Mac O'Grady's Swing ... what can we learn?

[jtotto83]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1308867895' post='3330909']
<object width="560" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bDUTIW3t2Go?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bDUTIW3t2Go?version=3&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="349"></object> Wish there would be more vids like this... BTW what is tinsel force? Chris
[/quote]

Tensile force is a pulling or stretching. So I guess the video is saying the right foot is "pulled off the ground" as opposed to "pushed."

[JD3]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1308839817' post='3329671']

My opinions are my own. Geoff's criticism of Mac were relative to his 2006 swing only and he was very complimentary of the way he swung when he was on tour. Hmm, wonder where he got the '06 footage? But nice try mis-characterizing Geoff's beliefs and pigeon holing yourself. lol

But maybe Mac was [b][i]enjoying[/i][/b] hitting flyers from the fairway in '06?

As I said, his swing has evolved quite a bit over time and I don't think he's nearly as lateral now as he was in '06 when he was experimenting with what he termed "linear momentum transfer." The latest information that I have is that he's more back to his "online" swing, much closer to what he was doing in the late 80's.

Why don't you ask about "radius locks" and where Mac came up with that idea? lol
[/quote]
I know where you got it, no need to try and explain. Right out of the encyclopedia where he says something like "Mac's swing today is a poor representation of what it was on the regular tour, blah, blah, blah." So here we have a guy pushing 60, who any of Slicefixer guys over the age of 30 would die to have a swing like. And yet it's a "poor representation?" The slicefixer model (built on a very bad premise imo) is too in to out, requiring a massive "swing low and left "/stay in flexion compensation. Not something Mac has to do, and btw not something Hogan did either.

[tembolo1284]

Can you be CP and way in to out?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='broth518' timestamp='1308750365' post='3326694']
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Here is another caddie view

<object width="425" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zpMw1IcrBok?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zpMw1IcrBok?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

DTL
[/quote]


His backswing I see no cupping. I see strengthening of left wrist which result to minimal cup if not flat. In backswing, I see Mac straightening or keeping straight/loaded the left wrist. Is Mac opening/rolling the face open in relation to the target line, but it actually stays square to the arc before it really opens nearing the top causing the lay off? In short, how the heck did he do his bs? What's his intentions/conscious thoughts/feel? He's rotating the left hand/arm alright, but how? I think there are 2 ways to rotate the left arm to drive the bs..first--sorta opening/twisting the left hand with the base muscle of left thumb on palm side going down immediately towards ground..like immediately touching a table with your left palm; second--you sorta do the waggle..you sirta push under with your left hand..this results to opening of face also relative to target line but not so much relative to arc..results also to pitch elbow bec if you don't pitch elbow you'll find your right hand getting off the left thumb..in reverse, you'd have to keep your right hand on top of left thumb, and to do this you'd have to keep your right elbow close to the left arm and point it down. Which one is Mac doing? I think it's the second? And it's also Hogan by the way..

[JD3]

Great find MVMAC. I take it that's from one of his seminars where he gives attendees a videotape analysis swinging side by side with him. I like how perfectly Mac loads #2 versus DMD who loads it faster. Wonder what Mac's thoughts are on how to load #2. Also DMD seems to "come apart" into the follow, with his elbows separating. Not to suggest DMD doesn;t have a solid motion, but compared to Mac some things are revealed.

[jgonz69]

[quote name='mvmac' timestamp='1309151334' post='3337886']
Just came across this

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V_dDCkoXHo&feature=feedu[/media]
[/quote]
video is private

[fats]

Bottom line: Mac has a "handle" on things. I see nothing negative in anything he teaches/taught or swings like way back when, now, and from this day forward.

[svsvincenzo]

Mac's swing looks more Hogan than Snead to me... Don't understand declaration that Snead is the model mainly and not Hogan..

[gmbtempe]

Mac just changed the model and the video that was taken down has one of his students who Mac says is very close to the most current model.

The big changes had to do with eye, and head tilts, and left shoulder movements.

[tembolo1284]

Who thinks he will actually publish any of his work?

[JD3]

[quote name='gmbtempe' timestamp='1309844260' post='3365107']
Mac just changed the model and the video that was taken down has one of his students who Mac says is very close to the most current model.

[b]The big changes had to do with eye, and head tilts, and left shoulder movements.[/b]
[/quote]
in what way?

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1309884292' post='3366018']
[quote name='gmbtempe' timestamp='1309844260' post='3365107']
Mac just changed the model and the video that was taken down has one of his students who Mac says is very close to the most current model.

