MAP Pricing(Ping/TM/Titleist/Etc)

[archer]

Does your call for a boycott include all of the OEMs that engage in the exact same practices?

Does it include OEMs, particularly one headquartered in Carlsbad, that destroy excess inventory rather than allow it to be discounted for consumers? Do you know of any OEM that manufacutres quality equipment that does not engage in these practices? If you're going to boycott these companies, do you have a suggestion as to where I should send my business?

[sergizmo]

With regards to their MAP pricing and military discounts, I believe Ping doesn't have the option of selective discounts. By law, the policy must be applied with no exceptions, or they have to drop it altogether. I'm sure Arkstorm knows more about this and can clarify.

 

If you are going to give discounts to military personnel, what about firemen and police officers as well? They risk their lives to keep us safe. What about teachers who educate your children and are underpaid, should they get the discount too?

 

Even if Ping could make an exception (under law I don't think they can), it's not their fault that military personnel are underpaid. That fault lies with the government and it's policies. Instead of complaining about no discounts, why don't you people complain to Congress men/women about paying these people a decent salary in the first place.

 

Ping is not anti-military. A large part of Karsten Manufacturing is in defence parts. Why would they be?

[Boonie]

With regards to their MAP pricing and military discounts, I believe Ping doesn't have the option of selective discounts. By law, the policy must be applied with no exceptions, or they have to drop it altogether. I'm sure Arkstorm knows more about this and can clarify.

 

If you are going to give discounts to military personnel, what about firemen and police officers as well? They risk their lives to keep us safe. What about teachers who educate your children and are underpaid, should they get the discount too?

 

Even if Ping could make an exception (under law I don't think they can), it's not their fault that military personnel are underpaid. That fault lies with the government and it's policies. Instead of complaining about no discounts, why don't you people complain to Congress men/women about paying these people a decent salary in the first place.

 

Ping is not anti-military. A large part of Karsten Manufacturing is in defence parts. Why would they be?

 

Well said, this is a business decision by Ping to protect the 'percieved value' of their brand. The relative merits of that decision have been well argued here from both sides, but I'm sure it's not a decision they take lightly. Trying to bring military emotion into it is unfair, as a unilateral policy is exactly that, unilateral.

 

Thanks for the effort you guys have made to give a balanced view of this argument, it's been very interesting.

 

I have just bought a full set of Ping irons, bag and putter for the first time in my life. This issue doesn't make me regret doing that, and I love the clubs.

 

However, I can see why certain people would be motivated to avoid Ping. They would certainly be aware that such a policy would create some problems and will have taken it into account. It will be interesting to see if it stays in place long term.

[rspickard]

I could not help but notice the last two replys came from citzens of Canada and Australia. The passion involved in the treatment and respect that the military personnel have EARNED could not easily be understood by non US citizens.

 

I just spent money to be fitted for a new Rapture Driver last week out of respect for my fellow active and non ative duty military members I will not be making that purchase.

 

Semper Fi

[Gxgolfer]

I could not help but notice the last two replys came from citzens of Canada and Australia. The passion involved in the treatment and respect that the military personnel have EARNED could not easily be understood by non US citizens.

 

I just spent money to be fitted for a new Rapture Driver last week out of respect for my fellow active and non ative duty military members I will not be making that purchase.

 

Semper Fi

 

Email from Ping:

 

"As someone who expressed concern over our relationship with the military, we wanted to make sure you are aware of PING’s “Thank You Troops” rebate program.

 

 

 

We’re in the process of finalizing the details of the program, but we can share this with you:

 

 

 

-The program applies to current PING equipment, including PING G5 and Rapture products. It is effective as of October 1, 2006.

 

 

 

-Active duty and Active Reserve members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and National Guard are eligible for the rebates.

 

 

 

-Cash rebate amounts will vary by product type and go directly into the pocket of the eligible military member. For example, PING will provide an $80 rebate on a set of 8 PING irons. PING will offer a $30 rebate on a PING driver.

 

 

 

The final details will be released in the next few weeks. In the meantime, PING executives will be meeting with military personnel to determine the best way to communicate the program to our troops.

 

 

 

Thank you again for taking the time to share your concerns with us.

 

 

 

Sincerely,"

[arkstorm]

Does your call for a boycott include all of the OEMs that engage in the exact same practices?

