"THERE MUST BE ENOUGH LATERAL MOTION FORWARD TO TRANSFER THE WEIGHT TO THE LEFT FOOT"

[williambenjamin11]

I mean, do you have to think about or do something consciously to achieve the pitchy elbow?

[williambenjamin11]

Now this is becoming entertaining again! There's no better way to pass time than watching this topic!... Lol

Just wondering, why is it that if someone has a theory against one's opinion, it gets whacked. Why can't the other disagreeing dude just say he disarees and then state his own opinion and explain why?

There are many watching, these back and forth whacking is un-sportsmanlike, especially under golf standard.

This is not golf anymore... Its becoming a sitcom.. Its hilarious though... Lol

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Siteseer2' timestamp='1297223771' post='2962018']

You from the Hardy school? Anybody who has their left arm in deep punch/inside the baseline has major extensor thrust to kick the sweetspot out. No, other way to do it. It works, but it ain't optimal imo....been there, done that...

Also WAY to much focus on rotation, IMO--- bunch of whirling dervishes, or so it seems...
[/quote]

Not from Hardy's. Actually I don't even know those styles like S&T and others because they haven't been interesting to me for years.

As to open little bit my backround I have been teaching and coaching about 20 years now and last 6 of those has been also developing 4DSwing device as an CTO. Big part of that work at the first years to really deeply find out and understand where in the space joints are moving and which direction without any confusional elements. Thats the reason I talk so often about 2D-illusion, because I went so badly wrong many times during the first years by that.

After we started to get valid information out of Our device, it was time for second round. It was biomechanical study about human body in golf swing. Not very deep, but something that has to be understood well and clearly something You can point out and prove easily.

Long intro, but now to target:

One clear situation is that as much shoulders are open at impact, as much must front arm be across the body from it's basic situation at posture. So if You got it at 10deg at posture and You get 30 deg open shoulders at impact, Your left arm is about 40deg across. About every degree of that bends the elbow of back arm, because it stays same amount on the right side of the center line of the boy and os can't be straight. If hands are together, human being can only have both arms straight when hands are on the center line of the body So You can quite well read those situations each way. Open shoulders means bended right elbow and bended elbow means open shoulders at impact.

You can also read other things from those movements. When back elbow is under the front elbow, the player has rotated club face open. If he still hits it straight, You have to find some other happening that makes it fit. I haven't found anything else than pure rotation. Lateral moves in every situation distroys that geometry! I don't mean there should not be lateral motion, but it's only to take support for left leg and then quickly get back from there.

That all might put out some interesting questions later like what happened to the 2-lever swing model? How those guys in my pictures hit it so far even when their right elbow and right hip comes to the impact at same time? What happens to the kinematic chain? How can slowing down inner circle give any power to outer? Specially if the front arm stays deep and connected to the chest? And much much more...

someone asked about Furyk: he is at some parts more Hogan than Hogan himself Some other parts earlier in the swing are from the different world, but some are Hogans moves x 2.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1297204011' post='2961172']
You stated that the right elbow motion being more forward will make the right arm straighten faster, seems that its not the underlying issue to me , looking at those pics . You make up broad statements like the right elbow is subdued to the body motion, well exactly what part of the body motion ?[/quote]


Learn how to read with understanding. Not elbow joint, but humerus. The consequence of subduing the humerus to the main body movement is stalling of the rear elbow in relation to the turning body. The elbow does not even need to touch the hip or to stay behind it.

[quote]
So now you know morad yet its not published , how do you know what O'Grady calls it , or what he based his research on. I stated he knows tgm yet you conclude his whole research is based on archaic incompetent sources ( another direct shot at tgm, yet you would not know what is on page 1 of that book ). You constantly write that all these sources are sub par , and yet you can't explain anything about them.[/quote]


I do not know MORAD although I'd love to. I just responded to your previous post in which there was an assumption that O'Grady took the nomenclature from TGM.


