Mac O'Grady's Swing ... what can we learn?

[JD3]

Thought this would be a good topic for discussion since he'll never publish anything.

 

At first I thought he looked like he was trying to be too "careful." But the more I watched the more it grew on me, kind of like Hogan both have a "magnetic" quality (although I never thought he looked careful.) Has an "energy efficient" feel as in max output per given input, looks easy on the body too.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmZFvkGFM4U&feature=related

 

To get started, here's one instructor's analysis

 

[tembolo1284]

Interesting topic! Curious to read other peoples' opinions.

[Boise59]

I look at his swing a lot on You Tube even though I am not remotely built like him. Great tempo and ease of movement.

Saw Bennett/Plummer give a clinic last week and they claim that a lot of their stuff came from Mac. In the video you have of Mac looking at the front view, at the top of the backswing I see the chin over the right thigh with the right knee flexed, definitely not S&T characteristics.

Wish he would write a book, I would like to hear his side of the story.

[broth518]

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Here is another caddie view

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DTL

[tembolo1284]

I should mention I saw him play a senior tour event out in California a few years back. His stock shot was a mid/high trajectory fade. Moved about a yard or two at most. Was cool to see. He just couldn't make any putts and he flubbed 2 chips.

Great ball flight though. If only...

[JD3]

If I remember correctly he built his MORAD model using Snead and then Hogan as the player prototypes, and TGM as the framework.

[broth518]

About M.O.R.A.D.

The M.O.R.A.D. investigation of the golf swing began in March 1984. It was researched and funded by Mr. Mac O'Grady. M.O.R.A.D. explains and evaluates the sequence of movements of Sam Snead, Ben Hogan, Jack Nicklaus and many other players. The M.O.R.A.D. model is about 80% Sam Snead and 20% Ben Hogan, the short game models are based on Seve Ballesteros and Jack Nicklaus for putting. M.O.R.A.D.'s objective was simple to independently examine the biomechanics of the golf swing which governs the golf balls direction,trajectory and distance. M.O.R.A.D stands for mankind's objective research and development.

this is from: moradgolfgeorgehunt.com

[farmer]

Listening to DeFrancesco, Mac has an odd set-up which causes him to make compensations during the swing. So, not a great set-up or swing, certainly not anything to be copied. How did he become the deity of a particular swing cult?

[mvmac]

Also taught himself to play left-handed to prove to himself the info was correct and to experience what beginners or high handicappers felt.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embLDGrypjw&playnext=1&list=PL579200F73CEF7447[/media]


@ggpro, camera angle is too far in front from the DeFrancesco clip, check out that swing of him hitting an iron above. Mac had to do some things a little differently than he said due to a spine/back condition. Kind of stayed flexed over and then extended, stood up, towards the end of the backswing rather than gradually extending. Shoulder measurement to stay centered is this,
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Ol8q0unsU[/media]

[hoganfan924]

Trying to analyze and figure out what Mac believes based on readily available footage is a bit futile because decent footage is pretty rare, and the available stuff spans a 25 year time period during which he made significant changes and experimented with different things, as well as suffered with a serious congenital spine problem. I have footage of him from 1985 when he was winning on tour and swinging his absolute best. Both right and left handed swings. Magnificent stuff and much better than his most recently available swings, IMO.

The personally taken footage I have of him from one of his schools in 2006 shows a very huge lateral move (including sliding his head at least 6" forward on the DS with irons) and getting very steep (digging trenches). But I later learned that during this time he was experimenting with more linear/lateral motion and that it no longer represents his latest beliefs. Just another example of why it's hard to pin down what he believes as they've evolved a bit.

Mac's webpage said back in 2006 that his study was complete and that he would be publishing a book. I don't think he'll ever publish.

[JD3]

[quote name='mvmac' timestamp='1308759431' post='3327112']Mac had to do some things a little differently than he said due to a spine/back condition. Kind of stayed flexed over and then extended, stood up, towards the end of the backswing rather than gradually extending
[/quote]
great color thanks mvmac. I always wondered why he had that little hitch at the end of his BS

[tembolo1284]

He also broke his left arm and can't straighten it. That adds to the fun....especially when he swings left-handed.

[PingG10guy]

I would like to hear some more info as well...somebody has to have something

[Spraddog]

Mac has made some set-up and swing changes recently and there are big differences to the clips you have. I agree though he hits it very good.

[Siteseer2]

Haha, JD3....why don't you try cracking the Knights Templar....would probably be easier. You'll find roughly two camps...Those in the know, ain't going to be sayin' (because why give-away a man's life work....listening SnT?, and don't mean that in an ugly sense)...and those that are sayin,' ain't going to be in the know ....just my take.

