I Think I Figured Out What Happened to Etiquette

[David Hillman]

golf coaches!

   A handful of times in the past two months, I've tried to play some twilight golf after work... only to find a dead-stopped golf course behind groups of high school teams with no apparent idea how to get around a golf course.  Isn't anyone teaching these kids anything anymore?

   Tonight was the worst.  I played the first five holes in about a half-hour, and then caught two foursomes of high school girls.  First of all, none of these girls had any business on this course, even from the 5200y reds.  It slopes at 132 despite being a short 6400y course, largely because the greens are very difficult.  Especially late in the day, when the grain makes them virtually unputtable.  If you are going to play a course like this, you need to be able to, at least, align yourself on the tee!  Few of them were even aiming for the fairway.

   So that's bad enough, but I wouldn't say anything if they had a clue.  But no, no one ready to hit when the hole is finally open.  Leaving their bags 15y off the front, and having to double-back and retrieve them.  Socializing on the green instead of moving on to the next hole.  Etcetera.

   And they had a coach with them!  And he was worse.  I finally snapped when, on the long par 4 #9, he sat in his cart in the middle of the fairway 60y behind the girls, watching them for about 10 minutes when I could've been hitting.  He finally pulled up, and I hit my drive ( actually ripped it, too, because I was trying to roll it close to him ).  I wound up across the fairway, but since I had plenty of time ( the girls still weren't on the green ) I drove up and politely asked him what he was doing.  I believe I said, "As if your girls aren't slow enough already, is there a reason you needed to sit in the fairway instead of letting me hit?"  He did apologize, but actually said "I didn't even think to look behind me."

   WTF!  These girls would've backed up virtually any course in existance, and you can't imagine that someone would be behind you?  What about the freakin' single who's been waiting 10 minutes on every shot for the last four holes?  Did you assume he gave up and went home?  ( To be fair, the two singles who caught me, took one look at the foursome and bugged out. )

   I know, as a single, I would've been waiting on them regardless... but that's much easier to swallow when they aren't being rude about it.  I guess I can't really blame the girls.  I'm sure they didn't pick the course, and if they have no one to teach them how to behave, they won't know better.

[OldSkoolTexan]

You didnt know? Every junior golfer is getting ready for Q school nowdays. Marking 1ft putts for a quad, elaborate pre-shot routines, taking extra time on the way to the next tee so they can practice signing autographs. I would rather be behind a group of 5 seniors than 3 kids....

[k.kim913]

as far as i know.. school teams are supposed to let other golfers pass through when possible.. even if the school has two teams together.. you might want to check with pro shop to see if that rule goes for their course too.. esp as a single.. you should have no problem playing through.. it would be a lot better than waiting 4 holes behind them.. imo

[MongooseDog]

got behind the high school girls at the course a few weeks ago and it was horrible. took 30 min to play the last 2 holes.

[ducktape]

Two years ago I ran into a high school thing as well. I was meeting up with 2 friends that ran 5 min late due to a traffic accident. I was on the tee and told the starter that they were inside paying and should be out any minute. He asked the coach if they would mind waiting (2 foursomes) he said yes and wouldnt wait. So I thought ok maybe they were good seeing that almost all the kids were sporting the latest and greatest equipment. Wrong. All but 2 were not good. 3 hours into the round we got to the 7th tee. Its a rolling hilly fairway that goes out about 180 yrds and goes down hill then back up to a raised green. We replayed the par 3 6th hole twice so we could put some distance between us. When we got to the 7th there was nobody in sight. I had a smoke and still no one in sight. So we hit. As soon as we were done we see them walking up to the green. We felt a little bad but we thought more then enough time passed. Well he moaned to the Ranger and we got an ear full. We told the Ranger our side and he then agreed with us. Once we got to the 10th there was the Coach. I said sorry 3 times but he kept going. Thats when I lost it and pretty much threatened to bury my driver in the side of his head. He shut up and let us play through. I hate for things to get that far but 3 Im sorrys is my limit.

[k.kim913]

[quote name='ducktape' post='1953612' date='Sep 15 2009, 11:20 PM']Once we got to the 10th there was the Coach. I said sorry 3 times but he kept going. Thats when I lost it and pretty much threatened to bury my driver in the side of his head. He shut up and let us play through. I hate for things to get that far but 3 Im sorrys is my limit.[/quote]


now thats how you handle a situation.. assertiveness is the key haha

[Ryan_Less]

yea but at least they were probably hot!

