"THERE MUST BE ENOUGH LATERAL MOTION FORWARD TO TRANSFER THE WEIGHT TO THE LEFT FOOT"

[tembolo1284]

DBB, why did you delete everything! Just because some silly Americans attacked you?

Seriously? What a weenie.

I always like your posts about Hogan, I think you contribute a lot to the forums.

Put them back!

[supercharger]

Yes, Darius does contribute as much as anyone. I feel it is his right to retract his posts if the option is there, just as the option for posters not to validate there writings with video or explain how the body produces certain motions is also an option. I really do not know why we cannot state our views and then live with the outcome of being right or wrong. Right or wrong does not really matter if we are educated for the better in the end. But to be educated and proven wrong we must show why and how the opposing side is wrong, or at least provide a good civilized argument. We are discussing the greatest game on earth, we should discuss it like it is supposed to be played.

[dcfas]

[quote name='larryrsf' timestamp='1291421841' post='2822201']
[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1291410366' post='2821906']
[quote name='larryrsf' timestamp='1291405359' post='2821724'] So if you can't do it, don't give up. Your teaching pro may know how to PUT you in that position and let you feel the irresistible urge to shift, then swing. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIUC9S0z0bY"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=VIUC9S0z0bY[/url] Notice my teacher use a club handle to gently push me into the right top position. From there, i started down in the right sequence, and you will see the club shaft aligned with my left forearm, perfect. And 100% verification of an on-plane downswing. Take lessons! Make your guy show you how to do this. Larry [/quote] Sorry Larry, no offense... <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VIUC9S0z0bY?fs=1&hl=de_DE"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VIUC9S0z0bY?fs=1&hl=de_DE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object> with your aproach you will push the next time more OTT (muscles will respond to contraction) - if your teacher pushed in the opposite direction I can imagine you would have a better feel what to do the next time without your teacher... Hopefully your aproach will work - it is just my opinion. Chris
[/quote]

That was a one-time demostration to me of where my backswing top should be. But it was only part of the answer, the remainder is the vitally important[i][b] "down and under" move[/b][/i] that all good golfers make and nearly no amateurs do. It is simply bringing the arms straight down while we are turned back and simultaneously shifting to our front leg to setup the pivot swing. The club shaft should pass UNDER a line in parallel with the target a foot high and a few inches inside the target line through the ball-- exactly as required in Jack Nicklaus' "Inside Approach" training aid.

Here I am trying to do it better than that earlier video--and here is my PGA pro demonstrating this move in slow motion. He says this move is THE difference between elite level golfers and about 99% of amateurs. Those who can do it are the Club Champion and those who compete with him..

[indent][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovVX_5N3mw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iovVX_5N3mw[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdun-LhrBVQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdun-LhrBVQ[/url][/indent]Larry
[/quote]

I think of this "down and under" move as side arming a baseball rather than throwing from over the top of the shoulder.

[williambenjamin11]

Larry, I think that "down and under move" is what should happen, I agree, but you don't put yourself into that move by using your arms, as you said pull it down. If you have to consciously pull it down, that means you're shoulders/arms are acting first in transition/ds (instead of hips first). Also, you'll lose the lag earlier, hence will result to less strong shots, and you have to time the pull down of arms "by the arms", which can be done alright but not consistently.

I think you have to position your arms, shoulders, hands, wrists, hips and club in a specific manner at the top of bs like Hogan, and a terrific description is 8i's posts in this thread (where he described point by point the function of right side/arm), and in other topics (where he describes the bs with specific focus on what the left side/arm/hands does; its there somewhere, can't remember where, but I hope 8i can reiterate it in points here).

If your bs is correct, all you have to do, again, is rotate the hips correctly first, which will automatically pull or bring down the arms without losing the lag (in fact it increases), goes inside/under, in to out, and will cause you to move laterally and result to the topic/title.