[quote]
FYI , although I should not need to post it , cause you know morad and the research , there are 3 elbow locations defined and they can vary from the positions through-out the swing . For example at P1 elbow location may be # 2 and at P3 it may be at #1, and this is really just scratching basics [/quote]


Excellent, but does this stuff relate directly to our dispute ? Does MORAD have more options/definitions to describe swing motion reality than "black or white" TGM ?



[quote name='lake' timestamp='1297223437' post='2962006']I have never heard Mac utter the world "pitch" in my time w/ him...what is going on here...what made you come to that opinion D???
Lets get some video up here and see what you are talking about w/ Hogan's elbow. After all this time D...I know you have to feel you have a very good handle on this.
[/quote]

L, look at my response to Eight.
BTW, do we really need a video to understand what I talk about ??? I thought it is a very simple phenomenon...


[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1297230936' post='2962279']
Now this is becoming entertaining again! There's no better way to pass time than watching this topic!... Lol
Just wondering, why is it that if someone has a theory against one's opinion, it gets whacked. Why can't the other disagreeing dude just say he disarees and then state his own opinion and explain why?
There are many watching, these back and forth whacking is un-sportsmanlike, especially under golf standard.
This is not golf anymore... Its becoming a sitcom.. Its hilarious though... Lol
[/quote]

If you were objective, you'd notice that some of us try our best to present the case and answer all questions while the other part only asks and nefgates bringing nothing creative. Too difficult for you to notice it so you put everyone to one sack ???


[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1297236681' post='2962309']someone asked about Furyk: he is at some parts more Hogan than Hogan himself Some other parts earlier in the swing are from the different world, but some are Hogans moves x 2.
[/quote]

I agree 200% to your statement. Furyk's the best ballstriker of recent years and not without reason. I always underlined that his downswing is the best today if consistency and accuracy is the main goal. But of course it does not count because he does not use this funny pitch elbow...lmao.

Cheers

[eightiron]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1297239191' post='2962328']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1297204011' post='2961172']
You stated that the right elbow motion being more forward will make the right arm straighten faster, seems that its not the underlying issue to me , looking at those pics . You make up broad statements like the right elbow is subdued to the body motion, well exactly what part of the body motion ?[/quote]

[b]
Learn how to read with understanding. Not elbow joint, but humerus. The consequence of subduing the humerus to the main body movement is stalling of the rear elbow in relation to the turning body. The elbow does not even need to touch the hip or to stay behind it[/b].

[quote]
So now you know morad yet its not published , how do you know what O'Grady calls it , or what he based his research on. I stated he knows tgm yet you conclude his whole research is based on archaic incompetent sources ( another direct shot at tgm, yet you would not know what is on page 1 of that book ). You constantly write that all these sources are sub par , and yet you can't explain anything about them.[/quote]


I do not know MORAD although I'd love to. I just responded to your previous post in which there was an assumption that O'Grady took the nomenclature from TGM.
[b]
[/b]
[b]whats the archaic incompetent sources he used[/b]? TGM ?

[quote]
FYI , although I should not need to post it , cause you know morad and the research , there are 3 elbow locations defined and they can vary from the positions through-out the swing . For example at P1 elbow location may be # 2 and at P3 it may be at #1, and this is really just scratching basics [/quote]


Excellent, but does this stuff relate directly to our dispute ? Does MORAD have more options/definitions to describe swing motion reality than "black or white" TGM ?
[b]
I'm sure it does , just as stack n tilt boys say it isnt black and white . Exactly how is tgm black and white , besides the paper and printin[/b]g

Cheers
[/quote]

