Beginning my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Made some breakthroughs this weekend. With Kim's help. Working towards fixing my disorder I've developed over the past few months.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvqYKgvMCdE[/media]

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

 

 

 

 

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1350276588' post='5794887']
Made some breakthroughs this weekend. With Kim's help. Working towards fixing my disorder I've developed over the past few months.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvqYKgvMCdE[/media]
[/quote]

Is the "disorder" that humongous over-the-top move?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1351016202' post='5834291']
Is the "disorder" that humongous over-the-top move?
[/quote]

Ahhhh, I was wondering when someone would notice. I'm doing the extreme OTT on purpose but I thought it would be a lot more OTT on video. Next will experiment with extreme UTT. Just want to know the feels of both extremes.

[tembolo1284]

so it's been over a year. How's the ball flight?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1351091691' post='5838813']
so it's been over a year. How's the ball flight?
[/quote]

Ball flight with wooden clubs is straight with a little fady thing at the end. Ball rolls out to the right of fairway. Ball is making that fizz sound through the air again.
Ball flight with irons is nada cause I haven't swung them yet.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1351095774' post='5839247']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1351091691' post='5838813']
so it's been over a year. How's the ball flight?
[/quote]

Ball flight with wooden clubs is straight with a little fady thing at the end. Ball rolls out to the right of fairway. Ball is making that fizz sound through the air again.
Ball flight with irons is nada cause I haven't swung them yet.
[/quote]

How about a protracer before and after to show off how much you've improved in the last 12 odd months?

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Upper body work only. Absolutely no pushing off the right foot. Want to play around with the upper body only without having lower influence it. Working on new transition stuff. I've also changed the takeaway and upswing over the past 2 weeks.

These swings are not full power. Only 150yard shots so I can understand the new feeling. The thing I like most about this move is what the club head does at the top. From the DTL view, CH does a clockwise "U" pattern loop near my head.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byriVXmTelM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byriVXmTelM[/url]

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352688837' post='5920921']
Upper body work only. Absolutely no pushing off the right foot. Want to play around with the upper body only without having lower influence it. Working on new transition stuff. I've also changed the takeaway and upswing over the past 2 weeks.

These swings are not full power. Only 150yard shots so I can understand the new feeling. The thing I like most about this move is what the club head does at the top. From the DTL view, CH does a clockwise "U" pattern loop near my head.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byriVXmTelM[/media]
[/quote]

Who taught you to dump PA2 like that? I definitely think this is a necessary piece and something Hogan did to a certain extent.

When all the articles that players read about holding lag translate to their swings, you see too much wrist **** too late and the release sequence can be hard to get right. I'm in favor of you doing this drill for a while

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352738137' post='5922649']

Who taught you to dump PA2 like that? I definitely think this is a necessary piece and something Hogan did to a certain extent.

When all the articles that players read about holding lag translate to their swings, you see too much wrist **** too late and the release sequence can be hard to get right. I'm in favor of you doing this drill for a while
[/quote]

What the heck is PA2?

In this transition drill, all I'm doing is casting the club to my right-rear as I change direction and begin the downswing. If I do it in super slow mo, my club would point out of my right shoulder 45 degrees in relation to target line. And this casting direction along with my body turning is causing the CW loop of the clubhead at the top, which I like.

The part that I don't like is my lower body action....specifically the right leg/knee during downswing/impact. I know I need to be firing off my right foot but don't want to yet till I have a feel for the casting stuff. Trying to keep a single swing thought at a time.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352739626' post='5922759']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352738137' post='5922649']

Who taught you to dump PA2 like that? I definitely think this is a necessary piece and something Hogan did to a certain extent.

When all the articles that players read about holding lag translate to their swings, you see too much wrist **** too late and the release sequence can be hard to get right. I'm in favor of you doing this drill for a while
[/quote]

What the heck is PA2?

In this transition drill, all I'm doing is casting the club to my right-rear as I change direction and begin the downswing. If I do it in super slow mo, my club would point out of my right shoulder 45 degrees in relation to target line. And this casting direction along with my body turning is causing the CW loop of the clubhead at the top, which I like.