(at least from a high school boys perspective)

[marrigo]

I recently had the exact opposite happen to me. Caught the local high school boys team (actually, one girl on it who won a local girls PGA tournament by 24 strokes) on a par three. Assistant coach was there and immediately asked if I wanted to play through. Since there were at least three groups in front of them I declined and decided to skip to the back side which has a tee adjacent to the par 3. Unfortunately found a group on that hole so doubled back and got behind the high school team again. Well the head coach saw me on the next tee and shot over in his cart and was livid that they kids had not let me play through. I made sure to tell him that I had indeed asked but that i tried to skip to the back. He immediately called to the group who were in the fairway at that point and told them to let me play through. He told me that the team is specifically instructed to let anyone who gets behind them to play through immediately. Now that's how it should be.

[fishlips723]

[quote name='David Hillman' post='1953356' date='Sep 15 2009, 10:10 PM']A handful of times in the past two months, I've tried to play some twilight golf after work... only to find a dead-stopped golf course behind groups of high school teams with no apparent idea how to get around a golf course. Isn't anyone teaching these kids anything anymore?

Tonight was the worst. I played the first five holes in about a half-hour, and then caught two foursomes of high school girls. First of all, none of these girls had any business on this course, even from the 5200y reds. It slopes at 132 despite being a short 6400y course, largely because the greens are very difficult. Especially late in the day, when the grain makes them virtually unputtable. If you are going to play a course like this, you need to be able to, at least, align yourself on the tee! Few of them were even aiming for the fairway.

So that's bad enough, but I wouldn't say anything if they had a clue. But no, no one ready to hit when the hole is finally open. Leaving their bags 15y off the front, and having to double-back and retrieve them. Socializing on the green instead of moving on to the next hole. Etcetera.

And they had a coach with them! And he was worse. I finally snapped when, on the long par 4 #9, he sat in his cart in the middle of the fairway 60y behind the girls, watching them for about 10 minutes when I could've been hitting. He finally pulled up, and I hit my drive ( actually ripped it, too, because I was trying to roll it close to him ). I wound up across the fairway, but since I had plenty of time ( the girls still weren't on the green ) I drove up and politely asked him what he was doing. I believe I said, "As if your girls aren't slow enough already, is there a reason you needed to sit in the fairway instead of letting me hit?" He did apologize, but actually said "I didn't even think to look behind me."

WTF! These girls would've backed up virtually any course in existance, and you can't imagine that someone would be behind you? What about the freakin' single who's been waiting 10 minutes on every shot for the last four holes? Did you assume he gave up and went home? ( To be fair, the two singles who caught me, took one look at the foursome and bugged out. )

I know, as a single, I would've been waiting on them regardless... but that's much easier to swallow when they aren't being rude about it. I guess I can't really blame the girls. I'm sure they didn't pick the course, and if they have no one to teach them how to behave, they won't know better.[/quote]
The high school coaches are the worst.
Clueless bunch that are out of touch, our local team is slow, dont repair their divots or ball-marks.They have no idea as to what to do once on the green, they leave their bags on right when they'll have to leave on the left.

All this under the "watchfull eyes of their coach".

I have a friend that has two high school boys that have been taught properly with manners and etiquetes.I had suggested to the course that any kid that wants to play at our course must play 18 holes with him to learn the ropes, but it fell on deaf ears.
You cant get mad the kids if there is no one to teach them the correct ways.

[coachemup]

I am a high school golf coach and I wouldn't consider myself to be "The Worst"!!! I am also an independent equipment tester for several companies, electronics operator, golf teacher/fitter and tournament player. Please don't lump all high school golf coaches together because there are quite a few of us who go above and beyond our job descriptions.

With that said, I do understand where some of you guys are coming from. Around here we don't call those individuals that you speak of golf coaches, we call them "golf sitters". What makes matters worse is when the coach tries to play along with the kids and he can't break 120 either.

At my school, the players must pass a written rules and etiquette test before they are even allowed to go to the course. 3 failures and you don't make it past the driving the range. If I witness or hear about through course staff, any foolishness on the course or other violations of general golf decorum, then you get your playing privileges suspended. I do not put up with that crap period.

