Bobby Grace Scottsdale KBI?

[Slunkhead]

I'm currently working on buying up some older PING putters, specifically BeCU and BeNi ansers. I'm not looking to actually collect them so much as game them, if that makes any difference. I currently game an old MgBronze Anser and love it, but I wanna try the BeCu and BeNi because I hear they feel better. While looking around the bay, I see a lot of Bobby Grace remakes of Scottsdale ansers, in Bronze, BeNi and BeCu. Up until the last few days, I've never heard of these. I've googled and searched the forum, and don't see much about them. I know they were made in the 1990s, but that's about it. Anyone know anything about these they can share, or has anyone actually played one? Are these made in conjunction with PING, or did Grace makes them independently? Thanks in advance.

 

 

[bma725]

Lots to cover...

For starters, to understand the KBI Scottsdale line you have to understand tBobby Grace's history. We know him as a putter maker now, but he really made his name in the golf business as being the world's foremost authority on rare Ping clubs. He literally wrote the book on how to be a Ping collector 20 years ago, and that book is still the bible for anyone looking to collect vintage Pings. Because of his love for Pings when he started becoming more successful as a putter maker, he decided that he wanted to honor Ping in some way and his KBI line was how he did that.

When talking about the KBI line, people tend to lump in a few different but very similar lines of putters that Bobby made during that era....
[list]
[*][i]KBI Scottsdale[/i] - Cast of MnBr or BeCu, with a skim milled face. Mass production for Bobby's company prior to his signing with Cobra Golf.
[*][i]KBI 96[/i] - Same shape as the KBI Scottsdale but with no sound slot and a white HSM insert.
[*][i]KBI 1st Win Commemorative Edition[/i] - Made to commemorate the first PGA Tour win for the KBI line. 300 in total, all out of MnBr. Essentially the same as the retail KBI Scottsdale head but with an engraved Bobby Grace signature on the sole and stamping on the face to indicate the limited run.
[*][i]NGK Berylco Limited Edition[/i] - Each year from 1994-96 Bobby made 50 Scottsdale putters out of MnBr, BeCu and BeNi as gifts for NGK Metals Company employees to thank them for their help over the years. They were cast, then hand ground and hand milled to achieve the look he wanted. Different engraving from the retail line indicating only the year, model number and limited edition status. Also came with a special Apollo putter shaft that was selected to match that head.
[*][i]Sole Stamp[/i] - No one is quite sure on the numbers, but every once and awhile you'll see a MnBr head pop up that has Bobby's name engraved on the sole. Essentially the same as the 1st win model but without the 1st win engraving. Rumor was they were going to be next edition of the KBI but the line was scrapped when he signed with Cobra.
[*][i]No Slot[/i] - Very limited quantities made in MnBr. Same head shape as the KBI Scottsdale but without the sound slot. Never released to the retail market, mostly in the hands of collectors in Japan.
[*][i]Handmades[/i]. Details are sketchy at best, but they exist. Rougher shape than the larger production lines, hand ground from a cast head by NGK, completely hand stamped. Only a few known to exist, most were made for tour players prior to the production line starting and are now in the hands of collectors.
[/list]

That pretty much covers everything. There's some other rumored ones out there, some additional NGK models that have different stamping etc, but information on those is very hard to come by.

In general what you're seeing on Ebay right now is either from the KBI Scottsdale retail line or one of the NGK Berylco models. Looks like one of the big time collectors decided to dump their inventory as there have been more available for sale in the last two weeks than we usually see over the course of an entire year.

[pitbull808]

[quote name='bma725' timestamp='1303703297' post='3183116']
In general what you're seeing on Ebay right now is either from the KBI Scottsdale retail line or one of the NGK Berylco models. Looks like one of the big time collectors decided to dump their inventory as there have been more available for sale in the last two weeks than we usually see over the course of an entire year.
[/quote]


If the one's on ebay are the one's I'm thinking of..."big time collectors" is an understatement. The guy I know of has been dumping about 50 plus BG's and Ping's every week. KBI's, JAS putters, you name it. Apparently he has a storage locker with over 50,000 putters inside and finally has told himself it's time to get rid of some. Every week I get a call to see what he's brought in just in case something catches my eye. It's been pure hell trying to contain myself.

