Belly or Long putters = cheating?

[bobsuruncle]

My apologies if this has been debated to death somewhere else. I came across some articles questioning the ethics of the belly and long putters (where the putters are anchored to the stomach or chest / chin). Is it cheating? Would it be akin to using a swing aid (taken from the practice range) on the actual field of play?

[funkyfedora]

If it were cheating, wouldn't we see more guys using them and their putting stats go up?

[mrthorlacius]

Acc. to an editorial recently on either golf.com or golfdigest.com the stats say that there is not a statistical difference to back that claim up. This has been discussed alot, but in the end statistics about the actual results don´t lie and indicate that on average there is nothing to be gained. People can of course better their putting stroke and statistics by switching to a belly putter, but the reverse is also true. Again, on average there is not a statistical difference so no, as far as we know today it´s not cheating. At least not if we define cheating as gaining some kind of leverage (pun intended) against an opponent in a game with set rules.

[golfing7861]

yeah in this years August's Golf Digest Bomb and Gouge really take down the whole concept of a long putter

[sandwedge59]

When are some of you going to give this topic a rest .... how can you determine that anything is cheating in golf when it was LEGALIZED for play by the USGA and the R and A until the rules of golf say otherwise ....... sorry but this is to the point of annoying ,this might be a little harsh but i wish you naysayers would just shut up about it already beacause your cheating comments are just OLD

[HoosierGolfer]

This topic has in fact pretty well been done to death here and at every other online forum. It is not cheating as long as the bodies that govern golf say its legal.

I tried it once and didn't like it. I'll stick with tried and true but to each his own. I could really care less what you use to putt with.

[oregongolf]

Like many of the posters, I've also tried it and it sucked... bad. It put the gamer on notice though and it has behaved ever since.

[mshills]

You can't "just try it." If you want to try a belly or long putter you have to stick with it and practice to see if it works for you.

[Diesel]

if it's cheating, then so are 460cc drivers...

[oregongolf]

You can't "just try it." If you want to try a belly or long putter you have to stick with it and practice to see if it works for you.

Yes you can. I tried it. It didn't work for me. I went to it thinking I would make more 8-15 footers for birdie... and that wasn't the case.

 

The amount of time I took with it is irrelevant. I suppose like with anything else, putting in the time will net you some success... but I figured I should put that same amount of time into my standard putter and I've seen better results.

[mat562]

I'm against long putters for a couple of reasons:

 

I think that making a stroke with either type of club is so fundamentally different from the making of any other stroke that a cogent argument can be made that it isn't an acceptable way to hit the ball. The creation of a fulcrum against the body is my main reason for opposing the use of the clubs. It's something that isn't seen in the making of any other stroke and is alien to the 'normal' way of hitting the ball with any other club in the bag.

 

I also think that it offers an unfair advantage to certain players who may have found themselves wanting in the traditional putting method and who can clearly be seen to have dramatically improved their putting by method alone when they get their hands on a long or belly putter. That view is distinct from believing that all golfers gain an automatic advantage - which is usually the basis of the oft-quoted retort to the contrary which points out that everyone could thus be expected to use one if they really did offer such an unfair advantage.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to call the use of either type of club cheating, since that would entail something underhand and against the rules. Using a long or belly putter is obviously in neither of those categories.

 

People disagree over the issue, and the fact remains that the clubs are currently legal; but that's my take, for what it's worth, since the OP did ask the question. I don't lose sleep over it, nor do I think the R&A could care less what I think, but like everyone else it's an opinion I'm entitled to have.

[golf9596]

Give this topic a rest. The USGA says it is legal. Let it go. You would be better off practicing and worring about YOUR GANE.

[bobsuruncle]

if it's cheating, then so are 460cc drivers...

 

 

I'm against long putters for a couple of reasons:

 

I think that making a stroke with either type of club is so fundamentally different from the making of any other stroke that a cogent argument can be made that it isn't an acceptable way to hit the ball. The creation of a fulcrum against the body is my main reason for opposing the use of the clubs. It's something that isn't seen in the making of any other stroke and is alien to the 'normal' way of hitting the ball with any other club in the bag.

