). You'll get a whole new perspective on that last comment.

-DB
[/quote]


Dave,

Maybe you shouldn't have mentioned it until the patent was issued. Some people here may no longer buy your "anser copy" they'll just wait for someone to copy the copy.

Oops did I just throw you under the bus again? Post 814 page 21 to refresh your memory. Just to ask did you ever get an apology for that remark. There was none in this thread. I mentioned that and it was ignored. I was hoping he PM'd you one.

Waiting for pics of whatever was patented.

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1835922' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:02 AM'][quote name='biscuity' post='1835795' date='Jul 22 2009, 12:46 AM'][quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1834100' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:04 AM'][quote name='Roland ' post='1833951' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:03 AM']This thread has lost me. I think people take things far too seriously lol. If I like a putter, I don't care what/where/who/how its made by aslong as it holes putts [/quote]

This thread is really not about a putter called the Mini. This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received.

At least that is what this thread means to me.
[/quote]


And about the ethics and integrity of the companies you previously used as suppliers.
[/quote]

This is a perfect case of deflecting a pertinent issue by throwing other companies into the mix. Well, I am sure we are not discussing other companies in this thread. I know of one company (rather one or two people within that company) that lacked ethics and integrity. The case went to court and verdict rendered. If we want to talk about other companies then name them and recite the specific action that lacks integrity and ethics. Otherwise this thread pertains to the Mini and the practices that were employed to vault the value of this putter.
[/quote]

RobotDoctor, did you receive a response from biscuity on this? We both called him out on his insinuations here and I've not seen his response. Perhaps I missed it?

[varsityhacker]

[quote name='jick' post='1837811' date='Jul 22 2009, 10:13 PM']Perhaps Cameron could have been referring to the Detour or his ball tool when he mentioned altering the future of putting since this interview was in 2006? I don't want to believe he was referring to the Detour though because that was a massive flop. Cameron's foresight could not have been that bad.[/quote]

Yes I think it can only because his ego is so big. History has shown us the greatest flops usually come from men with big ego's. Besides who in the SC camp would have had the guts to say hey boss that thing sucks, maybe you shouldn't make that.

[varsityhacker]

[quote name='texas-ex' post='1837905' date='Jul 22 2009, 10:56 PM'][quote name='geogolf' post='1837690' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:18 PM'][quote name='varsityhacker' post='1833399' date='Jul 21 2009, 08:53 AM']Titleist or SC does not support a collectors forum like TCC[/quote]

lol and my TCC ban reasoning included "sublimely make jabs at Titleist, Vokey and Scotty". :-)


[/quote]


[quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1837734' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:38 PM'][quote name='hodges' post='1837550' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:18 PM'][quote name='varsityhacker' post='1833399' date='Jul 21 2009, 08:53 AM']I think his website, video's etc. are there for one reason Marketing.. I think that you are silly to think that SC does it out of the kindness of his heart. Any way Titleist or SC does not support a collectors forum like TCC just ask Vog And there is a dedicated forum for other putter makers like Mills, BB, Morgan it's called PutterTalk and if you go over there a read the posts they manage to talk about different putter makers even SC and even have different views etc. and they are not censored by cowboy mods or posts being deleted and I have never heard of anyone being banned for asking questions. Why other sites can't do the same? Maybe they have something to hide or protect.[/quote]

PT LOL
The cowboys there banned me after I tried to defend the rules of the site against personal attacks. It was a Mod that was making the personal attacks. I guess the rules only apply to the members
[/quote]

And my TCC ban had to do with a comment I made about that I would like to see the "[b]Inspired by TP Mills[/b]" putter. No warning, no PM, no call from Vog. Just a moderator that had no consideration of the 1500+ posts I made (almost 100% supportive of the site and product) who banned me.

That said, I made very little contributions while geogolf made a HUGE contribution and he was banned. His ban was absolutely pathetic and the Administrator and Moderators should be ashamed.

As for you Greg, I would be in support of your PT membership being reinstated but I am not privy to the details of what happened and why. Maybe an email to the Moderators at PT would help, if that is what you want.
[/quote]

I was banned for calling Adam Scott gay.
[/quote]

Wow that is stupid you said that Adam Scotty is happy and you got banned. That site is a very dark place.