The beauty of hips first is you cannot hit it left. Remember the lesson of Nicklaus in timing the swing, the more you use hip first in ds, the more you'll hit it right/fade; the more you hit it arms/shoulders first, the more you'll hit it left/draw? This principle I believe is the basis when Hogan said he hit it straighter the harder he swings. He always use hip first, and the slower/weaker he used the upper body/shoulders/arms, of course the more the ball goes right/fades; so, the harder he swung the upper body/shoulders/arms, the lesser the ball goes right/fades, hence straighter.

However, the correct rotation, again, is, to me, very difficult to master, and cannot be put into words. Although Hogan said the muscles involved in doing it, I had a hard time figuring that out, except it suggests it involves both right and left hips and thigh. And I think the Hogan counterfall/lateral in bs is a prerequisite, though I'm experimenting in eliminating it by preseting or achieving the Hogan bs counterfall's objective at setup/address. Hope that helps Larry.

[williambenjamin11]

Been itching to tell this, in connection with the Nicklaus lesson above, i think this is the reason why Hogan hooked the ball when his foot slipped in the 55 US Open. Sevam1 says his right foot slipped, and bec of that Hogan lost pressure in right foot, hence he teaches the pretorquing of right foot at address. Yes, correct, but i think that didnt get us the wholeer and completer picture. So i think we may be missing the real point on that.

I think the deeper reason Hogan hooked it is bec his upper body turned/rotated first beforeHogan turned/rotated his hips in ds. Why did Hogan do that? Bec his right foot slipped, the lack of weight in right foot disabled hin from turning his hips correctly,hence his upper body went first, hence the hook. Try rotating your hips with no weight in right foot, you cant do it, o rather you can, but not as correctly or as fast as you should, hence your upper body would overtake it before impact. So thats the cause of the hook, and not the loss of leverage in right foot per se. Its the fact that with that loss of leverage at time your hips should turn, Hogan cannot and didnt turn his hips first, hence the hook.

[jak_bot]

WB11, Thanks for your contribution to the forums. I really enjoyed reading your posts.

[williambenjamin11]

Thanks for the compliment jak_bot. Just sharing my thoughts, and giving back to the forums, which in turn helped me consolidate and reconcile most everything I know. But hey, I'm not claiming I figured it out, nor that I'm correct, still searching. In particular, that encyclopedia texarkana of Geoff Jones aka slicefixer, his other posts, and by others who I think figured out Hogan like eightiron, dfw, magnum, etc., all of whom I don't totally know who the hell are Imagine learning from those guys, and for free, without any of them knowing who the hell we are! I think those guys who "said it first" deserves the utmost credits. Bravo to them all!

[TeeAce]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1295318838' post='2904563']
Been itching to tell this, in connection with the Nicklaus lesson above, i think this is the reason why Hogan hooked the ball when his foot slipped in the 55 US Open. Sevam1 says his right foot slipped, and bec of that Hogan lost pressure in right foot, hence he teaches the pretorquing of right foot at address. Yes, correct, but i think that didnt get us the wholeer and completer picture. So i think we may be missing the real point on that.

I think the deeper reason Hogan hooked it is bec his upper body turned/rotated first beforeHogan turned/rotated his hips in ds. Why did Hogan do that? Bec his right foot slipped, the lack of weight in right foot disabled hin from turning his hips correctly,hence his upper body went first, hence the hook. Try rotating your hips with no weight in right foot, you cant do it, o rather you can, but not as correctly or as fast as you should, hence your upper body would overtake it before impact. So thats the cause of the hook, and not the loss of leverage in right foot per se. Its the fact that with that loss of leverage at time your hips should turn, Hogan cannot and didnt turn his hips first, hence the hook.
[/quote]


When right foot slipped, rotation of the body slowed down and that slowed the hands. Result is that club head passes the hands and closes. In other words: In Hogans swing if he was unable to push the handle at impact, result was aways hook caused by closing club face.