The part that I don't like is my lower body action....specifically the right leg/knee during downswing/impact. I know I need to be firing off my right foot but don't want to yet till I have a feel for the casting stuff. Trying to keep a single swing thought at a time.
[/quote]

ping is talking about wristcock - you're throwing it away from the top, which exactly what Hogan DID NOT do!

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Hogan's clubhead CW "U" movement during change of direction:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUthT4kThao"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUthT4kThao[/url]

Ahhh, yes MJ, I do understand what you mean now by "throwing the wristcock away from the top." Over time I'll work on maintaining it more and more. Trying to stay with a single thought/change so I don't overload the noggin.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352743442' post='5923037']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352739626' post='5922759']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352738137' post='5922649']
Who taught you to dump PA2 like that? I definitely think this is a necessary piece and something Hogan did to a certain extent.

When all the articles that players read about holding lag translate to their swings, you see too much wrist **** too late and the release sequence can be hard to get right. I'm in favor of you doing this drill for a while
[/quote]

What the heck is PA2?

In this transition drill, all I'm doing is casting the club to my right-rear as I change direction and begin the downswing. If I do it in super slow mo, my club would point out of my right shoulder 45 degrees in relation to target line. And this casting direction along with my body turning is causing the CW loop of the clubhead at the top, which I like.

The part that I don't like is my lower body action....specifically the right leg/knee during downswing/impact. I know I need to be firing off my right foot but don't want to yet till I have a feel for the casting stuff. Trying to keep a single swing thought at a time.
[/quote]

ping is talking about wristcock - you're throwing it away from the top, which exactly what Hogan DID NOT do!
[/quote]
Hogan is getting steeper from the top. And he loses some PA2 while retaining all of PA3. like I said...to a certain extent

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352743442' post='5923037']

ping is talking about wristcock - you're throwing it away from the top, which exactly what Hogan DID NOT do!
[/quote]

"Which is exactly what Hogan did not do"..........hmmmmm, I'm not sure how accurate that statement is just yet.

[PingG10guy]

"Stack and Tilt no more?" thread. Quotes from the greatest instructors to bless golfwrx with their insight IMO. Hogan is trying to dump PA2 before P7. A few TGM great instructors have commented online at one time or another that Hogan is getting steeper the whole downswing. Dump PA2. Make progress. Period. Dot

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Been going back and forth today with a forum member about what I "said" I'm doing in Take 41, vs what he sees me doing. He says there is no way I'm casting anything....that I'm getting the club right on plane through transition. He said if I was casting, I would be waaaay OTT.

I got tired of arguing with him, but it is interesting what video shows me doing vs what I am intentionally doing.

He also commended me on how I'm getting the CH to do the loop at the top. Says I must be flipping my wrists during transition. Once again, he is waaaay wrong. I am doing absolutely nothing to forcefully make the CH do anything. I had no idea this was happening till I got home and played the vid back and told Kim "hmmm, I like what the club is doing at the top." She said "how are you doing it?" I said, "I'm not......it's doing it by itself....it has paranormal activity!"

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352767920' post='5925223']
"Stack and Tilt no more?" thread. Quotes from the greatest instructors to bless golfwrx with their insight IMO. Hogan is trying to dump PA2 before P7. A few TGM great instructors have commented online at one time or another that Hogan is getting steeper the whole downswing. Dump PA2. Make progress. Period. Dot
[/quote]

Whether or not Hogan gets steeper on the downswing, steepness has absolutely NOTHING to do with retaining PA2 to a late release as Hogan does. Plane shifts are independent of release point. Early uncocking of the left wrist is a power leak and I wouldn't consider it "progress".