[b]The big changes had to do with eye, and head tilts, and left shoulder movements.[/b]
[/quote]
in what way?
[/quote]

I was about to ask the same thing. A couple of guys jump in talking like they know(and probably do). Sound like most of the Mac posts on wrx. Still mysterious. Can anybody shed some light on all this?

[Tiltswing]

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1308878625' post='3331358']
[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1308839817' post='3329671']
My opinions are my own. Geoff's criticism of Mac were relative to his 2006 swing only and he was very complimentary of the way he swung when he was on tour. Hmm, wonder where he got the '06 footage? But nice try mis-characterizing Geoff's beliefs and pigeon holing yourself. lol

But maybe Mac was [b][i]enjoying[/i][/b] hitting flyers from the fairway in '06?

As I said, his swing has evolved quite a bit over time and I don't think he's nearly as lateral now as he was in '06 when he was experimenting with what he termed "linear momentum transfer." The latest information that I have is that he's more back to his "online" swing, much closer to what he was doing in the late 80's.

Why don't you ask about "radius locks" and where Mac came up with that idea? lol
[/quote]
I know where you got it, no need to try and explain. Right out of the encyclopedia where he says something like "Mac's swing today is a poor representation of what it was on the regular tour, blah, blah, blah." So here we have a guy pushing 60, who any of Slicefixer guys over the age of 30 would die to have a swing like. And yet it's a "poor representation?" The slicefixer model (built on a very bad premise imo) is too in to out, requiring a massive "swing low and left "/stay in flexion compensation. Not something Mac has to do, and btw not something Hogan did either.
[/quote]

In flexion?: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYxsxEamMJE&feature=channel_video_title"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYxsxEamMJE&feature=channel_video_title[/url] . Looks like Spider has plenty of extension to me.

[russc1597187869]

Why does Mac have this reputaion of having such a perfect swing.He attempted to qualify for the tour 17 times.He won two times on tour and was certaintly not a dominate player ,tee to green?

[dana dahlquist]

More to playing golf than hitting the ball. One thing that may help is not getting into battles before during and after you tee off. Just a hunch.

[imstackedson]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1310668270' post='3391498']
Why does Mac have this reputaion of having such a perfect swing.He attempted to qualify for the tour 17 times.He won two times on tour and was certaintly not a dominate player ,tee to green?
[/quote]

what are you asking dude...you says he certainly wasnt a dominate player which is obv true but then you say he wasn't dominate tee to green?? you do understand they aren't even close to the same thing right? lots of great strikers cant make it on tour and lots of guys on tour cant hit it worth a darn compared to some other dudes....mac is known for having a great swing because he is one of the most impressive ball strikers to ever live....and like the guy above me said...being crazy doesn't exactly help your performance on da tour

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='imstackedson' timestamp='1310670696' post='3391603']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1310668270' post='3391498']
Why does Mac have this reputaion of having such a perfect swing.He attempted to qualify for the tour 17 times.He won two times on tour and was certaintly not a dominate player ,tee to green?
[/quote]

what are you asking dude...you says he certainly wasnt a dominate player which is obv true but then you say he wasn't dominate tee to green?? you do understand they aren't even close to the same thing right? lots of great strikers cant make it on tour and lots of guys on tour cant hit it worth a darn compared to some other dudes....mac is known for having a great swing because he is one of the most impressive ball strikers to ever live....and like the guy above me said...being crazy doesn't exactly help your performance on da tour
[/quote]
Hitting the ball off the button does not make you a great ballstriker if you don't know where it's going all the time. How many times was Mac even among the Tour leaders in ANY statistic besides driving distance? I don't care how you hit it on the driving range, or during golf schools in the middle of the desert. Under the gun, under different conditions, could you flag it? Hogan could...Snead could...like his action or not, Tiger could...Mac couldn't.

(This is a comparative statement. Obviously, winning twice on Tour still makes you a great player. But people need to dial back the hero worship.)

[imstackedson]

Why does Mac have this reputaion of having such a perfect swing.He attempted to qualify for the tour 17 times.He won two times on tour and was certaintly not a dominate player ,tee to green?