[williambenjamin11]

Yes, exactly. Bec there's no hips pulling the upper body assembly, the latter is slower, but ahead of hips. So, shoulders is ahead of hips, arms ahead of shoulders, hands ahead of arms, clubhead ahead of hands. Yeah, the other way around.. You can compensate/correct this during the ds, but in case of Hogan, since he is hitting it as hard as he can, even he wasn't able to correct/catch up since the clubhead/upper body assembly was way ahead.

Coupled with the fact that he may have slid right (I'm just guessing can that be seen in the vid?), the hook is highly unavoidable.

[williambenjamin11]

Also, the clubhead is slightly more out to in than normal (closer to trgetline than if there's hips first), hook is now a sure thing..

[williambenjamin11]

Also, since his hip rotation moves his body to left further, lack of hip rotation means he did not move left further, hence his ball is left of his cog than his usual, hence the hook.

[markponi]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1295341338' post='2905129']
Also, since his hip rotation moves his body to left further, lack of hip rotation means he did not move left further, hence his ball is left of his cog than his usual, hence the hook.
[/quote]


You mentioned that proper movement of the hips will automatically drop the shoulder, arm and hand complex onto the proper plane. I am always about a foot over the plane on the downswing (my right shoulder always moves a little out even though my hips initiate the downswing. Can you describe the proper movement to automatically drop the club head on plane? To me, the linear movement (conscious or not) makes it easier for the right shoulder to drop the club to move down, and not over the plane...

Thanks

MP

[williambenjamin11]

Maybe you are also rotating the upper body assembly at the same time with the hip rotation. Learn to rotate hips first, your upper body assembbly will move like what Hogan is doing with his upper body assembly in that Shell vid. Notice also his right elbow, and the effect on the club, which is exagerrated bec he is preventing movement of upper body assembly. Yeah, that's the elusive pitch elbow..

[williambenjamin11]

By the way MP, the hip rotation if done correctly must also have you do a linear movement. If you just bump the left hip targetwards, your right shoulder will lower, but your right elbow won't be as pitch and your clubhead as lagged. You can intentionally perform the pitch and lag, but timing will be involved.

See Hogan Shell footage. Just copy it again and again and again until you get it. Just don't forget to check first that nobody's looking..

[TML]

wb,
I am finding that I need to consciously think of clearing the hips to the left, immediately after pushing the ground with the right foot. Is that too much conscious thinking? Should I limit it to just the right foot push?

Also, this pushing off with the right foot to start the downswing - do you feel there is a squat move there (feels like your torso compresses down slightly), or is it more just the push forward? hope these questions make sense.

[williambenjamin11]

No pushing in my case, nor did Hogan I believe (post-accident). But when you start the bs pivot, you will feel the weight transferring on your inside right foot, that's what I mean by pressure, but still, your right leg angle does not move away frim target, nor your right hip, no lateral move to right. At the same time, you should feel that weight or pressure on left foot is relieved/removed, but don't intentionally relieve it, just forget about it and let the body and legs move the feet as Hogan said. Then, Hogan just let himself fall targetwards during or near end of bs. Then, when you reach or about to reach the top of bs, and while still falling, you consciously turn the hips only. You will still move lineary, wieght or pressure on right foot will be relieved and transferred to left foot, your right foot/heel will move towards target as Hogan does it, and then you rotate the whole works/upper body assembly as fast as you can. The rotation of hips first and upper body second are very close, almost simultaneous, but not at the same time. My 2 cents.

[TML]

thanks...i always seem to forget the conscious part about turning the hips first.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='JOEGOLFWRX' timestamp='1295132295' post='2899096']
i was only half joking given the last few pages, ...but i think you are going to have to get over the fact that 99.99% of 'user generated content' online is either anonymous or pseudonymous, and the amount of producers of content is dwarfed by the amount of non producing consumers, lurking is the ultimate in anonymity.

it doesn't take 'big balls' to be personally identifiable, its just a choice made by people in different situations all the time for different reasons, don't you log in anonymously now, ...must be a sudden blast of chilly polish air when your pressing the button, rofl.

you've basically said you are only going to discuss your ideas with people who have faith in you, which [s]imo[/s] imAo is a slippery slope for a tgm basher, ..but your choice, cant see you sticking to it, lol.
[/quote]

I have just logged to answer a post in the main Forum and read this one more carefully than before. So, it does take 'big balls' to cease to remain anonymous when one tries to prove something using one's own example knowing how poor an effort it may be !!!
Don't worry about myself, the only slippery slope is when someone must believe in other men's fallacies being unable to think on one's own using one's own mind. I hope you'll understand it some day.

