Using a broom to clean sand/pebbles on green

[randy6675]

Is using a small broom, like a baseball umpire's whisk broom, to clean movable obstructions on a green legal? I play in the desert southwest, and because of the high winds in the spring, many courses use a very coarse "sand". It is more like small gravel. On holes with bunkers, there is always a lot of this "sand" on the green, and often times in the putting line. If legal, I would start using one of these brooms to speed up the removal process.

 

Thank you.

[jaskanski]

Afraid not. Loose impedements may only be removed by the players hand or club - no other implement may be used. See Rule 16-1.

[Newby]

[quote name='randy6675' date='10 March 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1268253367' post='2307139']
Is using a small broom, like a baseball umpire's whisk broom, to clean movable obstructions on a green legal? I play in the desert southwest, and because of the high winds in the spring, many courses use a very coarse "sand". It is more like small gravel. On holes with bunkers, there is always a lot of this "sand" on the green, and often times in the putting line. If legal, I would start using one of these brooms to speed up the removal process.

Thank you.
[/quote]


[quote name='jaskanski' date='10 March 2010 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1268253992' post='2307168']
Afraid not. Loose impedements may only be removed by the players hand or club - no other implement may be used. See Rule 16-1.
[/quote]

The post above is wrong. 16-1 says nothing like that.

Dec 23-1/1 Loose impediments may be moved by any means, except that, in removing loose impediments on the line of putt, the player must not press anything down (16-1a).

However, in addition to not pressing anything down you must be careful not to be thought to be roughening the surface for the purpose of testing the surface. (16-1d)

[url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-16/"]Rule 16 link[/url]

[jaskanski]

[quote name='Newby' date='10 March 2010 - 08:59 PM' timestamp='1268254757' post='2307206']
[quote name='randy6675' date='10 March 2010 - 08:36 PM' timestamp='1268253367' post='2307139']
Is using a small broom, like a baseball umpire's whisk broom, to clean movable obstructions on a green legal? I play in the desert southwest, and because of the high winds in the spring, many courses use a very coarse "sand". It is more like small gravel. On holes with bunkers, there is always a lot of this "sand" on the green, and often times in the putting line. If legal, I would start using one of these brooms to speed up the removal process.

Thank you.
[/quote]


[quote name='jaskanski' date='10 March 2010 - 08:46 PM' timestamp='1268253992' post='2307168']
Afraid not. Loose impedements may only be removed by the players hand or club - no other implement may be used. See Rule 16-1.
[/quote]

The post above is wrong. 16-1 says nothing like that.

Dec 23-1/1 Loose impediments may be moved by any means, except that, in removing loose impediments on the line of putt, the player must not press anything down (16-1a).

However, in addition to not pressing anything down you must be careful not to be thought to be roughening the surface for the purpose of testing the surface. (16-1d)

[url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-16/"]Rule 16 link[/url]
[/quote]

Know your rules! decision 16 - 1a/8 for example states:
Q - A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with a cap or towel. Is this permissible?
A - [b]NO.[/b] Such action is a breach of rule 16-1a, which permits the player to touch the line of his putt in removing loose impediments [b]only with his hand or a club.[/b] We are talking [b]specifically [/b]about the [b]line of putt - [/b]otherwise, yes, any method can be employed to remove loose impediments. The impression I was given from the OP was to remove such from the putting line (read above).
The same would obviously apply to a brush of some kind. Seems pretty clear to me. Anyone else that thinks I'm wrong would like to chime in?

[Sawgrass]

Know your rules! decision 16 - 1a/8 for example states:

Q - A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with a cap or towel. Is this permissible?

A - NO. Such action is a breach of rule 16-1a, which permits the player to touch the line of his putt in removing loose impediments only with his hand or a club. We are talking specifically about the line of putt - otherwise, yes, any method can be employed to remove loose impediments. The impression I was given from the OP was to remove such from the putting line (read above).

The same would obviously apply to a brush of some kind. Seems pretty clear to me. Anyone else that thinks I'm wrong would like to chime in?

 

 

This is too wierd. The USGA site has this decision listed as 16-1a/8:

 

16-1a/8 Loose Impediments Removed from Line of Putt with Cap or Towel

 

Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible?

 

A. Yes, provided he did not press anything down.

 

 

Where are you getting your information from Jaskanski?

 

 

[jaskanski]

Holy sh*t! My decisions book is out of date? Apparently, it's one of the latest revisions. *apologies* Don't tell me you can use a Dyson to clean your putting line now?