[varsityhacker]

[quote name='biscuity' post='1837988' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:31 PM'][quote name='xxio' post='1837743' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:42 PM']I guess only Cameron is qualified to put a price on confidence.[/quote]

It's not just Cameron. There are a bunch of companies selling $300 putters that are right in line with what most Cameron putters costs.

Everyone here knows that you would get beat by Tiger in a putting contest even if he was using a $15 Walmart putter. So why would anyone pay $2,500 for a Byron Damascus? Fashion, status, [b]confidence[/b].

When the pressure is on in tournament play it gives me confidence to have a nice new pair of shoes, my favorite tour player outfit, a nice set of high-end clubs and a great putter.

Each person determines what price point makes him confident that he has the equipment to play his best. For some people that means stepping up to a $69 Cleveland putter, others it means a $300 OTR putter, and for some people it means a rare and expensive putter. The guy rocking the $69 putter is probably going to scoff at the guy using a $2500 Byron, and vice-versa. But each of them are more confident than if they were using a putter that they perceived as cheap.
[/quote]

You know what gives me confidence going into a tournament, not my putter or my clubs or my clothes or the hat I am wearing. Nope it's when I am warming up on the range and I am hitting every shot just the way I pictured it in my mind. That's confidence, if you get your confidence from looking down at your $2500 putter then that tells me you suck and have to have an object to prop you up. You problay also talk to it every time you have an important putt like Judge Smails from CS. Now if you have a $2500 putter because you like it that is a different thing. Money can't buy confidence sorry, don't care what SC say's.

[randomhero1090]

[quote name='xxio' post='1837743' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:42 PM'][quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836068' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:43 PM']As for the "premium for confidence," I will buy into that to an extent. I got $500 in Golfsmith gift certs as a little contest bonus at work. I knew I wanted to get a GOOD OTR putter. With all the hype around Scotty Cameron putters, it's hard not to get a little juiced up when you 1st put one in your hands. I personally think $300 for a putter is f'n crazy. I would never spend that kind of money on a putter, but this was my opportunity to do so without taxing the normal cash flow that pays the bills.

Is it anything amazing and out of this world about it? No. Have I shot my best scores of my life? Yes. Am I a better putter after getting a SC? I guess so, the scores don't lie.

There are some amazing OTR putters in that $250-500 range. Ping Redwood for example. But I do have to say that the hype/marketing machine that is Scotty Cameron got me. But I will also so I am FAR from disappointed with my purchase. It's a great putter that works for me. Results don't lie.

As for these $2k+ putters…. I guess to each their own. I can sit at a Hold'em Table in AC with $100 and get a rush when I double up. Some people need to sit down with $5k to even be interested. Really, to each their own.[/quote]


Interesting.

Can you tell us what putter you were scoring bad with before? How many putts per round average? What was your tendency- push/pull/wrong speed, etc?

What were the specs of your previous putter- length/headweight/loft/lie/etc?

What are the specs of your Scotty?

I used to be a bad putter with a bad stroke. Averaging 35-37 putts a round. I still have that "bad stroke". I just have putters that fit it better now and my misses are not that bad. I'm averaging about 30 putts a round now.

Even the putter I was putting bad with before has been bent to my specs and I now have confidence in it.

Whether the confidence is worth $300 or $40,000 I honestly don't know. I guess only Cameron is qualified to put a price on confidence.
[/quote]

I was playing a Cleveland VR-1 (not milled). I know it was 35", 3* loft, 340g weight. Don't know the lie angle. Misses were a lot of pulls. Always seem to be missing on the low side short.

I play the SC Newport 2. 35", 4* loft. Why the weight is escaping me right this second, pretty sure its a 340g (10g weights).

I am actually a very good lag putter and really don't miss anything under 4'. But I wasn't sinking those 6-15 footers that make you score well. I never kept track of putts per round.