Cheers

P.S. Thanks SuperCharger for understanding and support.

[williambenjamin11]

Dariusz,

Good to see your back. For the record and for what its worth, didn't post my arguments here to just attack or to just plain critique you (except of course the later ones when it went awry, for which I apologize). It just so happen that I agree with 8i in his posts re Hogan. Just want to post what I really think, and not what others may approve or what would be contrary to some.

Can't speak for others, but I support as well your efforts and research and findings. Just don't agree on some of it, respectfully. Nothing personal. Nobodys wrong, nobodys correct. Heck we don't know who is! This is not exact science right? Wish it is though.

Can we start a discussion here again on the hips turning first in ds. I'm a believer of this but I don't claim to have perfected it. Why do you think doing it is a disaster as you posted earlier. Others also I hope will pitch in their thoughts.

Sincerely.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1296358229' post='2936144']
Dariusz,

Good to see your back. For the record and for what its worth, didn't post my arguments here to just attack or to just plain critique you (except of course the later ones when it went awry, for which I apologize). It just so happen that I agree with 8i in his posts re Hogan. Just want to post what I really think, and not what others may approve or what would be contrary to some.

Can't speak for others, but I support as well your efforts and research and findings. Just don't agree on some of it, respectfully. Nothing personal. Nobodys wrong, nobodys correct. Heck we don't know who is! This is not exact science right? Wish it is though.

Can we start a discussion here again on the hips turning first in ds. I'm a believer of this but I don't claim to have perfected it. Why do you think doing it is a disaster as you posted earlier. Others also I hope will pitch in their thoughts.

Sincerely.
[/quote]

WillBen, let's be clear. What assumption are we making about the backswing? Is the guy with his weight on his right foot at the top of his swing? Or is he more on his left side like Hogan was? Hogan was already kinda moving to his left side before he got to the top of his swing. I would say for this type of motion (and this type of motion ONLY) can you actually start your downswing with a turn of the hips to the left. But understand, he is actually moving his hips laterally to the left, so in reality while he may feel he is turning left at the top of the swing he is already in motion laterally..so it's a slide turn in reality. If the guy is on his right side at the top of the swing, then starting the downswing with a hip turn to the left only will be death...there is no way he will get enough weight on his left foot and he will most likely swing over the top and screw himself.

[williambenjamin11]

Both. Pressure/weight is on inside right foot, at the same time his hips are moving laterally aka the counterfall. This happens bec the pressure/weight on left foot is forgotten/disregarded, so your right foot has the weight/pressure but you're falling left thus making your hips move laterally. This is still in bs till end of bs. Now at top/transition, while still pressure/weight on inside right foot top AND still falling/laterally AND left shoulder/hip/ankle already aligned/stacked, your thought/feel is ONLY turning/rotating the hips. This starts the ds. This results to rotation of hips of course but ALSO to a further/additional linear motion (Hogan said the arc in ds is a triffle wider, so its a combi of rotate and lateral). But your thought/intent/conscious is just rotating it. If you just do a linear as many advocate, the rotational part will be missing, thus also missing its results/effects (which are mainly dynamic lag, inside out plane, delayed upper body assembly or upper body assembly only following and not getting ahead of hips).

So I'm not discounting the lateral, it should be there. But what you make sure you do is the rotating/turning of hips as Hogan said and did.