Lets just back track .... you wrote this

[color="#1C2837"][size="2"][b]As regards pitch elbow concept comparing to Hogan's elbow there are crucial differences. They are very visible when watching O'Grady's motion that you brought. In short (since we have discussed it ad nauseum here), just to remind - Hogan's rear elbow moves forward till the biolimit then stalls at the rear hip until coming into impact zone and just moves alongside with body pivot (and no its own motion in relation to the body); Mac's elbow moves forward and continue to move in relation to his body all the time until entering the impact zone ending with having it too much in the front of the hip/body.- no stalling here = no fixing the motion of the rear elbow to the main body movemen[/b]t.[/size][/color]
[color="#1C2837"] [/color]
[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]and say I can't read with understanding !! exactly where did you mention humerus? so lets get an exact definition of how the humerus is subdued to the main body movement........ how and from when in the swing.... just give us the how ...main event ... what are we talking , no arms / noodle arms with a rotating main body or what ?[/size][/color]
[color="#1C2837"] [/color]
[size="3"][color="#1C2837"] [/color][/size]

[eightiron]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1297236681' post='2962309']
..

someone asked about Furyk: he is at some parts more Hogan than Hogan himself Some other parts earlier in the swing are from the different world, but some are Hogans moves x 2.
[/quote]

What parts are more Hogan than Hogan himself? plus the x2 deal

[dap]

Furyk is a great player but he is hardly the best ballstriker in recent years.Where are the stats to back up this personal opinion?He has never been higher than 24th in the ballstriking stats.Most years he is around the middle of the field.

I disagree that Furyk shares similar swing dynamics to Hogan even during the downswing.Jim is far bigger than Hogan but is a very short hitter.It's quite unbelievable that anyone would compare Furyk's swing to Hogan's other than to be controversial.Don't forget it's also easier to hit the ball straighter with a 105mph swing than one that's 125mph.It may have nothing to do with swing mechanics.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1297240538' post='2962338']and say I can't read with understanding !! exactly where did you mention humerus? so lets get an exact definition of how the humerus is subdued to the main body movement........ how and from when in the swing.... just give us the how ...main event ... what are we talking , no arms / noodle arms with a rotating main body or what [/quote]

Well, how about this quote that I wrote directly to you then:

[b]As per Eight's question - yes, the consequences of the "Hogan's disorder" are that the rear arm of Hogan keeps its bend longer and it does not move further than necessary so that the relation between humerus and the main body is tight and he could hit it with his pivot consistently. [/b]

IMO, his humerus part of the arm was subdued as soon as his elbow reached its apex in moving forward and started to move alongside with turning body without changing this correlation until entering the impact zone. It was also said, but you do not read what others write to you.


[quote name='dap' timestamp='1297256156' post='2962445']
Furyk is a great player but he is hardly the best ballstriker in recent years.Where are the stats to back up this personal opinion?He has never been higher than 24th in the ballstriking stats.Most years he is around the middle of the field.

I disagree that Furyk shares similar swing dynamics to Hogan even during the downswing.Jim is far bigger than Hogan but is a very short hitter.It's quite unbelievable that anyone would compare Furyk's swing to Hogan's other than to be controversial.Don't forget it's also easier to hit the ball straighter with a 105mph swing than one that's 125mph.It may have nothing to do with swing mechanics.
[/quote]

Trackman people, who measured all pros, said that Furyk's numbers as regards consistency and accuracy are the best [b]by far[/b]. I believe also his FIR numbers were amongst best all the time. It is not his fault that today's golf favours ballwhackers who can spread shots everywhere without punishment on long courses. I am more than sure in less pampered times Furyk's record would be impressive.

Cheers

[dap]

Trackman people, who measured all pros, said that Furyk's numbers as regards consistency and accuracy are the best [b]by far[/b]. I believe also his FIR numbers were amongst best all the time. It is not his fault that today's golf favours ballwhackers who can spread shots everywhere without punishment on long courses. I am more than sure in less pampered times Furyk's record would be impressive.

Cheers
[/quote]
Where did they do the measurements?At the range?Golf is not played on the practice range,it is played on a golf course.