[TheGeekGolfer]

yeah...you can basically use anything to clear your line of putt. This was from Rich Beem (I think?) getting a penalty for using his hat to clear a bunch of debris from his line of putt a few years ago. I use a towel to clear alot of sand, etc. I'd like to use a little tiny lawn mower that cleared a nice line to the hole

[Newby]

[quote name='jaskanski' date='10 March 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1268256159' post='2307262']
Holy sh*t! My decisions book is out of date? Apparently, it's one of the latest revisions. *apologies* Don't tell me you can use a Dyson to clean your putting line now?
[/quote]

The current decision goes back at least to 2004

[Sawgrass]

Holy sh*t! My decisions book is out of date? Apparently, it's one of the latest revisions. *apologies* Don't tell me you can use a Dyson to clean your putting line now?

 

The current decision goes back at least to 2004

 

 

"Honey, where's my new hammer?"

 

"It's gone Fred. We sold it in that yard sale we had when we moved in 1986."

[jaskanski]

Guess I'll be buying a new book soon.

Next you guys will be telling me that hot faced drivers are illegal and balls are made of some sort of urethane...

[randy6675]

[quote name='TheGeekGolfer' date='10 March 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1268257313' post='2307290']
yeah...you can basically use anything to clear your line of putt. This was from Rich Beem (I think?) getting a penalty for using his hat to clear a bunch of debris from his line of putt a few years ago. I use a towel to clear alot of sand, etc. [b]I'd like to use a little tiny lawn mower that cleared a nice line to the hole [/b]
[/quote]


Hey, maybe instead of a whisk broom, I can just use my lawn tractor as golf cart. Oops, can't ride on the green . I guess I'll stick to the broom.
Thanks guys.

[green-keeper]

[quote]Hey, maybe instead of a whisk broom, I can just use my lawn tractor as golf cart. Oops, can't ride on the green . I guess I'll stick to the broom.[/quote]

But keep rule 14-3 in mind!
You are not allowed to use unusual equipment on the golf course.
The use of a cap or a towel to brush away sand on the putting green line in Decision 16-1/8 would be alright.

A Dyson or even a little broom would go too far.

Greenkeeper

[KevCarter]

[quote name='green-keeper' date='11 March 2010 - 05:56 AM' timestamp='1268308610' post='2308612']
[quote]Hey, maybe instead of a whisk broom, I can just use my lawn tractor as golf cart. Oops, can't ride on the green . I guess I'll stick to the broom.[/quote]

But keep rule 14-3 in mind!
You are not allowed to use unusual equipment on the golf course.
The use of a cap or a towel to brush away sand on the putting green line in Decision 16-1/8 would be alright.

A Dyson or even a little broom would go too far.

Greenkeeper
[/quote]

Greenkeeper,

I want to disagree with you on this one, but I'm not positive. I would just like to dig a little deeper...

I think the use of a broom or leaf blower would be OK. It's not unusual use of equipment, and the equipment is being used in a manner it was designed to be used. You just must not push anything down in the process.

I could be wrong, not trying to argue, I just want to be sure we get the answer correct.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Newby]

[quote name='kevcarter ' date='11 March 2010 - 12:46 PM' timestamp='1268311592' post='2308652']
[quote name='green-keeper' date='11 March 2010 - 05:56 AM' timestamp='1268308610' post='2308612']
[quote]Hey, maybe instead of a whisk broom, I can just use my lawn tractor as golf cart. Oops, can't ride on the green . I guess I'll stick to the broom.[/quote]

But keep rule 14-3 in mind!
You are not allowed to use unusual equipment on the golf course.
The use of a cap or a towel to brush away sand on the putting green line in Decision 16-1/8 would be alright.

A Dyson or even a little broom would go too far.

Greenkeeper
[/quote]

Greenkeeper,

I want to disagree with you on this one, but I'm not positive. I would just like to dig a little deeper...

I think the use of a broom or leaf blower would be OK. It's not unusual use of equipment, and the equipment is being used in a manner it was designed to be used. You just must not push anything down in the process.

I could be wrong, not trying to argue, I just want to be sure we get the answer correct.

Thanks,
Kevin
[/quote]

Kevin
You are correct. I have had it informally from the R&A that in theory a handy JCB could be used to move a LI.

The point being that the list of things in 14-3 that the item may not be used for does not include removing LIs.

[grabthepin]

A JCB is unusual equipment that will assist the play, but 14-3 does specify "except as provided in the Rules", and Decision 23-1/1 ("by any means") is the allowing exception.

Personally I believe the Rules should fix what I see as a 'loophole', for a premise of the RoG is to preserve the game of golf.

For one could also hop in a bulldozer and move a huge fallen (detached) tree if it could be done without excess delay. And this simply is not golf.

Tiger, although legal, drew much criticism using the crowd to move a boulder for him. I can handle that, but using equipment that has no place in the game is wrong IMO.

[jaskanski]

*Sigh* Ironic isn't it? If the R&A had left the old decision intact (like in my old copy ) then it would remove any ambiguity regarding what you could and could not use to remove loose impediments from your putting line. Hand or club seems fine to me - it's certainly essential to have at least one of each to play golf - unless they changes the rules on that anytime soon.