 

I also think that it offers an unfair advantage to certain players who may have found themselves wanting in the traditional putting method and who can clearly be seen to have dramatically improved their putting by method alone when they get their hands on a long or belly putter. That view is distinct from believing that all golfers gain an automatic advantage - which is usually the basis of the oft-quoted retort to the contrary which points out that everyone could thus be expected to use one if they really did offer such an unfair advantage.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to call the use of either type of club cheating, since that would entail something underhand and against the rules. Using a long or belly putter is obviously in neither of those categories.

 

People disagree over the issue, and the fact remains that the clubs are currently legal; but that's my take, for what it's worth, since the OP did ask the question. I don't lose sleep over it, nor do I think the R&A could care less what I think, but like everyone else it's an opinion I'm entitled to have.

 

Thank you Mat for sharing your views. You phrased it best when you say the creation of a fulcrum against the body alters the stroke fundamentally.

 

Wrt 460cc driver heads - this is not different from Starship Enterprise-shaped putter heads vs Anser-shaped heads. But what if there was a device or brace that you could take to the course which allows or helps you to swing and stay "on plane"?

 

The thought process here is as follows: the player must control the swing path for both clubs and putter. Applying a "brace" (the fulcrum) to help with the swing path is the key issue of contention. In the August issue of Golf Digest, Mike Stachura and Michael Johnson both alluded to this particular point when discussing Angel Cabrera's putter at the 2009 Masters. They were ok with him using a long putter (39") because he didn't stick the end of it (or brace it) into his belly.

[mikec222]

Acc. to an editorial recently on either golf.com or golfdigest.com the stats say that there is not a statistical difference to back that claim up. This has been discussed alot, but in the end statistics about the actual results don´t lie and indicate that on average there is nothing to be gained. People can of course better their putting stroke and statistics by switching to a belly putter, but the reverse is also true. Again, on average there is not a statistical difference so no, as far as we know today it´s not cheating. At least not if we define cheating as gaining some kind of leverage (pun intended) against an opponent in a game with set rules.

 

I wonder if this is because usually only poor putters go to belly putters

[Shanks For The Memories]

Here's a fun challenge, name one great putter who uses a long putter...

 

While you're thinking, let me explain it to you this way. The long putter is a crutch, yes, but so are cavity back irons, big huge driver heads, hybrids, and so many other devices we use to improve our game. The fact of the matter is, that the best players don't use or need these devices, but the worst do use and need them.

 

Not all basses have frets, but not all players are incapable of playing fretless basses, the reason for this is that a fretted and fretless instrument sound and play differently, and it's no different with the putters. If a person uses a long putter, then odds are that they are a crappy putter to begin with, but some may just like the feel better. The best players will always play shorter putters, because they allow a much greater level of freedom and workability.

 

Now, can you name that great putter yet? Neither can I.

 

 

This topic has in fact pretty well been done to death here and at every other online forum. It is not cheating as long as the bodies that govern golf say its legal.

I tried it once and didn't like it. I'll stick with tried and true but to each his own. I could really care less what you use to putt with.

 

Not in the post, but is that TPM related to the TPA putters that TaylorMade used to make? I have a TPA XIV, it's my heel shafted putter.

[mshills]

The best putter I know of who uses a long putter is Tim Clark, but I would not call him great.

[type-Verplank-one]

After watching Sergio try many times to putt with a long putter... Long/belly putters are not cheating at all.

[mat562]

Langer would be my case in point. I saw him putting many moons ago at Royal Lytham - including a five putt from about three feet on the 17th - and it was painful to watch. Fast forward a few years and he's a solid putter and, the wrong side of 50, tearing it up on the Seniors Tour. Nothing against the genial German but it's at least one example of a player who's re-discovered the ability to putt solely by using a method that involves the creation of a fulcrum against the body. If I remember correctly he also became, statistically, the best putter on the European Tour using his patented brace it-against-the-left-forearm method on the short ones too during the early 90's. That's perhaps another argument but it shows that for every Garcia there's someone who exhibits a clear improvement via method alone.