I know that people joke around about coaches trying to create the next Tiger Woods and such, but that is far from the case. Sure there are some talented kids out there, but for the most part we get kids that shoot from 90-120. It is our job to try and help those kids not only learn to score lower, but also to enjoy the game and benefit from what the game has to offer. It is a game for a lifetime you know

[Matt727]

I play on a high school team, I'm the number one man, so I'm always concerned with the pace. At practice on Tuesday a guy drove up to the tee on the 14th hole, we were in the fairway. Coach wasn't paying attention lol, so I suggested we let him through. He hit, and played right through, no problem. We are also instructed to let anyone play through immediately. No questions! Thats how it should be for sure.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Matt and Coachmeup: Thanks to both of you for letting us know there are a lot of coaches and teams out there doing the right things. Congrats to both of you for the example you set.

I know a local coach in my area, and he is very much along the lines of you coachmeup, he wants them to learn everything about the game, including etiquette and proper pace of play.

All that said, I have been on our local course a couple times behind one of the HS teams and it was as painful as the other posters have mentioned. Just like all walks of life, some good and some bad. We shouldn't lump everyone in the same category.

[golfortennis]

The coach in the OP's story probably also has the girls line up their bags on the range the same way, and hit club on a schedule, all in an attempt to intimidate the opposition.

[sooperstring]

I am not sure about the specifics of any of this, but I will say this is one of the reasons I don't play twilight any more. No matter how quickly you play, there's always someone who really wants to get in 18 holes in an hour and thirty minutes, and gets livid when they aren't allowed to.

If they were so miserably slow, why not just skip their group? You miss a hole, but gets you more play time.

Granted they should have let you play through, and it sounds like the coach was clueless, but you get what you get when you play public courses, and right or wrong, being shocked when non-pros play there too is the more baffling part of a lot of these stories.

[David Hillman]

For the record, sooperstring, I didn't get livid just I because I caught them. When I'm playing solo, I move, so if I got mad everytime I caught someone, I'd have to quit.

After finishing five, I walked over and checked with the guy who had just hit off the 4th tee, in case it was somehow his Nike I'd found in that fairway. It wasn't, so I told him I'd see him in a couple holes. He caught me on 7 tee, so we played that one together, and had plenty of time to chat. Real nice guy from the UK, and I recommended a few other local courses to him. He bailed after that, so I got in a ton of chipping practice between the blues and whites.

I didn't go skipping around the course because, well, I don't own the place. And unlike some golfers, I realize that. Even if I wanted to do skip around, there's was no good way to do so. 6-7-8 are off in one corner of the property, so short of driving through a bunch of other games, I was were I was. As for playing-through, I was taught that it is rude to request to do so. I will if the group ahead offers, but I'm not asking. Admittedly, some people see that differently.

And I'm not shocked to see a non-pro... I'm very much in that category myself. You can play abysmal golf at a decent pace, too.

[Crazie.eddie]

I was in the practice chipping area at Inwood in Joliet, Illinois last week. The practice chipping area is close to one of the fairways. I was practicing my flops, when all of a sudden, I heard a thud right next to me. As I looked, I saw a ball roll by. Then I turned around, looking where it came from, and noticed a few high school girls at the tee box. Not even a "Fore", scream, or any type of yell warning me of the ball coming towards me. They didn't even raise their hand to waive an apology. Not until the girl that hit the bad tee shot, approach her ball, then look at me and say sorry.

[mhk5000]

Wow - I wonder if this is a regional problem. I'm in southern california and all of the HS golf teams (boys & girls) I've encountered have really good players. Heck even the second string players trying to make the travelling team are pretty good. So the pace of play is pretty good and they are usually waiting on the paying public let out before them.

Also - are people talking about running into teams during practice sessions or during a competitive tournament. If it's practice, then the course needs to tell the players and coaches to let the paid customers play through. If it's a tournament, then the course needs to manage this better.

Otherwise, if girls are not shooting in the 80's then the school should reconsider their competitive golf team.

[Ryan_Less]

[quote name='mhk5000' post='1955108' date='Sep 16 2009, 04:17 PM']Wow - I wonder if this is a regional problem. I'm in southern california and all of the HS golf teams (boys & girls) I've encountered have really good players. Heck even the second string players trying to make the travelling team are pretty good. So the pace of play is pretty good and they are usually waiting on the paying public let out before them.

Also - are people talking about running into teams during practice sessions or during a competitive tournament. If it's practice, then the course needs to tell the players and coaches to let the paid customers play through. If it's a tournament, then the course needs to manage this better.

