Beginning my try at duplicating Hogan's Swing

[TeeAce]

I love this open triangle position kept past impact. And right hand still way under left and shaft about perpendicular to the target line.

 

 

I guess TD is also right that out toss is his problem. Would like to see his rotation speeds, hand speed and right shoulder lateral speed. I'm pretty sure to see low numbers there as the club head moves so far away from center of rotation so early.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1352849012' post='5930085']
and hogan wasn't doing a david toms cast away in his downswing
[/quote]

Now you sir are getting silly lol. If you are a guy who keeps pa2 too long then you wont have any issues from swinging with a focus on losing it a little earlier.

Hogan would hit modern equipment much shorter than David toms does due to spin in my opinion.

Hogan had tons of pa3 at impact. I don't see any pa2.

Homer Kelley tells us what order the movements begin in. 4,1,2,3

EDIT; HK gives an indicator of what should not be moving early with 2,3 being last in sequence. Watch the Hogan focus swings. There's a few on YouTube that show him doing what he thought he did.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352767920' post='5925223']
"Stack and Tilt no more?" thread. Quotes from the greatest instructors to bless golfwrx with their insight IMO. Hogan is trying to dump PA2 before P7. A few TGM great instructors have commented online at one time or another that Hogan is getting steeper the whole downswing. Dump PA2. Make progress. Period. Dot
[/quote]

iTeach says the same thing. He's not underplane because he's getting steeper the whole time in his downswing. What you think?

[tembolo1284]

I found this. Would be interested in hearing opinions on it.

[url="http://jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?138-Video-response-for-Tapio-left-side-supination-flexion-and-ulnar-deviation-(UD"]http://jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?138-Video-response-for-Tapio-left-side-supination-flexion-and-ulnar-deviation-(UD[/url])

[tylerdurden]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352888410' post='5931743']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1352849012' post='5930085']
and hogan wasn't doing a david toms cast away in his downswing
[/quote]

Now you sir are getting silly lol. If you are a guy who keeps pa2 too long then you wont have any issues from swinging with a focus on losing it a little earlier.

Hogan would hit modern equipment much shorter than David toms does due to spin in my opinion.

Hogan had tons of pa3 at impact. I don't see any pa2.

Homer Kelley tells us what order the movements begin in. 4,1,2,3

EDIT; HK gives an indicator of what should not be moving early with 2,3 being last in sequence. Watch the Hogan focus swings. There's a few on YouTube that show him doing what he thought he did.
[/quote]

You know I'm ignorant on TGM so I can't comment on that stuff. But you are out of your mind if you think DT would be longer than Hogan with modern equipment. There's so many reasons this and facts supporting why this is incorrect I'm not even going to list them. Maybe you were joking.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1352848943' post='5930081']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352845373' post='5929823']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352832044' post='5928777']
[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352830989' post='5928687']
I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2
[/quote]

OK guys, tell me where in this video he starts this supposedly early loss of left wrist c0ck. At :24 with the hands deep down plane, he retains full loading of PA2 for a late snap release. And also, just where is this shaft getting steeper? He shallows it out from the top and it goes through the ball on a shallow angle.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[/quote]
From that vid I see it at p5.3 ish. For a player with a less dynamic pivot it would be much much sooner. Major dump at p6.5 in the vid posted

[b]Keep all of pa2 and hit a ball[/b]. Then post a swing video of it
[/quote]

You don't have to intentionally dump wrist c0ck pre impact. It automatically happens for you. I'm guessing that's MJ's point.
[/quote]

Exactly T - it WILL happen and the later the better.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1352849451' post='5930125']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352845373' post='5929823']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352832044' post='5928777']
[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352830989' post='5928687']
I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2
[/quote]

OK guys, tell me where in this video he starts this supposedly early loss of left wrist c0ck. At :24 with the hands deep down plane, he retains full loading of PA2 for a late snap release. And also, just where is this shaft getting steeper? He shallows it out from the top and it goes through the ball on a shallow angle.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[/quote]
From that vid I see it at p5.3 ish. For a player with a less dynamic pivot it would be much much sooner. Major dump at p6.5 in the vid posted

Keep all of pa2 and hit a ball. Then post a swing video of it
[/quote]

If he was actually able to do this, he'd swing about 3 feet over the top of it.
[/quote]

Well I can do it with a headless shaft! LOL

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352888410' post='5931743']

Hogan had tons of pa3 at impact. I don't see any pa2.