 

Sam Torrance and Peter Senior are other examples of players who looked ripe for packing it in because of tattered putting nerves and yet returned to the fray rejuvenated and with one of those long Wilson putters propped against their chin.

[bobsuruncle]

weighing all the comments on this thread and elsewhere, i will try to draw an analogy with the long game.

 

If there weren't hybrids and absolutely everyone had to use their 2 iron and 3 iron, then players who weren't as good with the long irons would not have the opportunity to become competitive. The same goes for the belly / long putters - those who weren't competitive with the normal putter couldn't become competitive without the belly putter. So in one sense, like hybrids with long irons, it's okay to have the belly / long putter to help some players become more competitive.

 

But, on the other hand, I still cannot get over the "bracing" act. The brace is a clear "assist" with swing path (direction but not feel, distance control, reading the breaks, etc which is why statistically it didn't show any "real" advantage). And any "assist" with swing path just doesn't seem right. There is no such "assist" with a hybrid vs a 2 iron. An "assist" for a normal shot would be akin to laying clubs on the ground for alignment and/or sticking poles into the ground around the golfer.

[307golf]

I find it so much more stable and repeatable that it feels like cheating...:) It has made a major difference in my game and while not as aesthetically pleasing as a traditional putter, I will continue to use one unless the rules change.

 

I do think you'll see more of the elite players with long/belly putters in the next couple of decades. They have only been around for a fairly short period of time and the players on tour are generally going to stay in their comfort zones. Also, they had to be the best putters to get there...

 

Interestingly, Colt Knost won the US Am and had great success with the longer putter and now has a traditional putter. Also Stewart Cink has gone "short". While on the other hand, I read that Rickie Fowler, a good putter with a traditional length, went to a longer putter (or did at least for a short while, don't know if he still is) based on the idea that he thought it was a superior method.

 

As a long putter user, it is interesting to debate and generally see what the attitudes of other golfers are when I pull out the 'Big Iron'.

 

Carry on...

[motownlambs]

if it makes the putt, who cares?

[greenpiece]

Here's a fun challenge, name one great putter who uses a long putter...

 

While you're thinking, let me explain it to you this way. The long putter is a crutch, yes, but so are cavity back irons, big huge driver heads, hybrids, and so many other devices we use to improve our game. The fact of the matter is, that the best players don't use or need these devices, but the worst do use and need them.

 

Not all basses have frets, but not all players are incapable of playing fretless basses, the reason for this is that a fretted and fretless instrument sound and play differently, and it's no different with the putters. If a person uses a long putter, then odds are that they are a crappy putter to begin with, but some may just like the feel better. The best players will always play shorter putters, because they allow a much greater level of freedom and workability.

 

Now, can you name that great putter yet? Neither can I.

 

 

Chris Couch is number one so far this year in putts per GIR. The last time I saw him, he was using a long Ping putter. But it's been a while since I've seen him, so maybe he's changed. I don't know. Stewart Cink was number one in putts per GIR a few years ago with a Never Compromise belly putter.

 

Obviously good putters probably won't switch to a long putter unless they're having problems. What we need to see is a player who started young with a long putter.

 

Also, it would be interesting to see what a very good putter would do if he switched to a long putter. Would he putt better, the same or not as well? We'll probably never know since it usually takes a major slump or the "yips" for anyone to switch to the long putter.