 

what are you asking dude...you says he certainly wasnt a dominate player which is obv true but then you say he wasn't dominate tee to green?? you do understand they aren't even close to the same thing right? lots of great strikers cant make it on tour and lots of guys on tour cant hit it worth a darn compared to some other dudes....mac is known for having a great swing because he is one of the most impressive ball strikers to ever live....and like the guy above me said...being crazy doesn't exactly help your performance on da tour

Hitting the ball off the button does not make you a great ballstriker if you don't know where it's going all the time. How many times was Mac even among the Tour leaders in ANY statistic besides driving distance? I don't care how you hit it on the driving range, or during golf schools in the middle of the desert. Under the gun, under different conditions, could you flag it? Hogan could...Snead could...like his action or not, Tiger could...Mac couldn't.

 

(This is a comparative statement. Obviously, winning twice on Tour still makes you a great player. But people need to dial back the hero worship.)

 

seen him hit it on the range, seen him play...flagging it aint the dudes problem. He's gots lots of problems, but that aint it. Seen lots of dudes strike it and played with lots of dudes on tv....mac hit it better than all of them....grant hits it damn good too but it doesn't have the sound and flight that puts you in awe like mac....didn't have the opportunity to see hogan or snead...but flagging it under the gun has a bit more to do with your head than you are letting on .....tiger would kill to swing like mac...or grant even, no doubt about it...but when a major is on the line tiger can flag it and grant and mac probably cant....has alot less to do with mechanics than you are letting on....mac is a hero and the hero worship won't die....sorry to disappoint...

[tembolo1284]

so can someone push him a bit to publish stuff.

[russc1597187869]

[quote name='imstackedson' timestamp='1310670696' post='3391603']
[quote name='russc' timestamp='1310668270' post='3391498']
Why does Mac have this reputaion of having such a perfect swing.He attempted to qualify for the tour 17 times.He won two times on tour and was certaintly not a dominate player ,tee to green?
[/quote]

what are you asking dude...you says he certainly wasnt a dominate player which is obv true but then you say he wasn't dominate tee to green?? you do understand they aren't even close to the same thing right? lots of great strikers cant make it on tour and lots of guys on tour cant hit it worth a darn compared to some other dudes....mac is known for having a great swing because he is one of the most impressive ball strikers to ever live....and like the guy above me said...being crazy doesn't exactly help your performance on da tour
[/quote]

I only mentioned that he was not a" dominate player from, tee to green".To me a great ball striker has dominate stats from tee to green,even if his short game and his psychological side is suspect.

What I would really like to know where I could access his swing from his touring pro days.There does not seem to be any videos earlier than the the mid 2000's.According to his biography he had to retire from the tour in 1989 because of a progressive back problem called spondylolisthesis,so swings from 6 or 7 years ago probably are not indicative of his swing when he was at top from. .Even the great Ben Hogan called his own swing that "of a cripple" after his accident. I have also had problems in accessing written information about his swing concepts.His website only refers to seminars/sessions at $2,500 a clip ,so I assume that most of the people who are knowledgeable on his swing have been to to a number of these seminars.I would really appreciate it if anyone could be concrete about how to learn Morad on my own as I do not have the money to spend on visiting him in person.

[imstackedson]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1310675366' post='3391830']
so can someone push him a bit to publish stuff.
[/quote]

lol......you volunteering?

not happening

[PreppySlapCut]

seen him hit it on the range, seen him play...flagging it aint the dudes problem. He's gots lots of problems, but that aint it. Seen lots of dudes strike it and played with lots of dudes on tv....mac hit it better than all of them....grant hits it damn good too but it doesn't have the sound and flight that puts you in awe like mac....didn't have the opportunity to see hogan or snead...but flagging it under the gun has a bit more to do with your head than you are letting on .....tiger would kill to swing like mac...or grant even, no doubt about it...but when a major is on the line tiger can flag it and grant and mac probably cant....has alot less to do with mechanics than you are letting on....mac is a hero and the hero worship won't die....sorry to disappoint...

It's fine. I'm not disappointed. All you did was make my argument for me. If you can't flag it under pressure, or hit one of your 87 desired trajectory windows with X yards of movement, then who really cares?

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='russc' timestamp='1310675879' post='3391863']
I would really appreciate it if anyone could be concrete about how to learn Morad on my own as I do not have the money to spend on visiting him in person.
[/quote]
I'm pretty sure that without the ability to go see him, your only real bet would be to go see someone who's spent a LOT of time with him. I know Lake (who's probably seen this thread) is a great instructor who's been influenced heavily by Mac. Even though he's from TN, he would probably be a good person to get you pointed in the right direction.