Remember Hogan's problem is the lefts. The timing principle tells us that in order to solve the lefts, you just make the hips ahead of upper body assembly right? Well, Hogan just used this principle. But he did not eliminate the lefts totally pre-accident.

Well post accident, and this is just MHO, he discovered that there should also be lateral in addition to the rotational movement of hips. How did he discover it? Well, post accident, his left side is battered right? His left knee hurts. So when he did his pre-accident swing, it hurts the hell a lot bec he's somewhat intentionally maintaining weight/pressure in left foot during bs. So post-accident, he forgets or lets weight/pressure get off the left foot as he said in 5Lessons (remember in Power Golf he didn't said the "triffle wider arc in ds and didn't mention that rotation of hips "moves the body left", nor did he say "forget about the left heel in bs". He just said turn, so at that time he's keeping weight on left IMO, and hence not counterfalling to left during BS and moving laterally to left during DS).

So post-accident, he relieved pressure/weight on left foot by just letting/allowing the left heel be moved by the body, he lets/allows the pressure/weight to be in right foot (but no lateral to right, if any very minimal), he just turned to right deep. This allows him to counterfall to left during bs. At top/transition and while still falling and left shoulder/hip/ankle alignment achieved, he just thinks rotation of hips, this rotates the hips, moves the body left, transfers pressure/weight to left foot, moves the right shoulder down, also moves clubhead mass down and in thus increasing lag, thus makes a pitchier right elbow, thus makes sure you hit in to out but clubface not closing and kept open, and lastly pulls the upper body assembly hence clubface/head I'd being released naturally when the lag is released at impact by the turning upper body assembly. Whew, hope that made sense to all.

By the way, I believe this is the reason why Hogan's swing looks very different post accident.

There's a very good alternative though. You can eliminate lots of timing if you remove the counterfall during bs by following slicefixer's reverse-k setup, everything else I said above is still applicable.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1296364193' post='2936390']
Both. Pressure/weight is on inside right foot, at the same time his hips are moving laterally aka the counterfall. This happens bec the pressure/weight on left foot is forgotten/disregarded, so your right foot has the weight/pressure but you're falling left thus making your hips move laterally. This is still in bs till end of bs. Now at top/transition, while still pressure/weight on inside right foot top AND still falling/laterally AND left shoulder/hip/ankle already aligned/stacked, your thought/feel is ONLY turning/rotating the hips. This starts the ds. This results to rotation of hips of course but ALSO to a further/additional linear motion (Hogan said the arc in ds is a triffle wider, so its a combi of rotate and lateral). But your thought/intent/conscious is just rotating it. If you just do a linear as many advocate, the rotational part will be missing, thus also missing its results/effects (which are mainly dynamic lag, inside out plane, delayed upper body assembly or upper body assembly only following and not getting ahead of hips).

So I'm not discounting the lateral, it should be there. But what you make sure you do is the rotating/turning of hips as Hogan said and did.

Remember Hogan's problem is the lefts. The timing principle tells us that in order to solve the lefts, you just make the hips ahead of upper body assembly right? Well, Hogan just used this principle. But he did not eliminate the lefts totally pre-accident.

Well post accident, and this is just MHO, he discovered that there should also be lateral in addition to the rotational movement of hips. How did he discover it? Well, post accident, his left side is battered right? His left knee hurts. So when he did his pre-accident swing, it hurts the hell a lot bec he's somewhat intentionally maintaining weight/pressure in left foot during bs. So post-accident, he forgets or lets weight/pressure get off the left foot as he said in 5Lessons (remember in Power Golf he didn't said the "triffle wider arc in ds and didn't mention that rotation of hips "moves the body left", nor did he say "forget about the left heel in bs". He just said turn, so at that time he's keeping weight on left IMO, and hence not counterfalling to left during BS and moving laterally to left during DS).

