The evil sandbagger strikes again...

[larrybud]

Playing a 2 man net best ball tourney yesterday. We're watching the scores come in. They posted the individual scores, then the net best ball scores. So some are pretty good, a 64, (-8) but i didn't think anything was out of the ordinary, as each player had a net of around 75-77. Nothing out of line for a course with a 71.7/130 slope.

 

Then another 64 comes in, except this time, a 10 handicap shoot 76, net 66, on his own ball. He was 4 shot clear of the next net guy (a 1 who shot a net 70), and I think the next closest was a 72.

 

I look this guy up today, and he has 1 score posted in the last 12 month! What utter BS.

 

Riiight. I've played 1 round of golf in the last 12 months, and it happens to be my personal best, in a tournament nonetheless, and it's 7 shots better than my index!!

 

Thankfully we qualified (right on the # in a scorecard playoff), but now we'll have to face these guys again in the tournament.

[golfortennis]

Can this not be reported to the committee? It would seem obvious, but maybe pointing it out? Sounds like there is someone who is out who probably shouldn't be...

[hoganfan924]

No way should the GAM allow a guy with one posted round in the last year be allowed to play in a net event. I'd report it and insist that they disqualify him.

[dpark]

You could get better and start playing in "gross" events, then the only dirtbags you see are the the vanity handicappers and you can laugh at them for shooting 100.

Seriously, I was chairman of my club's tournament committee for 2 years and there is no easy way to rid yourselves of sandbaggers. You can penalize them strokes, make them play to a tournament handicap or even ban them. The problem is they are like cockroaches, no matter how many of them you kill, there are always more that turn up.

[blade_man]

Happens everywhere all the time, sandbaggers will be the last ones on the earth (like the cockroaches), my question is why? Why say you are an 18 when you're a 4? So you win? Big deal, A lot of times I don't feel worthy to play in the championship flight but if I win I have beaten the best at our club!

[MrJones]

[quote name='blade_man' post='1837696' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:22 PM']Happens everywhere all the time, sandbaggers will be the last ones on the earth (like the cockroaches), [b]my question is why? Why say you are an 18 when you're a 4? So you win? Big deal[/b], A lot of times I don't feel worthy to play in the championship flight but if I win I have beaten the best at our club![/quote]

I know of a pair of guys that sandbag in all types of tournaments all over the state. They could care less about winning as far as the prize goes. What they're after is making bets on themselves in the nassau (sp?) between the first and second days. They play just bad enough the first day to get themselves into a lower bracket, and then bet the load on themselves to win that bracket the next day.

What sucks is that it's working for them.

[shuttle1]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='1837665' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:05 PM']No way should the GAM allow a guy with one posted round in the last year be allowed to play in a net event. I'd report it and insist that they disqualify him.[/quote]

I agree.

Sandbaggers need to be called out... to their face in front of everybody, hopefully humiliated.

I hate sandbaggers. The ruin the "tournament" experience.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='dpark' post='1837677' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:12 PM']You could get better and start playing in "gross" events, then the only dirtbags you see are the the vanity handicappers and you can laugh at them for shooting 100.

Seriously, I was chairman of my club's tournament committee for 2 years and there is no easy way to rid yourselves of sandbaggers. You can penalize them strokes, make them play to a tournament handicap or even ban them. The problem is they are like cockroaches, no matter how many of them you kill, there are always more that turn up.[/quote]

Nonetheless, when you see a cockroach, you still have to step on it.

[larrybud]

[quote name='dpark' post='1837677' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:12 PM']You could get better and start playing in "gross" events, then the only dirtbags you see are the the vanity handicappers and you can laugh at them for shooting 100.

Seriously, I was chairman of my club's tournament committee for 2 years and there is no easy way to rid yourselves of sandbaggers. You can penalize them strokes, make them play to a tournament handicap or even ban them. The problem is they are like cockroaches, no matter how many of them you kill, there are always more that turn up.[/quote]
I do play in gross events (I'm currently a 2.6 index), and I play all the events the GAM has to offer, but the GAM (Golf Assoc of Michigan) doesn't have a gross best ball event.