[imstackedson]

seen him hit it on the range, seen him play...flagging it aint the dudes problem. He's gots lots of problems, but that aint it. Seen lots of dudes strike it and played with lots of dudes on tv....mac hit it better than all of them....grant hits it damn good too but it doesn't have the sound and flight that puts you in awe like mac....didn't have the opportunity to see hogan or snead...but flagging it under the gun has a bit more to do with your head than you are letting on .....tiger would kill to swing like mac...or grant even, no doubt about it...but when a major is on the line tiger can flag it and grant and mac probably cant....has alot less to do with mechanics than you are letting on....mac is a hero and the hero worship won't die....sorry to disappoint...

It's fine. I'm not disappointed. All you did was make my argument for me. If you can't flag it under pressure, or hit one of your 87 desired trajectory windows with X yards of movement, then who really cares?

 

 

 

well it is very possible to hit all 87 windows you desire and not hit the ball to two feet, or even 15 feet, but now we are just arguing semantics.....lolz...you obviously have a bit of a grudge towards his system and thats fine, so do i.....mac just hits it better than everyone ive ever seen, grant is a very close second...so they don't hit it tight under pressure as often as like 3 of the greatest players in the history of game (which is beyond obvious has more to do with with what kind of head you have on your shoulders and balls you got more than your swing mechanics) doesn't mean the guy isn't an incredible ball striker.....i suppose knudson and norman (moe) weren't very good either? ...lolz...get off it dude...mac is silly good at hitting the golf ball....lots of great hitters don't make great players...i hope this is obvious

 

 

[PingG10guy]

never thought this thread would turn out this way...thats sad. If youre not a fan of MORAD or Mac then why would you comment at all?

[russc1597187869]

Why does Mac have this reputaion of having such a perfect swing.He attempted to qualify for the tour 17 times.He won two times on tour and was certaintly not a dominate player ,tee to green?

 

what are you asking dude...you says he certainly wasnt a dominate player which is obv true but then you say he wasn't dominate tee to green?? you do understand they aren't even close to the same thing right? lots of great strikers cant make it on tour and lots of guys on tour cant hit it worth a darn compared to some other dudes....mac is known for having a great swing because he is one of the most impressive ball strikers to ever live....and like the guy above me said...being crazy doesn't exactly help your performance on da tour

Hitting the ball off the button does not make you a great ballstriker if you don't know where it's going all the time. How many times was Mac even among the Tour leaders in ANY statistic besides driving distance? I don't care how you hit it on the driving range, or during golf schools in the middle of the desert. Under the gun, under different conditions, could you flag it? Hogan could...Snead could...like his action or not, Tiger could...Mac couldn't.

 

(This is a comparative statement. Obviously, winning twice on Tour still makes you a great player. But people need to dial back the hero worship.)

 

seen him hit it on the range, seen him play...flagging it aint the dudes problem. He's gots lots of problems, but that aint it. Seen lots of dudes strike it and played with lots of dudes on tv....mac hit it better than all of them....grant hits it damn good too but it doesn't have the sound and flight that puts you in awe like mac....didn't have the opportunity to see hogan or snead...but flagging it under the gun has a bit more to do with your head than you are letting on .....tiger would kill to swing like mac...or grant even, no doubt about it...but when a major is on the line tiger can flag it and grant and mac probably cant....has alot less to do with mechanics than you are letting on....mac is a hero and the hero worship won't die....sorry to disappoint...

 

Maybe you saw him in the 80's when he was swinging differently,but his stats in recent years are to say the least unimpressive. I concede that maybe his poor performance has been caused by many back and arm surgeries,other physical maladies and his staus as as an "super senior",but whatever the reason ,he is just not swinging anywhere near the status of great ball striker on any tour or even anywhere near a good amateur in CA.

[imstackedson]

Why does Mac have this reputaion of having such a perfect swing.He attempted to qualify for the tour 17 times.He won two times on tour and was certaintly not a dominate player ,tee to green?

 

what are you asking dude...you says he certainly wasnt a dominate player which is obv true but then you say he wasn't dominate tee to green?? you do understand they aren't even close to the same thing right? lots of great strikers cant make it on tour and lots of guys on tour cant hit it worth a darn compared to some other dudes....mac is known for having a great swing because he is one of the most impressive ball strikers to ever live....and like the guy above me said...being crazy doesn't exactly help your performance on da tour

Hitting the ball off the button does not make you a great ballstriker if you don't know where it's going all the time. How many times was Mac even among the Tour leaders in ANY statistic besides driving distance? I don't care how you hit it on the driving range, or during golf schools in the middle of the desert. Under the gun, under different conditions, could you flag it? Hogan could...Snead could...like his action or not, Tiger could...Mac couldn't.