So post-accident, he relieved pressure/weight on left foot by just letting/allowing the left heel be moved by the body, he lets/allows the pressure/weight to be in right foot (but no lateral to right, if any very minimal), he just turned to right deep. This allows him to counterfall to left during bs. At top/transition and while still falling and left shoulder/hip/ankle alignment achieved, he just thinks rotation of hips, this rotates the hips, moves the body left, transfers pressure/weight to left foot, moves the right shoulder down, also moves clubhead mass down and in thus increasing lag, thus makes a pitchier right elbow, thus makes sure you hit in to out but clubface not closing and kept open, and lastly pulls the upper body assembly hence clubface/head I'd being released naturally when the lag is released at impact by the turning upper body assembly. Whew, hope that made sense to all.

By the way, I believe this is the reason why Hogan's swing looks very different post accident.

There's a very good alternative though. You can eliminate lots of timing if you remove the counterfall during bs by following slicefixer's reverse-k setup, everything else I said above is still applicable.
[/quote]

I only disagree with one thing...he moved into his right leg and off the ball (a bit) even before accident. Trying to find a clip of it.

I think you are right with everything you say....but you massively underestimate how important this sequence of Hogan is...in particular the fall back to the left prior to the completion of the backswing. All the people that move off the ball into the right leg DO NOT have this fall back, and so have to bump their hip laterally BEFORE they can turn it (which I hate and is difficult to do). People who stay on their left side or centered like SnT have absolutely no momentum from moving into their right leg, and so have to do a huge lateral slide of their hips before they can turn it. Again...i'm not a fan of this either.

Very nice post overall! Trying to find this link now of him with driver in 1949 before the accident.

[williambenjamin11]

I actually think the sequence with counterfall (as compared to without it via the reverse-k setup) is better. The momentum of the counterfall (though little) helps the turn of hips left in transition.

As to the the move off the ball, I actually agree there's a bit of it, but a bit only, and it may be mainly off the forward press he does. And to clarify, what I mean by letting go of weight/pressure on left foot and putting wieght/pressure on right foot is just "pressure", no lateral movement at all (at least that should be your intention). Its within yourself, its not visible. You feel you're transferring weight/pressure, but can't be seen by others.

As to those who do not counterfall, that's precisely bec they move off the ball and do an intentional lateral move off the ball. If you transfer weight/pressure to right foot, without moving off the ball, AND you turn your pivot deep--that means your right shoulder/hip towards the back and directly back of your spine/lower spine (actually towards target), that (together with weight/pressure relieved from left foot) will help you counterfall if not force you to. Try it--turn right hip/shoulder immediately towards back and targetwards, especially the right hip. If you don't fall, your preventing it with the left foot (so don't ).

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1296389524' post='2936701']
I actually think the sequence with counterfall (as compared to without it via the reverse-k setup) is better. The momentum of the counterfall (though little) helps the turn of hips left in transition.

As to the the move off the ball, I actually agree there's a bit of it, but a bit only, and it may be mainly off the forward press he does. And to clarify, what I mean by letting go of weight/pressure on left foot and putting wieght/pressure on right foot is just "pressure", no lateral movement at all (at least that should be your intention). Its within yourself, its not visible. You feel you're transferring weight/pressure, but can't be seen by others.

As to those who do not counterfall, that's precisely bec they move off the ball and do an intentional lateral move off the ball. If you transfer weight/pressure to right foot, without moving off the ball, AND you turn your pivot deep--that means your right shoulder/hip towards the back and directly back of your spine/lower spine (actually towards target), that (together with weight/pressure relieved from left foot) will help you counterfall if not force you to. Try it--turn right hip/shoulder immediately towards back and targetwards, especially the right hip. If you don't fall, your preventing it with the left foot (so don't ).
[/quote]

Haha, I agree with everything you said. Hogan does move off the ball though, small as it might be. I think it helped his timing and sequencing. For us mortals though, staying centered but feeling pressure in the right leg and creating that rythm and momentum to then move to the left and smash the ball is critical. It's much easier to time.