[larrybud]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='1837665' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:05 PM']No way should the GAM allow a guy with one posted round in the last year be allowed to play in a net event. I'd report it and insist that they disqualify him.[/quote]
I wrote to the GAM just now. I didn't exactly "insist" on anything, but pointed out the ridiculousness of this, asking if they've ever considered a handicap adjustment for the person who hasn't posted.

If I hear anything back, I'll be sure to report it.

[Babydaddy]

[quote name='larrybud' post='1838450' date='Jul 23 2009, 07:58 AM'][quote name='hoganfan924' post='1837665' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:05 PM']No way should the GAM allow a guy with one posted round in the last year be allowed to play in a net event. I'd report it and insist that they disqualify him.[/quote]
I wrote to the GAM just now. I didn't exactly "insist" on anything, but pointed out the ridiculousness of this, asking if they've ever considered a handicap adjustment for the person who hasn't posted.

If I hear anything back, I'll be sure to report it.
[/quote]
Yeah, that's definitely a good solution- to lower a person who hasn't played many round's index by a percentage. That's fair.
One year, I played in a member guest and hadn't been able to play many rounds leading up to it. My hcp was about a 6, but they indexed me down to 4.1
The funny thing was that the first nine hole match my score was a one under par 35! But I threw some 39's in there, etc..
I thought at the time that this was fair, and it taught me a lesson about making sure I have enough rounds leading into a tournament.

Sandbagging is real problem that makes me sometimes not want to play in tournaments as much!

Noelsy

[slim16er]

They should take into consideration the Exceptional Tournament Score right? Your handicap should be adjusted for the second day.

[ballshagger]

Believe it or not, I've seen worse.
How about a net 58.

[wolfpackblack]

[quote name='shuttle1' post='1837927' date='Jul 22 2009, 11:03 PM'][quote name='hoganfan924' post='1837665' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:05 PM']No way should the GAM allow a guy with one posted round in the last year be allowed to play in a net event. I'd report it and insist that they disqualify him.[/quote]

I agree.

Sandbaggers need to be called out... to their face in front of everybody, hopefully humiliated.

I hate sandbaggers. The ruin the "tournament" experience.
[/quote]

haha, that's one of my favorite past times. The only satisfaction you can get when you've been sandbagged is letting the sandbagger know what you think of it, in front of as many people as possible.

It's been my experience that once you throw the first stone, the mob isn't far behind.

[WilCox]

It seems to me that sandbagging has gotten more prevalent in the last few years. I won't bet with anyone I don't know or can't verify their index. Sad.

[Sawgrass]

I wonder if eliminating prizes from a tournament would eliminate sandbaggers. If only a modest trophy were awarded, perhaps sandbagger's motivation would be eliminated? I don't know what really motivates them, but it seems too odd that someone would cheat in order to get a trophy which could only remind them of their cheating.

[WilCox]

[quote name='Sawgrass' post='1851125' date='Jul 29 2009, 03:06 PM']I wonder if eliminating prizes from a tournament would eliminate sandbaggers. If only a modest trophy were awarded, perhaps sandbagger's motivation would be eliminated? I don't know what really motivates them, but it seems too odd that someone would cheat in order to get a trophy which could only remind them of their cheating.[/quote]

It's all about putting on a front for others. Cheating? No sandbagger with a trophy case tells the people he displays them for that he entered with a fake hcap to get an unfair advantage. Money? People will do almost anything for very little money these days. We live in a country where everything is for sale including integrity.

I've actually played in tourneys where people yell out "CHEAT TO WIN!" and then laugh. I played in a tourney once where in an 80 man field, 26 eagles were recorded.