Go to pgatour.com and check the stats out for yourself.He has NEVER been higher than 24th in the ballstriking stats.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1297258213' post='2962485']
Where did they do the measurements?At the range?Golf is not played on the practice range,it is played on a golf course.
Go to pgatour.com and check the stats out for yourself.He has NEVER been higher than 24th in the ballstriking stats.
[/quote]

Let's suppose they did all their measurements on the range and let's suppose that the measurements went different on a course during real play. What would be the conclusions ? That Furyk are capable to achieve the best numbers in a stressless situation while he's not strong enough to maintain this ability under stress.
We do not discuss here mental issues but what biomechanic values makes swing motions better than others. If Furyk could zero out Trackman the most consistant and repeatable way in the same stressless conditions as other pros it means that his motion is better in this area. Simple as that.

BTW, what are criteria of ballstriking stats on pgatour.com ?

Cheers

[dap]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1297260378' post='2962540']
Let's suppose they did all their measurements on the range and let's suppose that the measurements went different on a course during real play. What would be the conclusions ? That Furyk are capable to achieve the best numbers in a stressless situation while he's not strong enough to maintain this ability under stress.
We do not discuss here mental issues but what biomechanic values makes swing motions better than others. If Furyk could zero out Trackman the most consistant and repeatable way in the same stressless conditions as other pros it means that his motion is better in this area. Simple as that.

BTW, what are criteria of ballstriking stats on pgatour.com ?

Cheers
[/quote]
How the heck does trackman numbers taken on the range absolutely determine ballstriking ability?

Out on the golf course in the real world,at the very highest level of competition,the very best ballstrikers may fade one off the tee on a left to right dogleg and then may need to draw one into a green depending on where the pin is placed.Both shots require totally different trackman numbers.On the next hole,a draw off the tee may be required followed by a fade into the green.Are you getting my point?

Ballstriking stats combine total driving and GIR's.Total driving combine fairways hit and distance.

Hitting fairways is not always an indication of good ballstriking.In any case,if you look at the stats at pgatour.com which goes all the way back to 1980,Fred Funk and Joe Durant consistently hit more fairways than Furyk.The stats simply doesn't back up the opinion that Furyk is EASILY the best ballstriker in the last 6 or 7 years.

[eightiron]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1297257290' post='2962467']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1297240538' post='2962338']and say I can't read with understanding !! exactly where did you mention humerus? so lets get an exact definition of how the humerus is subdued to the main body movement........ how and from when in the swing.... just give us the how ...main event ... what are we talking , no arms / noodle arms with a rotating main body or what [/quote]

Well, how about this quote that I wrote directly to you then:

[b]As per Eight's question - yes, the consequences of the "Hogan's disorder" are that the rear arm of Hogan keeps its bend longer and it does not move further than necessary so that the relation between humerus and the main body is tight and he could hit it with his pivot consistently. [/b]

IMO, his humerus part of the arm was subdued as soon as his elbow reached its apex in moving forward and started to move alongside with turning body without changing this correlation until entering the impact zone. It was also said, but you do not read what others write to you.


[/quote]

Yeah, I missed that humerus part , but i read , unfortunately your English implies that consequence is the same as relationship, well not where I got schooled .
So the elbow stalls and moves with the turning body? That's a fact or is there video evidence to support this , or something measured showing this stall ?
Is the humerus attached in front of the shirt seam Or way behind it as in your type elbow location? Is the elbow really stalling or is it just. Part of release overtaking segments?
Can you answer the one on Mac swing about his right arm ? Right arm is still bent a fair amount past impact

So let's say it does stall a fraction and he hits it with his pivot, then it's not just this rotation weak turning pivot and hope stuff, what happened to extension and side tilt , did they miss out on the action? And even then if that's the answer what are you going to say about the three right hands ? You surely can't try and sell the right hand slap hinge booty off punch elbow as being hogan, I can't find one swing of him in punch elbow

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1297261840' post='2962584']
[
How the heck does trackman numbers taken on the range absolutely determine ballstriking ability?