[JD3]

[quote name='Siteseer2' timestamp='1308776148' post='3327882']
Haha, JD3....why don't you try cracking the Knights Templar....would probably be easier. You'll find roughly two camps...Those in the know, ain't going to be sayin' (because why give-away a man's life work....listening SnT?, and don't mean that in an ugly sense)...and those that are sayin,' ain't going to be in the know ....just my take.
[/quote]
I hear what you're saying, but neither extreme is that black and white; there are some with proximity who will share insights, and not every "outsider" is clueless and w/o merit. Hence the basis for this thread, which already has some good posts.

[eightiron]

[quote name='mvmac' timestamp='1308759431' post='3327112']
Also taught himself to play left-handed to prove to himself the info was correct and to experience what beginners or high handicappers felt.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embLDGrypjw&playnext=1&list=PL579200F73CEF7447[/media]


@ggpro, camera angle is too far in front from the DeFrancesco clip, check out that swing of him hitting an iron above. Mac had to do some things a little differently than he said due to a spine/back condition. Kind of stayed flexed over and then extended, stood up, towards the end of the backswing rather than gradually extending. Shoulder measurement to stay centered is this,
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Ol8q0unsU[/media]

[/quote]

Which swing are you referring 2 with the standing up at end of backswing?

[eightiron]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1308758088' post='3327044']
Listening to DeFrancesco, Mac has an odd set-up which causes him to make compensations during the swing. So, not a great set-up or swing, certainly not anything to be copied. How did he become the deity of a particular swing cult?
[/quote]

What are the compensations?

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1308784265' post='3328166']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1308758088' post='3327044']
Listening to DeFrancesco, Mac has an odd set-up which causes him to make compensations during the swing. So, not a great set-up or swing, certainly not anything to be copied. How did he become the deity of a particular swing cult?
[/quote]

What are the compensations?
[/quote]

I was hoping to hear about the setup actually. Theres a few guys with great swings that use some of mac's setup. Cant really find anything definitive online though.

[mvmac]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1308784043' post='3328153']
Which swing are you referring 2 with the standing up at end of backswing?
[/quote]

Mac's extension piece from P3-4

[JD3]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1308764888' post='3327352']
Trying to analyze and figure out what Mac believes based on readily available footage is a bit futile because decent footage is pretty rare, and the available stuff spans a 25 year time period during which he made significant changes and experimented with different things, as well as suffered with a serious congenital spine problem. I have footage of him from 1985 when he was winning on tour and swinging his absolute best. Both right and left handed swings. Magnificent stuff and much better than his most recently available swings, IMO.

The personally taken footage I have of him from one of his schools in 2006 shows a very huge lateral move (including sliding his head at least 6" forward on the DS with irons) and getting very steep (digging trenches). But I later learned that during this time he was experimenting with more linear/lateral motion and that it no longer represents his latest beliefs. Just another example of why it's hard to pin down what he believes as they've evolved a bit.

Mac's webpage said back in 2006 that his study was complete and that he would be publishing a book. I don't think he'll ever publish.
[/quote]
Honestly this just sounds like it's coming from the encyclopedia where slicedixer is critical of o Grady in particular and lateral movement in general. His conclusion that lateral movement has no place in a golf swing has really pigeon holed him into a bad position

[eightiron]

[quote name='mvmac' timestamp='1308794197' post='3328613']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1308784043' post='3328153']
Which swing are you referring 2 with the standing up at end of backswing?
[/quote]

Mac's extension piece from P3-4
[/quote]

Which swing ? Certainly don't see an excessive extension piece at all , most swings I have seen he gets more tipped over from p3 - 4-- 5 . So that would be more lateral flex of the left side while cog moving forward .... so his morad research swing is based off a spine disorder and this is a compensation?

[attachment=808260:macp3.jpg]

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1308828110' post='3329221']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1308764888' post='3327352']
Trying to analyze and figure out what Mac believes based on readily available footage is a bit futile because decent footage is pretty rare, and the available stuff spans a 25 year time period during which he made significant changes and experimented with different things, as well as suffered with a serious congenital spine problem. I have footage of him from 1985 when he was winning on tour and swinging his absolute best. Both right and left handed swings. Magnificent stuff and much better than his most recently available swings, IMO.

The personally taken footage I have of him from one of his schools in 2006 shows a very huge lateral move (including sliding his head at least 6" forward on the DS with irons) and getting very steep (digging trenches). But I later learned that during this time he was experimenting with more linear/lateral motion and that it no longer represents his latest beliefs. Just another example of why it's hard to pin down what he believes as they've evolved a bit.