[pcourtney]

[color=#282828]I wish he was still dumping them on ebay, I am on the lookout for KBI 96 for a friend at the moment, or anything else KBI[/color]

[pcourtney]

[list]
[*][i]Sole Stamp[/i] - No one is quite sure on the numbers, but every once and awhile you'll see a MnBr head pop up that has Bobby's name engraved on the sole. Essentially the same as the 1st win model but without the 1st win engraving. Rumor was they were going to be next edition of the KBI but the line was scrapped when he signed with Cobra.[/quote]
[/list]
I have one of these beautiful simple putters in mint condition, the Sole Stamp is all in capitals ( not a signature like on the 1st Win) and simply says

BOBBY GRACE
SCOTTSDALE KBI

also the topline is thicker than the 1st win model, the face and I think I was told that only 500 or so were made or in production before the Cobra deal kicked in around 97

[Hairpie]

> @bma725 said:

> Lots to cover...

>

>

>

> For starters, to understand the KBI Scottsdale line you have to understand tBobby Grace's history. We know him as a putter maker now, but he really made his name in the golf business as being the world's foremost authority on rare Ping clubs. He literally wrote the book on how to be a Ping collector 20 years ago, and that book is still the bible for anyone looking to collect vintage Pings. Because of his love for Pings when he started becoming more successful as a putter maker, he decided that he wanted to honor Ping in some way and his KBI line was how he did that.

>

>

>

> When talking about the KBI line, people tend to lump in a few different but very similar lines of putters that Bobby made during that era....

>

> * KBI Scottsdale - Cast of MnBr or BeCu, with a skim milled face. Mass production for Bobby's company prior to his signing with Cobra Golf.

>

> * KBI 96 - Same shape as the KBI Scottsdale but with no sound slot and a white HSM insert.

>

> * KBI 1st Win Commemorative Edition - Made to commemorate the first PGA Tour win for the KBI line. 300 in total, all out of MnBr. Essentially the same as the retail KBI Scottsdale head but with an engraved Bobby Grace signature on the sole and stamping on the face to indicate the limited run.

>

> * NGK Berylco Limited Edition - Each year from 1994-96 Bobby made 50 Scottsdale putters out of MnBr, BeCu and BeNi as gifts for NGK Metals Company employees to thank them for their help over the years. They were cast, then hand ground and hand milled to achieve the look he wanted. Different engraving from the retail line indicating only the year, model number and limited edition status. Also came with a special Apollo putter shaft that was selected to match that head.

>

> * Sole Stamp - No one is quite sure on the numbers, but every once and awhile you'll see a MnBr head pop up that has Bobby's name engraved on the sole. Essentially the same as the 1st win model but without the 1st win engraving. Rumor was they were going to be next edition of the KBI but the line was scrapped when he signed with Cobra.

>

> * No Slot - Very limited quantities made in MnBr. Same head shape as the KBI Scottsdale but without the sound slot. Never released to the retail market, mostly in the hands of collectors in Japan.

>

> * Handmades. Details are sketchy at best, but they exist. Rougher shape than the larger production lines, hand ground from a cast head by NGK, completely hand stamped. Only a few known to exist, most were made for tour players prior to the production line starting and are now in the hands of collectors.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> That pretty much covers everything. There's some other rumored ones out there, some additional NGK models that have different stamping etc, but information on those is very hard to come by.

>

>

>

> In general what you're seeing on Ebay right now is either from the KBI Scottsdale retail line or one of the NGK Berylco models. Looks like one of the big time collectors decided to dump their inventory as there have been more available for sale in the last two weeks than we usually see over the course of an entire year.

 

I know this is a really old thread but does anyone know the headweight on these perchance?

[Tom Friedmann]

I recently bought a BG KBI SCOTTSDALE putter at a yard sale for $5.00. It has a Cameron grip. Most of the data I have seen on the Scottsdales are BeCu. Mine is stamped/engraved BeNi, which I think is a nickel alloy instead of copper. Any ideas 9f that pedigree? I'm wondering about it's worth.

 

Thanks.

[wallymann]

this thread seems like a good reference for grace KBI putter info, so i thought i'd add some empirical data.

 

just pulled the head off my slotted grace KBI anser in BeCu and the weight is...drum roll...332.0g.

 

this compares favorably with the OG MnBronze slotted ansers that come in ~302g or thereabouts.

 

i'm in the process of re-shafting and lengthening to 35"...hoping to get to a D5.  #fingerscrossed

Edited December 9, 2021 by wallymann

[Mustard_Tiger]

55 minutes ago, wallymann said:

this thread seems like a good reference for grace KBI putter info, so i thought i'd add some empirical data.