[/quote]

They don't. They just said: The tour pros are amazingly good at being consistent with their club path and face angle. Of all the tour pro data I have ever seen, Jim Furyk is the one with the most consistent club path and face angle (about 0.4 degrees in consistency with his driver), and in addition Furyk’s average club path and face angle for the data I have seen are exactly 0 degrees. "

[eightiron]

This trackman report was years ago, some Wally measured a few players........ Exactly who else did measure? Names, facts

I read that bit Tee, just a couple of the trackman measurements, tilt maestro had some fifty swings of Charlie Wi measuring zero as well, and manz the stallion lights up trackman like a pinball machine.... Got to include them with hogan as well, hey.... Let's be fair now

[tembolo1284]

I don't understand how you can say hitting balls the most consistenly on the range as per trackman means you have the best motion from a biomechnical standpoint or be the best ballstriker. You can have a swing like Trevino and know you hit a 20 yard push and 1 yard fade. So you appropriately stand open and you hit a 'straight ball' down the range with a fade all day long. The trackman will say you hit the ball straight and your swing path was nearly perfect down the line. But you are in fact way open with your body alignment. Is it consistent, yes...biomechanicallyl ideal? I think it has nothing to do with it from the Trackman numbers.

The guy with the best swing is going to be the guy that can hit as many different shots as possible at will, and with the least effort and the least moving parts/corrections/adjustments in mid swing...and this is what real golf calls for. Even Hogan himself never practiced hitting the same shot over and over and over. He would hit one straight, then a draw, then a fade...all at diff trajectories.

[markponi]

I feel like Hogan's extension and side tilt was massive compared to a lot of other players. Does this contribute to his high finish and the extreme amount of time his right arm and club shaft stay in a straight line on the follow through? I've been experimenting with this and the extension really seems to help me from slinging the clubface down the line (which for me leads to rehinging and bigtime snappers).

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1297261840' post='2962584']How the heck does trackman numbers taken on the range absolutely determine ballstriking ability?

Out on the golf course in the real world,at the very highest level of competition,the very best ballstrikers may fade one off the tee on a left to right dogleg and then may need to draw one into a green depending on where the pin is placed.Both shots require totally different trackman numbers.On the next hole,a draw off the tee may be required followed by a fade into the green.Are you getting my point?

[/quote]

Yes, I get your point. However, good ballstriking is not only ability to shape ball trajectory but also repeatability and consistency of shotmaking. Would you call a great ballstriker someone who can shape trajectories very well on command but only in 50% of attempts ?
Hogan, Moe and Trevino are famous as the greatest ballstrikers not because of their supernatural ability of shaping trajectories but rather because of their repeatability and consistency.
Furyk is the most consistant (this is where Trackman numbers are helpful) of the best ballstrikers of today's era. Enough for me to sacrifice more time for my researches to him than e.g. to Woods or Mickelson. Do you get my point ?


[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1297263167' post='2962625']So the elbow stalls and moves with the turning body? That's a fact or is there video evidence to support this , or something measured showing this stall ?
Is the humerus attached in front of the shirt seam Or way behind it as in your type elbow location? Is the elbow really stalling or is it just. Part of release overtaking segments?
Can you answer the one on Mac swing about his right arm ? Right arm is still bent a fair amount past impact

So let's say it does stall a fraction and he hits it with his pivot, then it's not just this rotation weak turning pivot and hope stuff, what happened to extension and side tilt , did they miss out on the action? And even then if that's the answer what are you going to say about the three right hands ? You surely can't try and sell the right hand slap hinge booty off punch elbow as being hogan, I can't find one swing of him in punch elbow
[/quote]


Don't put things into my mouth. Where did I say all these strange things you say now ??? Where do I want to "sell" Hogan as slap-hinge or push elbow player ???
As usually - if someone lacks arguments starts to imagine things...lol.