[mystik10]

It is cheating..:nono: .... But only if you play gimme putts to the end of the putter! :cheesy:

[Shanks For The Memories]

Ten best putts per GIR right now are:

 

Luke Donald

Steve Stricker

Dean Wilson (his putter is even shorter than mine)

Joe Ogilvie

Anthony Kim

Charlie Wi

Justin Leonard

Brian Gay

Charley Hoffman

Geoff Ogilvy

 

Ten worst are:

Tom Lehman

Jay Williamson

Peter Tomasulo

Ricky Barnes

Greg Kraft

Matthew Borchart

Glen Day

Jonathan Kay

Jeff Magert

Robert Allenby

 

Fewest putts per round is always Brad Faxton.

[cave]

In my experience guys who use the long putter do so because something was wrong with their normal putter and the long putter is a last effort to get their putting on track...

 

They either:

 

- Struggle with the long putter for eternity (while claiming it helps them)

- Switch back to traditional

...or quit the game

 

I'm against it solely because it requires a different type of swing to accomplish the same task..

 

But the USGA approves, so whatever.

 

Incidentally, putting is not my best skill but I really feel like the work is over once I get on the green. I guess that's because I don't play for huge sums of cash...

[bigstunnerdude]

I flick back and forth between the Long Putter and the Standard. I generally find when the Standard Putter is working well, its great and the potential for me holing some good putts is better. However when its bad I find I lose the swing start taking the putter outside the line, I get long in my backstroke and decelerate into the ball. I start missing putts and thats when the 3 and 4 putts creep in.

 

The Long Putter although obviously carrying a Stigma and certainly when I've walked onto the tee a couple of times I've heard someone say, "Oh look Chris has his cheatstick with him today." I find it to be my solid weapon. I putt consistant with it. I don't think I'm likely to hole as many 1st time putts with it as I could do with the short putter, but I never 3 putt or worse. Its solid 2 putts most greens and I'm away.

 

The only reason I don't use the Long Putter 100% the time is because I want to try and do better then 36 putts a round. Thats when I'll start scoring.

[greenpiece]

Ten best putts per GIR right now are:

 

Luke Donald

Steve Stricker

Dean Wilson (his putter is even shorter than mine)

Joe Ogilvie

Anthony Kim

Charlie Wi

Justin Leonard

Brian Gay

Charley Hoffman

Geoff Ogilvy

 

 

Apparently we're both right because the Golf Channel stats have Chris Couch first at 1.69 putts per GIR, and ESPN has Luke Donald first at 1.701 putts per GIR. Chris Couch must not have enough starts (8) yet to qualify on some of the stat boards.

[j-rob]

Something cant't be considered cheating if everyone is allowed to use it.

[RobotDoctor]

I just converted one of my putters to a belly putter. It is working well but I need to cut another inch off the shaft. I have added extra weight on the head and the putter feels nice. The thing I like about a belly putter is that I have connection between my arms and shoulders and swing the putter in one piece. I felt a separation between my arms and shoulders with a conventional putter leading me to an inconsistent, and unrepeatable, stroke. I now feel connected and my putting is getting better. While this style of putter is not for everyone, it just might be for me. I could care less what the perception is as long as this putter sinks putts, as it has so far.

[Shanks For The Memories]

I flick back and forth between the Long Putter and the Standard. I generally find when the Standard Putter is working well, its great and the potential for me holing some good putts is better. However when its bad I find I lose the swing start taking the putter outside the line, I get long in my backstroke and decelerate into the ball. I start missing putts and thats when the 3 and 4 putts creep in.

 

The Long Putter although obviously carrying a Stigma and certainly when I've walked onto the tee a couple of times I've heard someone say, "Oh look Chris has his cheatstick with him today." I find it to be my solid weapon. I putt consistant with it. I don't think I'm likely to hole as many 1st time putts with it as I could do with the short putter, but I never 3 putt or worse. Its solid 2 putts most greens and I'm away.

 

The only reason I don't use the Long Putter 100% the time is because I want to try and do better then 36 putts a round. Thats when I'll start scoring.

 

36 putts is the most I've ever taken in a round of golf, and this was on greens that run about 4 on the stimpmeter, and roll about as true as a car with square tires.