I will say since getting my SC, no BS, I am down to a 2. I have recently shot a 66, 67 and 70. My highest round in the last 2 months is a 76. The 66 & 67 were bogey free with only 1 U&D per round. So very few putts in the last couple of months. It also doesn't hurt to be hitting a lot of fairways and greens. But I have been making a TON of putts inside 20 feet.

I made changes to my bag in the beginning of the season, but it wasn't until getting the SC that I started really scoring well. It's all putting. Don't know what else to say about that. I stand over each putt now feeling like I am going to make it, not just thinking "don't leave yourself a 4 footer."

[stage1350]

[quote name='biscuity' post='1837988' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:31 PM'][quote name='xxio' post='1837743' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:42 PM']I guess only Cameron is qualified to put a price on confidence.[/quote]

It's not just Cameron. There are a bunch of companies selling $300 putters that are right in line with what most Cameron putters costs.

Everyone here knows that you would get beat by Tiger in a putting contest even if he was using a $15 Walmart putter. So why would anyone pay $2,500 for a Byron Damascus? Fashion, status, [b]confidence[/b].

When the pressure is on in tournament play it gives me confidence to have a nice new pair of shoes, my favorite tour player outfit, a nice set of high-end clubs and a great putter.

Each person determines what price point makes him confident that he has the equipment to play his best. For some people that means stepping up to a $69 Cleveland putter, others it means a $300 OTR putter, and for some people it means a rare and expensive putter. The guy rocking the $69 putter is probably going to scoff at the guy using a $2500 Byron, and vice-versa. But each of them are more confident than if they were using a putter that they perceived as cheap.
[/quote]

So you understand why people would poke fun of and laugh at someone that spent $2500 on a Byron (or Mills, or Bettinardi, or Machine. Have you name dropped any other companies that I missed?)

But if someone pokes fun of or laughs at someone that spent $2500 on a Cameron, you can't understand the negativity and feel compelled to label them as haters. Insert reference to spewing something, jealousy, profit margin, etc.

You're right. A $15 putter will get the job done just as well in the hands of a person with good putting skills. So why is it that the Cameron people are the only ones that get their panties in a bunch about it? The Byron guys aren't going to come on here and label you a hater, but the Cameron guys would already be passing out torches.

[xxio]

[quote name='randomhero1090' post='1838420' date='Jul 23 2009, 08:39 PM'][quote name='xxio' post='1837743' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:42 PM'][quote name='randomhero1090' post='1836068' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:43 PM']As for the "premium for confidence," I will buy into that to an extent. I got $500 in Golfsmith gift certs as a little contest bonus at work. I knew I wanted to get a GOOD OTR putter. With all the hype around Scotty Cameron putters, it's hard not to get a little juiced up when you 1st put one in your hands. I personally think $300 for a putter is f'n crazy. I would never spend that kind of money on a putter, but this was my opportunity to do so without taxing the normal cash flow that pays the bills.

Is it anything amazing and out of this world about it? No. Have I shot my best scores of my life? Yes. Am I a better putter after getting a SC? I guess so, the scores don't lie.

There are some amazing OTR putters in that $250-500 range. Ping Redwood for example. But I do have to say that the hype/marketing machine that is Scotty Cameron got me. But I will also so I am FAR from disappointed with my purchase. It's a great putter that works for me. Results don't lie.

As for these $2k+ putters…. I guess to each their own. I can sit at a Hold'em Table in AC with $100 and get a rush when I double up. Some people need to sit down with $5k to even be interested. Really, to each their own.[/quote]


Interesting.

Can you tell us what putter you were scoring bad with before? How many putts per round average? What was your tendency- push/pull/wrong speed, etc?

What were the specs of your previous putter- length/headweight/loft/lie/etc?

What are the specs of your Scotty?

I used to be a bad putter with a bad stroke. Averaging 35-37 putts a round. I still have that "bad stroke". I just have putters that fit it better now and my misses are not that bad. I'm averaging about 30 putts a round now.

Even the putter I was putting bad with before has been bent to my specs and I now have confidence in it.