[/quote]

At impact his left wrist is level, which is only partially uncocked, so it continues to uncock through impact. It has to or there wouldn't be good ball compression.

[chrisgilly09]

MJ, I see 1-L with a bad azz pivot as a caveat

Toms is a fine player but I think he falls under what I mentioned a couple threads down.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352916758' post='5933515']
MJ, I see 1-L with a bad azz pivot as a caveat

Toms is a fine player but I think he falls under what I mentioned a couple threads down.
[/quote]

I agree, Hogan's pivot is a monster, especially from the waist down.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1352897382' post='5931931']
I found this. Would be interested in hearing opinions on it.

[url="http://jeffygolf.com/showthread.php?138-Video-response-for-Tapio-left-side-supination-flexion-and-ulnar-deviation-(UD"]http://jeffygolf.com...r-deviation-(UD[/url])
[/quote]

Kelvin made a big mistake already at the first sentence there. I never talked about UD closing the face so what he says there about my claims is 100% wrong. I can't understand where he get that idea of UD, but I was only talking about PF, not at all UD.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352911936' post='5933081']
[quote name='tylerdurden' timestamp='1352848943' post='5930081']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1352845373' post='5929823']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1352832044' post='5928777']
[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1352830989' post='5928687']
I like to think of the steepening starting at p5, not necessarily at 4, but we may have the same opinion I dunno.

Considering his L wrist started un****ed at address, ya I think it's level by impact. Agree there's not much holding of #2
[/quote]

OK guys, tell me where in this video he starts this supposedly early loss of left wrist c0ck. At :24 with the hands deep down plane, he retains full loading of PA2 for a late snap release. And also, just where is this shaft getting steeper? He shallows it out from the top and it goes through the ball on a shallow angle.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4DCZuAj5Mg&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[/quote]
From that vid I see it at p5.3 ish. For a player with a less dynamic pivot it would be much much sooner. Major dump at p6.5 in the vid posted

[b]Keep all of pa2 and hit a ball[/b]. Then post a swing video of it
[/quote]

You don't have to intentionally dump wrist c0ck pre impact. It automatically happens for you. I'm guessing that's MJ's point.
[/quote]

Exactly T - it WILL happen and the later the better.
[/quote]

The later the better if it fits your pattern. but for most (and me) over emphasis of lag causes a need to dump and jump out of it.

The entire reason why I said bhsp should do the drill is because the way he is currently swinging he holds everything too long. Watch his training vid again. Most of what he is doing is not all losing of pa2. He is building a feel and freeing up other things simultaneously.

When you free up your hands a bit the stability is different as well cuz you're minus 1 on the compensation list.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Grrrrr! Is there a freakin stinkin video out there somewhere that defines all the PA1, PA2, etc.???????? And don't tell me it's in the 5 lessons book lol!

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Are these the PA's you guys are talking about?
[url="http://sangabrieljuniorgolf.org/pages/golfswingpositions.htm"]http://sangabrieljuniorgolf.org/pages/golfswingpositions.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.swingacademy.com/forums/yaf_postsm868_The-9-Positions-of-the-Golf-Swing.aspx"]http://www.swingacademy.com/forums/yaf_postsm868_The-9-Positions-of-the-Golf-Swing.aspx[/url]

[TeeAce]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352938471' post='5935293']
Are these the PA's you guys are talking about?
[url="http://sangabrieljuniorgolf.org/pages/golfswingpositions.htm"]http://sangabrieljun...ngpositions.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.swingacademy.com/forums/yaf_postsm868_The-9-Positions-of-the-Golf-Swing.aspx"]http://www.swingacad...Golf-Swing.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Something like that, and biggest misleaders of the game.

As far these things are thought at 2D and by positions and plane, nothing gonna happen. Those things are just hiding the most relevant things and makes us to see some things we use to. Not those what we should.

I perfectly understand how hard it is to change everything in the way we see that, but it has to be done.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1352960752' post='5936963']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352938471' post='5935293']
Are these the PA's you guys are talking about?
[url="http://sangabrieljuniorgolf.org/pages/golfswingpositions.htm"]http://sangabrieljun...ngpositions.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.swingacademy.com/forums/yaf_postsm868_The-9-Positions-of-the-Golf-Swing.aspx"]http://www.swingacad...Golf-Swing.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Something like that, and biggest misleaders of the game.

As far these things are thought at 2D and by positions and plane, nothing gonna happen. Those things are just hiding the most relevant things and makes us to see some things we use to. Not those what we should.