I think we've had this discussion about the backswing turn creating the counterfall. Certainly for us who love Hogan we have made it second nature. It doesn't happen automatically...but I think it's easy enough to learn it (we are both examples of it). Funny thing though...If you have a big turn of more than 90 degrees, I think it encourages the fall back. But a guy like Charlie Wi (SnT guy) who has a very minimal turn of 90 degrees, a small turn won't 'force' you to fall back. Interesting right? I turn my shoulders 115 or so degrees, and I definitely say the fall back happens when I go more than 100 degrees. I love it!

Keep up the good work sir!

[williambenjamin11]

A suggestion to help make the counterfall easier/naturally, and have a theory also why others don't make it easier/natural/automatic: at start of bs or takeaway, some golfers move off the ball right? That move moves their cog exactly on top of the right hip/leg joint. That makes them in balance, with the right leg joint as sort of the balancing lever/fulcrum of the whole body. If they turn "over" their right side, they won't counterfall targetwards bec the turning "over" makes the cog still on top of right hip/leg joint, hence remains aligned or on top of each other vertically, hence still maintaining the balance, hence no counterfall. However, if you turn "deep", meaning turn your right hip immediatly/directly towards the back and actually getting the cog nearer the target, this means the cog is no longer vertically aligned with the right hip/leg joint. This loss of vertical alignment of cog with the right hip/leg joint (which is now tilted towards the target) means balance is lost, hence will make you fall targetwards as a result/naturally/automatically. Now note that this applies to those who relieved the pressure/weight on left foot in bs, otherwise they won't counterfall bec the left foot pressure will maintain the cog or maintain the balance or "catch" the fall, hence no counterfall.

So there, I suggest you relieve pressure on left foot, put pressure on inside of right foot, AND then just turn "DEEP" to cause that misalignment/imbalance. If you don't counterfall, maybe you're golfing in another planet

[tm22721]

My best swings occur when I keep the upper body closed a little longer in transition before firing the hips. What Hogan calls live tension. What Greg McHatton calls [url="http://www.youtube.com/user/Gothamgolfblog#p/u/11/s5bfIjfEb2s"]Torque[/url].

[moehogan]

[quote name='tm22721' timestamp='1296412778' post='2937402']
My best swings occur when I keep the upper body closed a little longer in transition before firing the hips. What Hogan calls live tension. What Greg McHatton calls [url="http://www.youtube.com/user/Gothamgolfblog#p/u/11/s5bfIjfEb2s"]Torque[/url].
[/quote]
+1 ... one of my favorite vids.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1296358229' post='2936144']
Dariusz,

Good to see your back. For the record and for what its worth, didn't post my arguments here to just attack or to just plain critique you (except of course the later ones when it went awry, for which I apologize). It just so happen that I agree with 8i in his posts re Hogan. Just want to post what I really think, and not what others may approve or what would be contrary to some.

Can't speak for others, but I support as well your efforts and research and findings. Just don't agree on some of it, respectfully. Nothing personal. Nobodys wrong, nobodys correct. Heck we don't know who is! This is not exact science right? Wish it is though.

Can we start a discussion here again on the hips turning first in ds. I'm a believer of this but I don't claim to have perfected it. Why do you think doing it is a disaster as you posted earlier. Others also I hope will pitch in their thoughts.

Sincerely.
[/quote]

I am not "back". I have never gone out, I just decided not to participate freely in discussions unless being asked to with specific questions concerning my researches or just clarifying the reality of situations (like in my two posts of last week).

Have a good time in further discussions. Apologies accdepted as well. Thank you.

Cheers

[williambenjamin11]

Dariusz, good to know you'll be posting again. Why do you think turning the hips first in ds is a disaster as you posted much earlier? Can you explain further?

[williambenjamin11]

moehogan

Today, 02:52 AM

?tm22721, on 31 January 2011 - 02:39 AM, said:

My best swings occur when I keep the upper body closed a little longer in transition before firing the hips. What Hogan calls live tension. What Greg McHatton calls Torque.


+1 ... one of my favorite vids.



Yeah, +2. You must turn "deep" to make the firing of hips work.