Whether the confidence is worth $300 or $40,000 I honestly don't know. I guess only Cameron is qualified to put a price on confidence.
[/quote]

I was playing a Cleveland VR-1 (not milled). I know it was 35", 3* loft, 340g weight. Don't know the lie angle. Misses were a lot of pulls. Always seem to be missing on the low side short.

I play the SC Newport 2. 35", 4* loft. Why the weight is escaping me right this second, pretty sure its a 340g (10g weights).

I am actually a very good lag putter and really don't miss anything under 4'. But I wasn't sinking those 6-15 footers that make you score well. I never kept track of putts per round.

I will say since getting my SC, no BS, I am down to a 2. I have recently shot a 66, 67 and 70. My highest round in the last 2 months is a 76. The 66 & 67 were bogey free with only 1 U&D per round. So very few putts in the last couple of months. It also doesn't hurt to be hitting a lot of fairways and greens. But I have been making a TON of putts inside 20 feet.

I made changes to my bag in the beginning of the season, but it wasn't until getting the SC that I started really scoring well. It's all putting. Don't know what else to say about that. I stand over each putt now feeling like I am going to make it, not just thinking "don't leave yourself a 4 footer."
[/quote]


Thank you for the in depth response. There are still too many variables like lie angle and since you don't count putts per round to actuall attribute it to the Scotty. Are those specs actual measurment or what the specs should be? It could be off and that "off" just happened to fit you.

I would assume the GIRs aren't counted as well because if you count one the other can easily be deducted. There are some rounds where I feel I have putted well but total around 30 putts because I hit a lot of greens and burn a lot of edges. There are days where I'll shoot 76 take 27 putts but feel I didn't putt well because a lot of those would have been tap-ins from up and downs from the fringe/easy chips.

Nice to hear the scores are really good. I hope it goes on.

[DB MACHINE]

[quote name='xxio' post='1838235' date='Jul 23 2009, 02:22 AM'][quote name='DB MACHINE' post='1837839' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:25 AM'][quote name='xxio' post='1837749' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:45 PM']As to the future of putting I coursed thru the Cameron site for a good amount of time.

I think it is safe to say the "thing" that will alter the future of putting is still in the design stages. Maybe the photocopying machine is broken [/quote]


LOL!

Just wait until you see my new patent (issues in a matter of days now.....). You'll get a whole new perspective on that last comment.

-DB
[/quote]


Dave,

Maybe you shouldn't have mentioned it until the patent was issued. Some people here may no longer buy your "anser copy" they'll just wait for someone to copy the copy.

Oops did I just throw you under the bus again? Post 814 page 21 to refresh your memory. Just to ask did you ever get an apology for that remark. There was none in this thread. I mentioned that and it was ignored. I was hoping he PM'd you one.

Waiting for pics of whatever was patented.
[/quote]

xxio,

No, no apology. I wasn't holding my breath either. And, being the guy that designed the HOG putters, you have to understand that I have VERY thick skin (and I hope a good sense of humor).

The irony of your statement about not letting anyone know about the patent is that technologies are now copied so fast in this industry, and patents now usually take so long to get, that those who copy can often have several years of producing the "borrowed" ideas, and sometimes even realize the life cycle of a product before the real inventor and pioneer can successfully prosecute the patent through issuance and publication.

However, important innovations should stand the test of time, even if some copies were abandoned or were unsuccessful (often for reasons other than the value and benefits of the original invention). I believe we have such an invention, due to the benefits of the technologies represented in my IP.

We will be introducing new models that incorporate these innovations, and am eager to show everyone here, and make them available to those that may appreciate them. Prototypes were previously used by a top 10 player in the world, for top 5 finishes in multiple events. As I eluded to earlier, the story gets much more "interesting" than that. More to follow...

For those that might say that this has nothing to do with this thread, you will soon realize that it has much more relevance than you can possibly imagine. As they say, truth is often stranger than fiction. Or as foregasm says, "the truth will set you free!" And for the SC diehards, how about a few famous quotes from the movie [i]A Few Good Men[/i]:

(Nicholson) "You want answers?!"
(Tom Cruise) "I want the truth!"
(Nicholson) "You can't handle the truth!"

LOL!

-DB