Does it include OEMs, particularly one headquartered in Carlsbad, that destroy excess inventory rather than allow it to be discounted for consumers? Do you know of any OEM that manufacutres quality equipment that does not engage in these practices? If you're going to boycott these companies, do you have a suggestion as to where I should send my business?

 

My call for a boycott of Ping is not because they are the only golf company with a price maintenance policy, but because of the draconian way in which they enforce it.

 

 

With regards to their MAP pricing and military discounts, I believe Ping doesn't have the option of selective discounts. By law, the policy must be applied with no exceptions, or they have to drop it altogether. I'm sure Arkstorm knows more about this and can clarify.

 

If you are going to give discounts to military personnel, what about firemen and police officers as well? They risk their lives to keep us safe. What about teachers who educate your children and are underpaid, should they get the discount too?

 

Even if Ping could make an exception (under law I don't think they can), it's not their fault that military personnel are underpaid. That fault lies with the government and it's policies. Instead of complaining about no discounts, why don't you people complain to Congress men/women about paying these people a decent salary in the first place.

 

Ping is not anti-military. A large part of Karsten Manufacturing is in defence parts. Why would they be?

 

While its true that they can't state any exceptions, it is at their discretion how to enforce the policy. The policy doesn't cross any line if they quietly choose to not pull an account that gave a military discount.

[taylormadefan]

Email from Ping:

 

"As someone who expressed concern over our relationship with the military, we wanted to make sure you are aware of PING’s “Thank You Troops” rebate program.

We’re in the process of finalizing the details of the program, but we can share this with you:

-The program applies to current PING equipment, including PING G5 and Rapture products. It is effective as of October 1, 2006.

-Active duty and Active Reserve members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and National Guard are eligible for the rebates.

-Cash rebate amounts will vary by product type and go directly into the pocket of the eligible military member. For example, PING will provide an $80 rebate on a set of 8 PING irons. PING will offer a $30 rebate on a PING driver.

The final details will be released in the next few weeks. In the meantime, PING executives will be meeting with military personnel to determine the best way to communicate the program to our troops.

Thank you again for taking the time to share your concerns with us.

Sincerely,"

 

Proactive decision making, can't blame them for that. They've found a way to maintain the terms of their contracts with retailers while still providing a 10% discount for the men and women in uniform, can't ask too much more than that.

[nearfall152]

Email from Ping:

 

"As someone who expressed concern over our relationship with the military, we wanted to make sure you are aware of PING’s “Thank You Troops” rebate program.

We’re in the process of finalizing the details of the program, but we can share this with you:

-The program applies to current PING equipment, including PING G5 and Rapture products. It is effective as of October 1, 2006.

-Active duty and Active Reserve members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and National Guard are eligible for the rebates.

-Cash rebate amounts will vary by product type and go directly into the pocket of the eligible military member. For example, PING will provide an $80 rebate on a set of 8 PING irons. PING will offer a $30 rebate on a PING driver.

The final details will be released in the next few weeks. In the meantime, PING executives will be meeting with military personnel to determine the best way to communicate the program to our troops.

Thank you again for taking the time to share your concerns with us.

Sincerely,"

 

Proactive decision making, can't blame them for that. They've found a way to maintain the terms of their contracts with retailers while still providing a 10% discount for the men and women in uniform, can't ask too much more than that.

 

 

I guess PING isn't the boogeyman afterall.

[Golfdog]

I read most, but not all, of the posts in this thread, and would like to point out a couple things. MAP stands for minimum advertised price. It states the minimum price that a retailer can advertise for each item in a manufacturer's product line. This protects the brand's image in the marketplace. MAP shouldn't dictate what a product sells for. MAP seems reasonable to me. Dictating exactly what an item can sell for in a retailer's store strike me as a restraint of trade.

 

I too am extremely annoyed by the draconian manner in which Ping has been pulling accounts. Ping sucks, and won't be seeing any of my business ever again.

 

BTW, Lechmere was an excellent, profitable store. They went out of business when Montgomery Ward bought them, then took Lechmere down with them when MW went out of business.

[Gxgolfer]

This is not a nationalist/socialist issue. It could have been a discount for education or any minority group. This is about a global market policy and the way its being enforced.