 

just pulled the head off my slotted grace KBI anser in BeCu and the weight is...drum roll...332.0g.

 

this compares favorably with the OG MnBronze slotted ansers that come in ~302g or thereabouts.

 

i'm in the process of re-shafting and lengthening to 35"...hoping to get to a D5.  #fingerscrossed

 

 

With a 65 gram grip it should be right at D5.

 

60 gram grip would be D6. 70 gram grip would be D4.

[Motoboss]

Checking out the history of my Bobby Grace McGregor putter I ran across this

 

http://www.bobbygraceputters.com/our-story.php 

[wallymann]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:02 PM, Mustard_Tiger said:

 

 

With a 65 gram grip it should be right at D5.

 

60 gram grip would be D6. 70 gram grip would be D4.

 

grip was a little on the light side @ 58g...so ended up with D6...a couple grams back-weight and i'm right at D5!  #chuffed

Edited December 11, 2021 by wallymann

[Chip2445]

I have one of the KBI putters from the 70s.  It’s a BeNi and I understand there were only 50 made.  I’m wondering what it’s worth?

 

 

 

 

[wallymann]

On 12/2/2023 at 4:20 PM, Chip2445 said:

I have one of the KBI putters from the 70s.  It’s a BeNi and I understand there were only 50 made.  I’m wondering what it’s worth?

 

 

 

 

 

BeCu KBI ansers are like $250 - $350...i'd imagine BeNi are north of that given the rarity.  of course, you need a buyer willing to pay!

Edited December 6, 2023 by wallymann

[RobotDoctor]

On 12/6/2023 at 10:50 AM, wallymann said:

 

BeCu KBI ansers are like $250 - $350...i'd imagine BeNi are north of that given the rarity.  of course, you need a buyer willing to pay!

@Chip2445's KBI Anser is not a reissue like the one you're referring to.  This one is a highly sought after collector's item.  Condition will determine what the worth is.  I would suggest contacting Bobby Grace regarding the value.  It will be way north of $250/$350.

[FireRockAndy]

14 hours ago, RobotDoctor said:

@Chip2445's KBI Anser is not a reissue like the one you're referring to.  This one is a highly sought after collector's item.  Condition will determine what the worth is.  I would suggest contacting Bobby Grace regarding the value.  It will be way north of $250/$350.

 

 Are you sure about that? There are 4 on eBay right now, 2 BeNi, 1 BeCu and 1 MgBr -- all $250 or less w/ offers accepted. I don't think the market for knockoff Ansers is as strong as you've suggested or it has recently cratered. 

[RobotDoctor]

7 hours ago, FireRockAndy said:

 

 Are you sure about that? There are 4 on eBay right now, 2 BeNi, 1 BeCu and 1 MgBr -- all $250 or less w/ offers accepted. I don't think the market for knockoff Ansers is as strong as you've suggested or it has recently cratered. 

Yes, I’m sure about this.  I’m not talking about any reproduction rendition of the Ping Kawecki Berylco Industries Anser.  I’m talking about the original 1970s Ping KBI run that was made for KBI employees and VIPs.  If it is a Bobby Grace KBI Anser made in the mid 90s then the $250-$350 is more in line.  My initial comment was regarding a Ping KBI Anser, not the Bobby Grace model.  That said Bobby’s version of both the BeNi and BeCu were outstanding and as close to the original Pings as anyone made, albeit the milled face. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by RobotDoctor

[FireRockAndy]

23 hours ago, RobotDoctor said:

Yes, I’m sure about this.  I’m not talking about any reproduction rendition of the Ping Kawecki Berylco Industries Anser.  I’m talking about the original 1970s Ping KBI run that was made for KBI employees and VIPs.  If it is a Bobby Grace KBI Anser made in the mid 90s then the $250-$350 is more in line.  My initial comment was regarding a Ping KBI Anser, not the Bobby Grace model.  That said Bobby’s version of both the BeNi and BeCu were outstanding and as close to the original Pings as anyone made, albeit the milled face. 

 

Apologies, I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the KBI Grace knockoffs being super valuable, which they are certainly not. The real-deal PING KBI Ansers rarely come up on eBay (I look constantly) and are always listed for BIG money when they appear. Definitely a grail-tier acquisition for an Anser nerd (me).

[Chip2445]

[Chip2445]

Here are some photos

[FireRockAndy]

14 hours ago, Chip2445 said:

 

Dear god, it looks NOS! If you ever want to sell that thing, please message me immediately. What a beauty.