 

(This is a comparative statement. Obviously, winning twice on Tour still makes you a great player. But people need to dial back the hero worship.)

 

seen him hit it on the range, seen him play...flagging it aint the dudes problem. He's gots lots of problems, but that aint it. Seen lots of dudes strike it and played with lots of dudes on tv....mac hit it better than all of them....grant hits it damn good too but it doesn't have the sound and flight that puts you in awe like mac....didn't have the opportunity to see hogan or snead...but flagging it under the gun has a bit more to do with your head than you are letting on .....tiger would kill to swing like mac...or grant even, no doubt about it...but when a major is on the line tiger can flag it and grant and mac probably cant....has alot less to do with mechanics than you are letting on....mac is a hero and the hero worship won't die....sorry to disappoint...

 

Maybe you saw him in the 80's when he was swinging differently,but his stats in recent years are to say the least unimpressive. I concede that maybe his poor performance has been caused by many back and arm surgeries,other physical maladies and his staus as as an "super senior",but whatever the reason ,he is just not swinging anywhere near the status of great ball striker on any tour or even anywhere near a good amateur in CA.

 

wait so you are judging his stats and such off of his current form? and not his form in his prime?...if so we are talking about two different macs...not saying he still isn't very impressive to watch smack it..but im not judging 60 year old severly surgeried and injured up and and crazier than ever mac....also pm me your email address i gots some stuff fo ya

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='imstackedson' timestamp='1310687114' post='3392283']
well it is very possible to hit all 87 windows you desire and not hit the ball to two feet, or even 15 feet, but now we are just arguing semantics.....lolz...you obviously have a bit of a grudge towards his system and thats fine, so do i.....mac just hits it better than everyone ive ever seen, grant is a very close second...so they don't hit it tight under pressure as often as like 3 of the greatest players in the history of game (which is beyond obvious has more to do with with what kind of head you have on your shoulders and balls you got more than your swing mechanics) doesn't mean the guy isn't an incredible ball striker.....i suppose knudson and norman (moe) weren't very good either? ...lolz...get off it dude...mac is silly good at hitting the golf ball....lots of great hitters don't make great players...i hope this is obvious
[/quote]
I don't have a problem at all with the man, nor his swing. Perhaps we just have a different definition of what makes someone a "great" ball-striker. Hitting a bunch of different trajectory windows or shaping it the way you want does you ZERO good if you can't really control where it ends up. A guy like Joe Durant is a good example of what I'm talking about. Joe has one shot, and maybe a few VERY slight variations of that one shot. He's played a long-ish time on Tour, won a respectable 4 events, but most often now finds himself hanging out around the 100 mark on the money list. He has no short game to speak of, which much like Mac, has held him back. However, he still leads the Tour (or finishes at worst in the top 5) every year in ball-striking. Mac never even approached these numbers. Knudson was, in my opinion, a better ball-striker. He also picked up 8 wins on Tour.

I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm trying to have a discussion like a grown-up. I don't use terms like "lolz" and poor syntax to get my point across, but hopefully you can see where I'm going.

[PreppySlapCut]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1310688664' post='3392340']
never thought this thread would turn out this way...thats sad. If youre not a fan of MORAD or Mac then why would you comment at all?
[/quote]
I have no qualms with Mac. I actually like his CP action a lot. My initial comments were merely made in defense of Russc, who I believe was correct in questioning why we were viewing Mac as one of the all-time great ball-strikers.

[lagster]

[i]
I only mentioned that he was not a" dominate player from, tee to green".To me a great ball striker has dominate stats from tee to green,even if his short game and his psychological side is suspect.

What I would really like to know where I could access his swing from his touring pro days.There does not seem to be any videos earlier than the the mid 2000's.According to his biography he had to retire from the tour in 1989 because of a progressive back problem called spondylolisthesis,so swings from 6 or 7 years ago probably are not indicative of his swing when he was at top from. .Even the great Ben Hogan called his own swing that "of a cripple" after his accident. I have also had problems in accessing written information about his swing concepts.His website only refers to seminars/sessions at $2,500 a clip ,so I assume that most of the people who are knowledgeable on his swing have been to to a number of these seminars.I would really appreciate it if anyone could be concrete about how to learn Morad on my own as I do not have the money to spend on visiting him in person.

[/i]Here you go[i]

[url="http://www.gothamgolfblog.com/2010/03/mac-ogrady.html"]Mac[/url]
[/i]