I perfectly understand how hard it is to change everything in the way we see that, but it has to be done.
[/quote]

Yep...understood Tee, but I want to know about this P-stuff so I can know what a guy is talking about when he says "You hold your PA2 till your PA18 gets under your PA323, then you unc0ck your PA6 so its supinated and deviated by the derivitave of the exponent of PA16."

I don't do PAs in my swing. Just physical feelings. I do plan to teach this golf swing stuff someday and I gotta be able to talk the PA language to the masses. But I'll probably end up inventing my own golf language anway.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352989748' post='5937721']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1352960752' post='5936963']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352938471' post='5935293']
Are these the PA's you guys are talking about?
[url="http://sangabrieljuniorgolf.org/pages/golfswingpositions.htm"]http://sangabrieljun...ngpositions.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.swingacademy.com/forums/yaf_postsm868_The-9-Positions-of-the-Golf-Swing.aspx"]http://www.swingacad...Golf-Swing.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Something like that, and biggest misleaders of the game.

As far these things are thought at 2D and by positions and plane, nothing gonna happen. Those things are just hiding the most relevant things and makes us to see some things we use to. Not those what we should.

I perfectly understand how hard it is to change everything in the way we see that, but it has to be done.
[/quote]

Yep...understood Tee, but I want to know about this P-stuff so I can know what a guy is talking about when he says "You hold your PA2 till your PA18 gets under your PA323, then you unc0ck your PA6 so its supinated and deviated by the derivitave of the exponent of PA16."

I don't do PAs in my swing. Just physical feelings. I do plan to teach this golf swing stuff someday and I gotta be able to talk the PA language to the masses. But I'll probably end up inventing my own golf language anway.
[/quote]

no A in there...just P and then a number. Just so you can be somewhat specific on where you are at in the swing. MORAD guy Mac O'Grady started it I think and SnT dudes started using it from him.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1352990261' post='5937755']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352989748' post='5937721']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1352960752' post='5936963']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352938471' post='5935293']
Are these the PA's you guys are talking about?
[url="http://sangabrieljuniorgolf.org/pages/golfswingpositions.htm"]http://sangabrieljun...ngpositions.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.swingacademy.com/forums/yaf_postsm868_The-9-Positions-of-the-Golf-Swing.aspx"]http://www.swingacad...Golf-Swing.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Something like that, and biggest misleaders of the game.

As far these things are thought at 2D and by positions and plane, nothing gonna happen. Those things are just hiding the most relevant things and makes us to see some things we use to. Not those what we should.

I perfectly understand how hard it is to change everything in the way we see that, but it has to be done.
[/quote]

Yep...understood Tee, but I want to know about this P-stuff so I can know what a guy is talking about when he says "You hold your PA2 till your PA18 gets under your PA323, then you unc0ck your PA6 so its supinated and deviated by the derivitave of the exponent of PA16."

I don't do PAs in my swing. Just physical feelings. I do plan to teach this golf swing stuff someday and I gotta be able to talk the PA language to the masses. But I'll probably end up inventing my own golf language anway.
[/quote]

no A in there...just P and then a number. Just so you can be somewhat specific on where you are at in the swing. MORAD guy Mac O'Grady started it I think and SnT dudes started using it from him.
[/quote]

There's the Morad pN, where N = 1,2,..., which are positions in the swing, and then there's the PA1, PA2, PA3, PA4 power accumulators in the TGM system, which are unrelated to the Morad p's.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352989748' post='5937721']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1352960752' post='5936963']
[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1352938471' post='5935293']
Are these the PA's you guys are talking about?
[url="http://sangabrieljuniorgolf.org/pages/golfswingpositions.htm"]http://sangabrieljun...ngpositions.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.swingacademy.com/forums/yaf_postsm868_The-9-Positions-of-the-Golf-Swing.aspx"]http://www.swingacad...Golf-Swing.aspx[/url]
[/quote]

Something like that, and biggest misleaders of the game.

As far these things are thought at 2D and by positions and plane, nothing gonna happen. Those things are just hiding the most relevant things and makes us to see some things we use to. Not those what we should.

I perfectly understand how hard it is to change everything in the way we see that, but it has to be done.
[/quote]

Yep...understood Tee, but I want to know about this P-stuff so I can know what a guy is talking about when he says "You hold your PA2 till your PA18 gets under your PA323, then you unc0ck your PA6 so its supinated and deviated by the derivitave of the exponent of PA16."