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352768582' post='5925283']
Been going back and forth today with a forum member about what I "said" I'm doing in Take 41, vs what he sees me doing. He says there is no way I'm casting anything....that I'm getting the club right on plane through transition. He said if I was casting, I would be waaaay OTT.
[/quote]

In fact, you are intentionally casting in order to stay on plane, which will work, but is a really bad idea if you are just trying to look like Hogan, and an even worse idea if trying to hit it like he does.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352774471' post='5925921']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352767920' post='5925223']
"Stack and Tilt no more?" thread. Quotes from the greatest instructors to bless golfwrx with their insight IMO. Hogan is trying to dump PA2 before P7. A few TGM great instructors have commented online at one time or another that Hogan is getting steeper the whole downswing. Dump PA2. Make progress. Period. Dot
[/quote]

Whether or not Hogan gets steeper on the downswing, steepness has absolutely NOTHING to do with retaining PA2 to a late release as Hogan does. Plane shifts are independent of release point. Early uncocking of the left wrist is a power leak and I wouldn't consider it "progress".
[/quote]
So Hogan's left wrist isn't level at impact?

[chrisgilly09]

I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352830989' post='5928687']
I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2
[/quote]

OK guys, tell me where in this video he starts this supposedly early loss of left wrist c0ck. At :24 with the hands deep down plane, he retains full loading of PA2 for a late snap release. And also, just where is this shaft getting steeper? He shallows it out from the top and it goes through the ball on a shallow angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg&feature=player_embedded

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

MJ, Is PA2 the right wrist?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352839614' post='5929309']
MJ, Is PA2 the right wrist?
[/quote]

No, the cocked left wrist.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352832044' post='5928777']
[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352830989' post='5928687']
I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2
[/quote]

OK guys, tell me where in this video he starts this supposedly early loss of left wrist c0ck. At :24 with the hands deep down plane, he retains full loading of PA2 for a late snap release. And also, just where is this shaft getting steeper? He shallows it out from the top and it goes through the ball on a shallow angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg&feature=player_embedded
[/quote]
From that vid I see it at p5.3 ish. For a player with a less dynamic pivot it would be much much sooner. Major dump at p6.5 in the vid posted

Keep all of pa2 and hit a ball. Then post a swing video of it

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

I need to know what all these P's mean so I can speak the same language as you guys. Reasearch underway.....will put up a P's video.

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352845373' post='5929823']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352832044' post='5928777']
[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352830989' post='5928687']
I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2
[/quote]

OK guys, tell me where in this video he starts this supposedly early loss of left wrist c0ck. At :24 with the hands deep down plane, he retains full loading of PA2 for a late snap release. And also, just where is this shaft getting steeper? He shallows it out from the top and it goes through the ball on a shallow angle.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[/quote]
From that vid I see it at p5.3 ish. For a player with a less dynamic pivot it would be much much sooner. Major dump at p6.5 in the vid posted

[b]Keep all of pa2 and hit a ball[/b]. Then post a swing video of it
[/quote]

You don't have to intentionally dump wrist c0ck pre impact. It automatically happens for you. I'm guessing that's MJ's point.

[tylerdurden]

and hogan wasn't doing a david toms cast away in his downswing

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352845373' post='5929823']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352832044' post='5928777']
[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352830989' post='5928687']
I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2
[/quote]

OK guys, tell me where in this video he starts this supposedly early loss of left wrist c0ck. At :24 with the hands deep down plane, he retains full loading of PA2 for a late snap release. And also, just where is this shaft getting steeper? He shallows it out from the top and it goes through the ball on a shallow angle.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[/quote]
From that vid I see it at p5.3 ish. For a player with a less dynamic pivot it would be much much sooner. Major dump at p6.5 in the vid posted

Keep all of pa2 and hit a ball. Then post a swing video of it
[/quote]

If he was actually able to do this, he'd swing about 3 feet over the top of it.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1352849012' post='5930085']
and hogan wasn't doing a david toms cast away in his downswing
[/quote]

Hmmm, never really looked at David Toms swing. Outstanding impact and post impact!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=pwMjozfH5Q8

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352851326' post='5930245']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1352849012' post='5930085']
and hogan wasn't doing a david toms cast away in his downswing
[/quote]

Hmmm, never really looked at David Toms swing. Outstanding impact and post impact!

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=pwMjozfH5Q8[/media]
[/quote]

Yep, but unlike hogan he's a short hitter, mainly because he doesn't lag the club like hogan did imo.