[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1297263408' post='2962628']
This trackman report was years ago, some Wally measured a few players........ Exactly who else did measure? Names, facts
I read that bit Tee, just a couple of the trackman measurements, tilt maestro had some fifty swings of Charlie Wi measuring zero as well, and manz the stallion lights up trackman like a pinball machine.... Got to include them with hogan as well, hey.... Let's be fair now
[/quote]

Simply hilarious. Some Wally measured a few players...if some Charlie Wi or other similar not very well known names that can support anything for you or your TGM/MORAD/S&T colleagues were mentioned in Furyk's place by anyone from Trackman we all would be reminded about it in every second thread, lmao.
Trackman people confirmed only Furyk's class, not anyone more. If I see other names in other reports I may change my point of view. I can say I zero my numbers better than anyone - will you believe me ? Lol.

Cheers

[icepower]

[attachment=726074:jimVSben.jpg]

[dap]

Dariusz J,

No you obviously haven't gotten my point.Just because Furyk can get good trackman numbers at a driving range doesn't mean he can do it just as well on the golf course.Do I have to keep mentioning that his ballstriking stats are good but not outstanding.Have you even looked at the stats?I bet you couldn't be bothered because you might see some stuff you might not like.

Also the trackman testing was probably done over a day or two.Furyk may have just been in the best form of his life at the precise moment in time.The PGA stats are over an entire season,not a few days.That is how you truly judge repaeatibility and consistency,not over a couple range sessions with a trackman.

[dap]

The PGA tour stats are for all to see.Just go to www.pgatour.com

This so called trackman testing of all the pros nobody has ever posted.Where is it?

[Lake]

IRONIC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvoTgwDS2w&feature=player_embedded

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1297274121' post='2963107']
Dariusz J,

No you obviously haven't gotten my point.Just because Furyk can get good trackman numbers at a driving range doesn't mean he can do it just as well on the golf course.Do I have to keep mentioning that his ballstriking stats are good but not outstanding.Have you even looked at the stats?I bet you couldn't be bothered because you might see some stuff you might not like.

Also the trackman testing was probably done over a day or two.Furyk may have just been in the best form of his life at the precise moment in time.The PGA stats are over an entire season,not a few days.That is how you truly judge repaeatibility and consistency,not over a couple range sessions with a trackman.
[/quote]

OK, so let's just agree to disagree over Furyk. For me he's the best ballstriker of last decade for you he's not. What's beyond any doubt, even for naysayers, is that he's above average amongst all tour pros.


[quote name='dap' timestamp='1297274436' post='2963125']
The PGA tour stats are for all to see.Just go to www.pgatour.com

This so called trackman testing of all the pros nobody has ever posted.Where is it?
[/quote]

Trackman newsletter #4, January 2009. There is no list, just Furyk's name appearing as the golden standard unattainable for the rest of pros. Vide attached PDF, page no.4.


[quote name='lake' timestamp='1297275320' post='2963165']
IRONIC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NvoTgwDS2w&feature=player_embedded
[/quote]

What's the relevance of putting here excerpts of an old 2008 year YT vid to the discussion apart for a clumsy attempt to belittle Furyk for not knowing new ball flight laws back then ?

Cheers

[supercharger]

I do not know how anyone can question Jim furyk's ballstriking or any part of his game or swing. He is last year's winner of the fed ex cup which shows consistency over a years period. Look at his stats over the last 10 years specifically majors and his average finish in them. I think the op topic has been lost here again.

[Lake]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1297281420' post='2963457']
What's the relevance of putting here excerpts of an old 2008 year YT vid to the discussion apart for a clumsy attempt to belittle Furyk for not knowing new ball flight laws back then ?

Cheers
[/quote]

Just another example of what pro's say they do or think vs. what they do....Cheers to you too

BTW...I finally read through this thread...got held up on the attached bio articles...how does any of this help???...speaking of clumsy!!

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='lake' timestamp='1297283261' post='2963547']BTW...I finally read through this thread...got held up on the attached bio articles...how does any of this help???...speaking of clumsy!!
[/quote]

Well, you need to ask this question to all these golfers who read them and benefitted from them...