I don't do PAs in my swing. Just physical feelings. I do plan to teach this golf swing stuff someday and I gotta be able to talk the PA language to the masses. But I'll probably end up inventing my own golf language anway.
[/quote]

These appear to be the Morad p's.

[tembolo1284]

ben hogan swing project should read up on TGM too for the PAs.

And he also needs to tell me how his ball flight is.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1353004375' post='5939049']
ben hogan swing project should read up on TGM too for the PAs.

And he also needs to tell me how his ball flight is.
[/quote]

Long ago, he said he was only in this to look like Hogan, and couldn't care less about ball flight, which is why it doesn't bother me in the least to hijack this thread. LOL

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1353006853' post='5939243']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1353004375' post='5939049']
ben hogan swing project should read up on TGM too for the PAs.

And he also needs to tell me how his ball flight is.
[/quote]

Long ago, he said he was only in this to look like Hogan, and couldn't care less about ball flight, which is why it doesn't bother me in the least to hijack this thread. LOL
[/quote]

He Hehe...Tembo will always ask me about the ball flight lol. I promised to keep him updated on my ball flight and he made me promise to keep the secret a secret.

My ball flight seems about the same as when I first started all this swing rebuild stuff. Only real difference is that I can hear the ball fizz as it flies away plus its a little higher. And that makes me curious cause I'm not swinging full speed at all. Probably hitting it at 40-50% power. And with no right foot thrust yet. All of them are straight or fade. I have never hit a draw except on 5-21-2007 when I first picked up a club (theres a video on my youtube channel). But MizunoJoe is absolutely right......I personally have no concern about how the ball flies; I just want it to be playable so I can hit it again.

[Stryker]

After you are done with Hogan, can you do Furyk next?



Couldn't resist interesting thread though.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1353011593' post='5939591']
After you are done with Hogan, can you do Furyk next?



Couldn't resist interesting thread though.
[/quote]

Yes, Furyk is on the list already. As well as Trevino and Couples and anybody else that has an intresting-looking swing.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3kh0bjlYX0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3kh0bjlYX0[/url]

[crapula]

PA2- Power Accumulator 2.

Hinging and unhinging of left (or lead) wrist.


http://www.gothamgolfblog.com/2009/12/power-accumulators.html

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1353028064' post='5940781']
PA2- Power Accumulator 2.

Hinging and unhinging of left (or lead) wrist.


[url="http://www.gothamgolfblog.com/2009/12/power-accumulators.html"]http://www.gothamgol...cumulators.html[/url]
[/quote]

Funny that you guys are discussing/analyzing the left wrist. I've never thought about what my left wrist does during the swing.

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

I'm not physically working on this part of the swing yet, but theorizing about it Is always fun. Looking forward to adding the right foot thrust.

I remember experimenting with the right foot back in Take 25. For a while now, I have been purposefully not thrusting anything. Just kind of rolling the right foot thru. I want to know what it looks like and feels like for a person to have a rolling foot instead of a driving/thrusting foot. I still have a bunch of other things to tweek before I get to the thrusty part.

His right foot thrusts and right heel raises well before impact. Mine begins to raise well after impact. Gonna be fun workin on this swing dance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=FRHI0NeghAQ

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='Ben Hogan Swing Project' timestamp='1353037482' post='5941489']
I'm not physically working on this part of the swing yet, but theorizing about it Is always fun. Looking forward to adding the right foot thrust.

I remember experimenting with the right foot back in Take 25. For a while now, I have been purposefully not thrusting anything. Just kind of rolling the right foot thru. I want to know what it looks like and feels like for a person to have a rolling foot instead of a driving/thrusting foot. I still have a bunch of other things to tweek before I get to the thrusty part.

His right foot thrusts and right heel raises well before impact. Mine begins to raise well after impact. Gonna be fun workin on this swing dance!

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=FRHI0NeghAQ[/media]
[/quote]

The earlier your heel comes up the more you preset everything to get steeper/go left. Thats one of my issues. Im trying to hit underplane push hooks from a closed stance right now. Can we trade right foots? lol

Watch the right foot in these. Tough to make a change like this and needs to be calm easy swings. The last 2 wedge shots in the vid moved 5-7 yards rights to left and were only 70 yard shots. Everything else is a straight push I fall out of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbx76BvYO8E

[Ben Hogan Swing Project]

Ping,

In the last 2 shots, I see the front of your right foot raise. Are you wanting to push off the ball or roll the heel thru? Just wondering what your dynamic goal is.