Otherwise, if girls are not shooting in the 80's then the school should reconsider their competitive golf team.[/quote]


wow i guess in our area we shouldn't have any competitive girls teams since oh maybe about 6 girls in northern nevada can shoot in the 80's

the last high school tournament was won with an 82

[oregongolf]

[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' post='1953436' date='Sep 15 2009, 07:42 PM']You didnt know? Every junior golfer is getting ready for Q school nowdays. Marking 1ft putts for a quad, elaborate pre-shot routines, taking extra time on the way to the next tee so they can practice signing autographs. I would rather be behind a group of 5 seniors than 3 kids....[/quote]
Are you sure you're not in that group of five seniors... ?

[mojo_13]

At the course I play the high school team is very good at letting us play through. I'm usually not in a big hurry but I do play through most of the time just to help move everything along. I talked to the coach and was told that they were to let everyone play through. It's too bad that this isn't the case everywhere. I do like the idea of having to take some sort of test to be able to get on the course for HS golfers, in fact maybe every course should do this forall paying customers

[hackingitup]

I thought I was the only one! I recently got caught behind a HS girls golf meet and the good shots were going 50yds. Golf sitters for both schools, no offer to play through and denied playing through when I finally asked one of the girls. The golf sitters were usually parked in carts half way down the fairway, and seemed to be avoiding me.

I've only been playing a few years and don't take myself very seriously. I've never lost it on the course over anything as I'm usually having too good of a time no matter how bad I'm playing. This was the exception and on 18, I finally hit a drive over their heads as they were deciding which club to use for the next 50yd shot. I was too mad to talk to the golf sitters or the pro, but I will handle it differently next time.

Hopefully there are some HS golf sitters reading this thread, but I'm pretty sure they don't come here.

Kudos to the coaches and HS golfers here who do it the right way! So cool.

h.

[Smack Daddy]

At the end of the day, imo, it also comes back to the parents.

During our Junior CC, there were a couple of good juniors who were sooooo slow. You know the drill, they have pricey instructors resulting in long elaborate pre-shoot routines. These kids are taught to not even think until it is their turn to play. Hello six hour rounds.

Well, a couple kids got called into the Pro Shop for a discussion on their slow play. They basically flipped off the pro with their parents in the room. And the parents said nothing....what a joke. If I had ever flipped off an authority figure my mother would have pounded me, and good on that too.

[hackingitup]

[quote name='mhk5000' post='1955108' date='Sep 16 2009, 06:17 PM']Wow - I wonder if this is a regional problem. I'm in southern california and all of the HS golf teams (boys & girls) I've encountered have really good players. Heck even the second string players trying to make the travelling team are pretty good. So the pace of play is pretty good and they are usually waiting on the paying public let out before them.

Also - are people talking about running into teams during practice sessions or during a competitive tournament. If it's practice, then the course needs to tell the players and coaches to let the paid customers play through. If it's a tournament, then the course needs to manage this better.

Otherwise, if girls are not shooting in the 80's then the school should reconsider their competitive golf team.[/quote]

I actually think it is a regional problem. This is yet another reason I envy you california people! I'm in wisconsin and there doesn't seem to be enough good coaches around. The chemistry teacher isn't necessarily the best golf coach.

I recently got caught behind a HS girls golf meet and the good shots were going 50yds. Golf sitters for both schools, no offer to play through and denied playing through when I finally asked one of the girls. The golf sitters were usually parked in carts half way down the fairway, and seemed to be avoiding me.

I've only been playing a few years and don't take myself very seriously. I've never lost it on the course over anything as I'm usually having too good of a time no matter how bad I'm playing. This was the exception and on 18, I finally hit a drive over their heads as they were deciding which club to use for the next 50yd shot. I was too mad to talk to the golf sitters or the pro, but I will handle it differently next time.

Hopefully there are some HS golf sitters reading this thread, but I'm pretty sure they don't come here.

Kudos to the coaches and HS golfers here who do it the right way! So cool.

h.

[turbo4door]

I'm going to have to test it out here. Girls golf team has been out nearly every time I've been over the last two weeks. I usually skip to the opposite 9 from them, but I'll have to see what happens if I tee up a hole behind.

I bet they let me play through (at least I hope they would)

[mshills]

The death of the caddy program has not helped things either.

The best way to learn about etiquette, pace of play, where to put your bag when you are on the green, and all of the "basics" which ought to be ingrained in anyone who plays golf is to start off as a caddy. You'll never forget the things you learn about the game.