How to deal with a pro?

[jahopki]

Is he teaching bad etiquette by example?

We've got a fairly good size Thursday evening league here that starts play ~5:00. We only "count" 9 holes for the league, but we'll play until dark and usually get in 18. We got to the course last night and saw a 5-some head out just before we started, but didn't think much of it because we figured we'd be allowed to play through if we caught up to them. Turns out, we were wrong. Two of the players were pretty good from what we were witnessing, but 3 of them were not very good at all; the two good ones appeared to be giving some direction to the other 3. Turns out that one of the good players is one of the pros from our courses (we've got several in the area as part of our Property Owners' Association) and he was giving playing lessons to these folks. We were waiting for them on every tee and with every approach shot and they never once appeared to consider asking us through; they finally speed up (a bit) on the 7th hole after the play manager spoke to them, but we still kept pace easily. After 9 they left and we were off to the races; my group got in 18, but there were others that could have had we not been held up so much on our front 9.

So my question is: "How do I deal with this pro that clearly demonstrated, in my opinion, very poor etiquette by not letting faster groups play through?" Do I speak with him directly, knowing that it won't do much good based on my previous experiences with his attitude, or do I call the Director of Golf for the POA (his boss) and try to get an understanding of the expectation of pace of play when a pro is doing his job and giving playing lessons? Or is my understanding of the rules of etiquette in this matter confused?

[Coach Ritz]

Why was he giving lessons on "league night" in the first place, especially in a 5some? I play in a league on a course with 27 holes and 18 of them are blocked out for the league. If the daily fee folks fill the other 9 then the Pro if he has a "playing lesson" skips around with the person but always stays out of the leagues way. He is very courteous that way. I would speak to him first as a courtesy and if enough other league players also same something to him, maybe it will register by the end of August.

[jahopki]

ooohhhh -- so that's where it starts getting really complicated... The pro in question is actually a member of one of the teams and I'm [u]assuming[/u] he was playing this particular 9 holes because that's where his team was designated to play. He was (and again, I'm assuming here) killing two birds with one stone -- giving playing lessons and getting his score posted for the team. It's a handicapped league, and his handicap has him at +3 in the league (which is pretty accurate relative to the scores he's been posting).

[Coach Ritz]

Well if it were me I would tell him to teach on his time and not on my time. I have never been one to keep my opinions to myself LOL I would ask him if he would like it if I brought some of my HS students to play so I could Coach them as we played and made sure I was put in front of his group. I would of course bring my beginning golfers too. OK my free period is over off to teach the little darlings. Have a good day

[mshills]

It's absurd to allow a five-some on the golf course, and even worse for the pro to try to "squeeze in some teaching" on league night.

You should talk to the pro, and also find out whichever nitwit let a five-some off during league night.

[rony]

I guess it is different in other parts of the country, but in NY........League Night is.......LEAGUE NIGHT! They have absolute priority on the course!

[KevCarter]

Just curious how much they really held you up?

You started at 5:00 and finished 18 before dark. Its dark about 8:45 here this time of year, 3:45 for 18 sounds pretty reasonable. Sounds like the issue is more how it looked to you than actually hurting anybody? Perhaps there is an explanation for why they were out at this time for a playing lesson that would be acceptable? In my area, fivesomes are allowed at most courses anytime.

I'm surprised at how fired up posters are sounding over this...

Kevin

[jahopki]

Good point there, Kevin, about the pace of play -- 18 holes in < 4 hours isn't too bad (and is really good on a weekend morning around here, but sadly that wasn't the case in this story)... My real issue is with the fact that he's both a member of our league and a pro trying to "do his job" while concurrently participating in the league. My contention is that part of his job, when teaching the game, is to adhere to the generally accepted rules of etiquette. There were a total of 5 groups on the course (sorry if I didn't clearly indicate that ours wasn't the only one held up) waiting on tees / fairways and his group was the hold-up. Regardless of whether or not your group is moving faster than "normal" or not, if someone catches up to you and is clearly waiting on you to play, then (I thought) the rules of etiquette dictate that the slower group should allow the faster group to play through. So my question about dealing with the pro, restated, is: "When a pro is working with one or more players and is not adhering to the rules of etiquette, how should I best deal with his lack of complete instruction?"

On our courses, 5-somes are allowed to play after 11:00; however, they are encouraged / required to allow faster groups to play through. It's more than just about the looks of the situation: multiple groups were held up; not all were able to finish 18 holes when they should have been able to do so (and consequently "hurt" by the situation); he's failing to demonstrate what I believe to be one of the most fundamental pieces of this gentleman's game; and the only reason for him to chose a playing lesson at this time, on these 9 holes, is because he had to perform the lesson [u]and[/u] get his score posted for the league.


-- reason for edit: meant to type "18 [u]holes[/u] < 4 hours" instead of "18 [u]hours[/u] in 4 hours"

[KevCarter]

I'm sorry, I'm still having a tough time seeing your point.

The group played faster than the accepted pace of play. Just because all the groups behind them felt like they were in a race, why should the group following the accepted guidelines have to stop to let each group through, lengthening their round and potentially ruining their day.

Not adhering to the rules of etiquette? Where I come from, the folks not being gentlemen were those pushing the group and ruining their day. I understand it's become a me,me,me world, but be reasonable and be happy you have professionals that will take the time from his busy schedule to play with the members.

Apologies for the mini rant.

Kevin




[quote name='jahopki' date='28 May 2010 - 10:13 PM' timestamp='1275102832' post='2474159']
Good point there, Kevin, about the pace of play -- 18 hours in < 4 hours isn't too bad (and is really good on a weekend morning around here, but sadly that wasn't the case in this story)... My real issue is with the fact that he's both a member of our league and a pro trying to "do his job" while concurrently participating in the league. My contention is that part of his job, when teaching the game, is to adhere to the generally accepted rules of etiquette. There were a total of 5 groups on the course (sorry if I didn't clearly indicate that ours wasn't the only one held up) waiting on tees / fairways and his group was the hold-up. Regardless of whether or not your group is moving faster than "normal" or not, if someone catches up to you and is clearly waiting on you to play, then (I thought) the rules of etiquette dictate that the slower group should allow the faster group to play through. So my question about dealing with the pro, restated, is: "When a pro is working with one or more players and is not adhering to the rules of etiquette, how should I best deal with his lack of complete instruction?"

On our courses, 5-somes are allowed to play after 11:00; however, they are encouraged / required to allow faster groups to play through. It's more than just about the looks of the situation: multiple groups were held up; not all were able to finish 18 holes when they should have been able to do so (and consequently "hurt" by the situation); he's failing to demonstrate what I believe to be one of the most fundamental pieces of this gentleman's game; and the only reason for him to chose a playing lesson at this time, on these 9 holes, is because he had to perform the lesson [u]and[/u] get his score posted for the league.
[/quote]

[jahopki]

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one... A playing lesson costs additional $$$ with every professional I've ever had contact with, so it's not as if he's going out of his way at all, and he certainly didn't "go out of his way" because he was going to be playing those same 9 holes, at that same time -- he's a double winner in the situation because he's posting a score for the league and getting paid for it by giving instruction at the same time. I'm not familiar with an "accepted pace of play" concept -- I've always been told to play at a pace that you're comfortable with, but if you hold up another group, you are expected to allow them to play through. If all of us being held up by the slower group "ruined their day," then they brought it on themselves in my (our) opinion by creating unnecessary frustration for all of the groups behind them.