 

Speaking of which, I don't see why they don't follow the lead of what companies like Dell and Apple do. Have different price points for those markets. All you would have to do is show your ID. Apple has a Govt/Military, Educational and Retail price list.

[archer]

First, their policies were "Nazi-esque"; now, they are "draconian." When I went to school, a Nazi was someone who believed in committing genocide against certain racial, religious, and sexually oriented groups. Do you think you might be overdoing these adjectives?

 

Other OEMs use MAP, secret shoppers, and destroy merchandise that does not sell rather than offer customers a discount (Ping does not engage in this practice, by the way), yet only Ping is "draconian" in your view. Does that not strike you as odd?

 

Here is a different take. You can find an interesting post over on Shackelford's blog. According to this post, which makes sense to me, Ping was willing to look the other way over discounts to military customers by these two accounts until word got out that they were giving the discount to anyone who walked in and claimed to be in the military. When Ping sent in a shopper, he claimed to be in the military and they gave him the discount without asking for proof. Ping called B.S. on the two stores, appropriately in my view, and canceled their accounts. The two store owners, realizing that the only chance to create some heat for Ping was to go to the press and cry "military discount", did exactly that.

 

Due to the negative press, Ping is now the ONLY golf company in the world to offer a military discount that comes out of their pockets, as opposed to the retailer's pocket. As a military vet, I applaud them for that move and I particularly applaud them for slapping down the two retailers and their phoney military discounts. Hopefully, their accounts will remain cancelled.

[Boonie]

I could not help but notice the last two replys came from citzens of Canada and Australia. The passion involved in the treatment and respect that the military personnel have EARNED could not easily be understood by non US citizens.

 

Semper Fi

 

The 4,500 Aussie troops currently serving overseas (1,400 in Iraq) and the families of the 102,000 Aussies that have died in duty will be confused. :(

 

Anyhow....

 

Good on Ping for what they are doing with their rebate program.

 

:)

[Gxgolfer]

Great info.

 

I still think it would be much better to offer 3 different prices that are MAP. One for Pros/Educational, Military/Gov, and Retail General Public.

 

All are easily proveable by presenting a picture ID that can be photocopied if needed.

 

First, their policies were "Nazi-esque"; now, they are "draconian." When I went to school, a Nazi was someone who believed in committing genocide against certain racial, religious, and sexually oriented groups. Do you think you might be overdoing these adjectives?

 

Other OEMs use MAP, secret shoppers, and destroy merchandise that does not sell rather than offer customers a discount (Ping does not engage in this practice, by the way), yet only Ping is "draconian" in your view. Does that not strike you as odd?

 

Here is a different take. You can find an interesting post over on Shackelford's blog. According to this post, which makes sense to me, Ping was willing to look the other way over discounts to military customers by these two accounts until word got out that they were giving the discount to anyone who walked in and claimed to be in the military. When Ping sent in a shopper, he claimed to be in the military and they gave him the discount without asking for proof. Ping called B.S. on the two stores, appropriately in my view, and canceled their accounts. The two store owners, realizing that the only chance to create some heat for Ping was to go to the press and cry "military discount", did exactly that.

 

Due to the negative press, Ping is now the ONLY golf company in the world to offer a military discount that comes out of their pockets, as opposed to the retailer's pocket. As a military vet, I applaud them for that move and I particularly applaud them for slapping down the two retailers and their phoney military discounts. Hopefully, their accounts will remain cancelled.

[rspickard]

I was obviously remiss in in my post, I have the utmost respect for the members of the Australian military. Having served with Australian units I can say they have earned my appreciation and they should be included in any program Ping stands up. I am concerned that a individual shop owner that wants to show his appreciation to members of the military still (from what I have read) cannot discount the products.

 

I apologize if I slighted any of the Aussies,

 

G-day

[DOUGLY]

I could not help but notice the last two replys came from citzens of Canada and Australia. The passion involved in the treatment and respect that the military personnel have EARNED could not easily be understood by non US citizens.

 

 

 

Semper Fi

 

 

This is funny. Sad, but funny too.

:(

[bigkidneys]

It appears as though Ping is trying to save face with some last minute PR! Not going to do it with me. Yes, there is a reason why they also make defense parts. Its called entrepeneurship. They don't do it because they are patriotic, they do it to make money like anything else.