Cheers

[eightiron]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1297263167' post='2962625']So the elbow stalls and moves with the turning body? That's a fact or is there video evidence to support this , or something measured showing this stall ?
Is the humerus attached in front of the shirt seam Or way behind it as in your type elbow location? Is the elbow really stalling or is it just. Part of release overtaking segments?
Can you answer the one on Mac swing about his right arm ? Right arm is still bent a fair amount past impact

So let's say it does stall a fraction and he hits it with his pivot, then it's not just this rotation weak turning pivot and hope stuff, what happened to extension and side tilt , did they miss out on the action? And even then if that's the answer what are you going to say about the three right hands ? You surely can't try and sell the right hand slap hinge booty off punch elbow as being hogan, I can't find one swing of him in punch elbow
[/quote]


[b]Don't put things into my mouth. Where did I say all these strange things you say now ??? Where do I want to "sell" Hogan as slap-hinge or push elbow player ???
As usually - if someone lacks arguments starts to imagine things...

[/b]
Well , all I read is a response filled with nothing in response to elbow location and shirt seam , right arm bend , overtaking rates, extension and side tilt, no answer to your statement re Mac and the rate at which the right arm straightens.What happened to actual answers...

Just as in ground forces , I find that your body motion plane science is just totally different to actual experts......

However, let's just say they are all wrong , then that would elevate you to the pinnacle of research , and make your pattern the ultimate link between the great ball strikers of history.

Imagine that[b] ,[/b] dariusz , with that home made swing standing in the middle, being the link between all the great ball strikers, and there you are standing on the top of newtons shoulders , guess I shouldn't ask any questions

[supercharger]

My goodness eightiron, you are really have a chip on your shoulder. What are you afraid of? Even though you do not believe in darius's theory which is publised worldwide on the net and personally produced the action as best he could with his own body should account for at least respect of him to open new ground. If people are told something over and over by an authoritive figure they will believe it. This comes from Hitlers cabinet team. This is why tv and magazines get more respect than they deserve and it all revolves around money. Why cannot we debate with reasons why actions will or will not work in the golf swing without adding vast amounts of quotes and writings to only confuse readers. Either people get tired of the extra wording in the threads or feel stupid because all of the politician style non subject matter that makes the speaker sound smarter than they are. Eightiron, you post as you know much and people speak as you do also, could you post some of this for the forum to see?

[JOEGOLFWRX]

paging [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law"]mr godwin[/url], paging [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law"]mr godwin[/url], lol.

D, in hogans full swings can you tell us what is the earliest and the latest you've seen the humerus begin and end the subdued to the pivot period ?

roughly, use Px.y

(oh yeah, re furyk, ..imo, it's between the ears that he approaches hogan, he's not great from the rough that's why he avoids it, great player)

[dap]

[quote name='supercharger' timestamp='1297281479' post='2963462']
I do not know how anyone can question Jim furyk's ballstriking or any part of his game or swing. He is last year's winner of the fed ex cup which shows consistency over a years period. Look at his stats over the last 10 years specifically majors and his average finish in them. I think the op topic has been lost here again.
[/quote]
Who's questioning Furyk's ballstriking?He's definitely above average but to say he is EASILY the best ballstriker in recent years is a bit of a stretch especially since the stats simply doesn't back this up.There are guys like Senden,Funk and Durant who year in year out hit more fairways and GIR's than Furyk.

Regarding his record in majors,there are many players who have better records.Tiger has 14 of them and nobody calls him easily the best ballstriker.Until Furyk he wins another one he will still be considered a one major wonder.

[williambenjamin11]

In connection with the OP's orig topic, just learned that VJ Trolio in his book Final Missing Piece has said you lateral during bs and just turn hips in ds. What's the major objection/criticism in this book again? I believe the book was "attacked" in this forum in the past?