[larrybud]

I finally got a response:

"This question [my question to the GAM about this guy] was sent to me by Ken Hartman for answer. Thanks, and let me give you a little background. The committee for the GAM Net Events goes over every person prior to each qualifier and contacts those individuals that have "suspect" scoring records or who need further review. (We don't publicize it, but many are "cut" prior to the competition.) The person that you are referring to was one of those individuals. If the only criteria was a complete scoring record we would have had a major issue with him but he has played in several other Net Events and never been a problem. What you don't know is that immediately following the round at Greystone he was pulled aside and told that his score was almost out of the range of statistical-probability. Let me assure you that he is under heavy review for the championship and the committee will decide the appropriate handicap for him based on several factors.

We try very hard to make sure the playing field is level and every person feels he has a chance to win as he steps to the first tee. We will continue to protect all participants in the Net Events and we appreciate the fact that you have played.
"

[fpc]

All handicapped events should be flighted and then played scratch among the players in a designated range. I happened to have a great score for my cap in the first round of an event. Was adjusted down 5 strokes and never had a chance after that.. When a pro shoots 61 and vaults into the lead then shoots 70, 71 and holds on to win. It's a win. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sandbagging has jaded the system to the point that you are guilty for being on top of your game on a given day.
Sandbaggers be dammed.

[Boomermike]

Dispells the laughable myth that golf is a gentleman's game, doesn't it? Fact is, nothing is a "gentleman's" anything in this world. You'll find as high a percentage of "deviant minded" or "criminal minded" people on a golf course as you will on a neighborhood basketball court in South Central L.A. on any given day of the week. The golfers might be wealthier and better educated, but stealing is stealing. Sandbagging to win tournament money is 100% identical to robbing a liquor store. Only difference is the liquor store robbers have more guts because they're risking being shot and they know it - the sandbaggers, on the other hands, are bigger cowards because they know that the vast majority of white-collar types who play in golf tournaments are too chicken-s*** to call them out for their crimes.

[SadTrombone]

[quote name='ballshagger' post='1844980' date='Jul 26 2009, 10:53 PM']Believe it or not, I've seen worse.
How about a net 58.[/quote]
How about 3 in a row on 3 different courses over 3 consecutive days?

...that's how my last club's club "championship" was won. They had a gross "division" but the big trophy went to the "net" winner.

What a load of dung.

-mini

[AltusBeliever]

At our member guest this past weekend a team shot 66 gross and 48 net!!! WTF!! Pro kicked them out of the net division, and should have kicked them out of the field. 48 net is 24 under for a two man team on a very solid golf course. I played in one once where my 18 handicap partner shot 78! I managed to cut him a couple and we shot about 57 or 58. I felt bad about it but my partner had a career day. I hate handicap events.

[jrsass]

Sandbagging will go on for as long as tournament give out $$ for winning.

People will do "ANYTHING" for money.

enough said.

[joekelli]

[quote name='tjy355' post='1838414' date='Jul 23 2009, 08:36 AM']Nonetheless, when you see a cockroach, you still have to step on it.[/quote]


Not true! If you step on a cockroach you can carry the eggs on your shoe and take them home!

[slim16er]

Bringing this thread back b/c I have something more ridiculous.

Member/guest - 4 guys - 2 best balls. Not an easy course, but too tough.

Former club champ shoots his standard 68 - no shots. A few guys come in with net 66s and 65s, no real surprise. Then......dun dun dun...... a 61.......in case you think I may have mistyped......a 61!

A guy who went off as a 21 hcp shot 82.

And we were only using 90% of hcps.

He received a lot of glaring eyes at the ceremony afterwords.

[Jean-Claude]

This is exactly why I will never play in these tournies. I would love to. But the sand bagging player problem would get the best of me. I would not be able to keep my trap shut and I would go insane on people. It would end up being me kicked out. lol

I can not turn a blind eye to cheaters. I can not keep my mouth shut about them. I have a deep-rooted hatred for cheaters. My lips would speak unspeakable things.

I'd just assume play until I am good enough to play w/o using handicaps in tournies.