[JTAmp32]

Interesting topic. One thing to keep in mind is that Ping is owned & operated by Karsten Manufacturing. Ping is not the main cash cow for Karsten in that they have multi-billion dollar governmental contracts w/ NASA, the US Military, etc... Also, when it comes to taking a legal stand against coporations w/ deep pockets just look up the story of Las Vegas Discount Golf & Tennis. LVDG & T was a large retailer in the early 90's that went through a lengthy legal war w/ Callaway & Ping over MAP issues. The case went on for years and although LVDG & T won the settlement they went bankrupt in the process. The company proved a point but it basically cost them everything and nothing has really changed w/ MAP in the golf business.

[ryanpgm]

One of the beautiful things about being in a free country, no matter where it is, is the right to choose. There are far more equipment manufacturers out there, if PING has left a bad taste in your mouth with their recent practices, then don't buy them. Let's not forget that the real people who are suffering in this scenario are the golf shops who have lost their accouts for supporting our military personnel. I do not agree with PING's pricing techniques, however their strides to make improvements and ditch this PR nightmare that has insued is admirable.

[catgolfer]

no more Ping for me, bye-bye Anser putter, G5 woods, G2 irons... going to get fitted for a set of 755 irons and 905R driver!

[tbowles411]

One of the beautiful things about being in a free country, no matter where it is, is the right to choose. There are far more equipment manufacturers out there, if PING has left a bad taste in your mouth with their recent practices, then don't buy them. Let's not forget that the real people who are suffering in this scenario are the golf shops who have lost their accouts for supporting our military personnel. I do not agree with PING's pricing techniques, however their strides to make improvements and ditch this PR nightmare that has insued is admirable.

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but Ping is off the mark here. This is a PR nightmare for them. They definately needed to save face and the Augusta Chronicle is all over them for it. They are seriously going to take a black eye for this. I found this article on their site dated 6 Oct...

------

Not out of the sand trap yet

 

Augusta Chronicle Editorial Staff

 

Karsten Manufacturing Corp., maker of Ping golf equipment, is trying gamely to undo a public relations disaster. The Arizona-based firm kept the ball in the fairway, but it barely made it past the women's tee. Ping golf clubs are well-made and popular, but company officials' Caddyshack-type swing at retailers who offered a 10 percent discount to military personnel drove the ball into the drink.

 

Two of those retailers - Bonaventure Discount Golf and the Gordon Lakes golf shop at Fort Gordon - are in our area. Ping canceled their accounts because the military discounts violated the company's apparently sacred pricing policy.

 

Unbelievably, no one thought through the implications of this stubborn stand. Predictably, the affront to the nation's military turned into a public-relations nightmare for Ping.

 

Typical were the reactions of Bonaventure owner L.D. Waters, himself a World War II and Korean War veteran, and Bill Fumai, the Fort Gordon golf pro. They both said "good riddance" to Ping and began selling off the merchandise at cost or a little above.

 

They show no interest in coming back either, although Ping is now scrambling to make amends by offering both active-duty and reserve military members a mail-in rebate program. Not every particular has been worked out yet, say Ping officials, but the rebate would come to about $80 - or a little over 10 percent - on a set of eight irons retailing at about $750.

 

The problem with that is mail-in rebates are a pain to customers - especially to military people who are busier than most. Computer-related rebates are the most popular and widespread, yet according to one prominent research firm, only about 40 percent of consumers bother with them - and of those, half experience problems collecting on the rebate, and many don't receive it at all.

 

If the Ping people think their rebate program is anything better than a triple-bogey, then they're still not thinking through the implications of their decision. They're making military golfers jump through hoops to get their rebate when it would be clean and simple to just give it to them when they buy at the store.

Besides, having stricken 60-plus military golf courses from their accounts, Ping has lost access to many military buyers they seek to win back. A mail-in rebate program is off the green and into the bunker. Military customers deserve a mulligan from Ping, but they're not getting it.

[Qualitydaydream]

Its only sad in the method they cancel the account and the no second chance policy.

 

how can a shop get back at them?

 

1. Open a Ping account

2. Place a large order

3. Close the account

4. Sell it off for cost and advertise wholesale cost. ( if you havent signed an NDA )

 

its their company so they can do as they wish, only a tiny percent of golfers will know about this anyway. its us forum addicts that have passion to rant on about this stuff.

 

Great topic and many great opinions here!