Mac's webpage said back in 2006 that his study was complete and that he would be publishing a book. I don't think he'll ever publish.
[/quote]
Honestly this just sounds like it's coming from the encyclopedia where slicedixer is critical of o Grady in particular and lateral movement in general. His conclusion that lateral movement has no place in a golf swing has really pigeon holed him into a bad position
[/quote]

My opinions are my own. Geoff's criticism of Mac were relative to his 2006 swing only and he was very complimentary of the way he swung when he was on tour. Hmm, wonder where he got the '06 footage? But nice try mis-characterizing Geoff's beliefs and pigeon holing yourself. lol

But maybe Mac was [b][i]enjoying[/i][/b] hitting flyers from the fairway in '06?

As I said, his swing has evolved quite a bit over time and I don't think he's nearly as lateral now as he was in '06 when he was experimenting with what he termed "linear momentum transfer." The latest information that I have is that he's more back to his "online" swing, much closer to what he was doing in the late 80's.

Why don't you ask about "radius locks" and where Mac came up with that idea? lol

[spider]

Ok I'll bite Hoganfan. What are/is "radius locks" and the genesis of that idea? Sounds interesting

I agree with 8iron the extension P4 looks pretty "normal" to me. That piece is the hardest part to do correctly IMO. I'm not a mac person just very hard for me to get that little extension at p4

[mvmac]

[quote name='spider' timestamp='1308850596' post='3330171']
Ok I'll bite Hoganfan. What are/is "radius locks" and the genesis of that idea? Sounds interesting

I agree with 8iron the extension P4 looks pretty "normal" to me. That piece is the hardest part to do correctly IMO. I'm not a mac person just very hard for me to get that little extension at p4
[/quote]

is it referring to locking in the dorsi flexion of the left wrist?

[dana dahlquist]

[quote name='spider' timestamp='1308850596' post='3330171']
Ok I'll bite Hoganfan. What are/is "radius locks" and the genesis of that idea? Sounds interesting

I agree with 8iron the extension P4 looks pretty "normal" to me. That piece is the hardest part to do correctly IMO. I'm not a mac person just very hard for me to get that little extension at p4
[/quote]
Built in errors, so to speak.

Really it’s the 2 Acc release on the left wrist for starters, came off an old bootleg video that everyone has. Video was meant for Jodie Mudd, if memory serves.

So it’s the orientations of the cocking of the left wrist as it relates to the side tilts and rotations around the centers. However if you look at it, he is stating how the handle changes have to be minimized even if you get handle lean. At its time it was very cutting edge.

[dana dahlquist]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1308839817' post='3329671']
[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1308828110' post='3329221']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1308764888' post='3327352']
Trying to analyze and figure out what Mac believes based on readily available footage is a bit futile because decent footage is pretty rare, and the available stuff spans a 25 year time period during which he made significant changes and experimented with different things, as well as suffered with a serious congenital spine problem. I have footage of him from 1985 when he was winning on tour and swinging his absolute best. Both right and left handed swings. Magnificent stuff and much better than his most recently available swings, IMO.

The personally taken footage I have of him from one of his schools in 2006 shows a very huge lateral move (including sliding his head at least 6" forward on the DS with irons) and getting very steep (digging trenches). But I later learned that during this time he was experimenting with more linear/lateral motion and that it no longer represents his latest beliefs. Just another example of why it's hard to pin down what he believes as they've evolved a bit.

Mac's webpage said back in 2006 that his study was complete and that he would be publishing a book. I don't think he'll ever publish.
[/quote]
Honestly this just sounds like it's coming from the encyclopedia where slicedixer is critical of o Grady in particular and lateral movement in general. His conclusion that lateral movement has no place in a golf swing has really pigeon holed him into a bad position
[/quote]

My opinions are my own. Geoff's criticism of Mac were relative to his 2006 swing only and he was very complimentary of the way he swung when he was on tour. Hmm, wonder where he got the '06 footage? But nice try mis-characterizing Geoff's beliefs and pigeon holing yourself. lol

But maybe Mac was [b][i]enjoying[/i][/b] hitting flyers from the fairway in '06?

As I said, his swing has evolved quite a bit over time and I don't think he's nearly as lateral now as he was in '06 when he was experimenting with what he termed "linear momentum transfer." The latest information that I have is that he's more back to his "online" swing, much closer to what he was doing in the late 80's.

Why don't you ask about "radius locks" and where Mac came up with that idea? lol
[/quote]
Mac did not hit flyers in 06. He does not play with that swing unless its a low cut

[tembolo1284]

holy toboggans this thread is bananas!

Love it.

[chris_golf]

<object width="560" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bDUTIW3t2Go?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bDUTIW3t2Go?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="349"></object> Wish there would be more vids like this... BTW what is tinsel force? Chris

[tembolo1284]

chris welcome back! A lot of ppl were asking about ya.

Great post as always!