Utility iron shaft dilemma, 100-110g Ventus HB Black vs. Axiom vs. other

[g_nw]

In need of a knowledgeable resource for a consult:

• I’m fitted into Ventus TR Black 6X 7X 8X, for D 3w 5w respectively — love the profile
• I’m fitted into Axiom 125X in 4-pw (P7MC) — absolutely stripe it with this shaft profile
  • Bit heavy weight for a utility
  • I like the heavier shaft weight for the sensation of controlling my path
• Aggressive transition; pretty good ballstriker
• Driver SS around 110mph
• Wanting to build a 3i utility as a hot/chasing tee club and an option for long par 3s (and 5s)
  • Will build either: P-UDI or Srixon MKII @ 20*
  • Will swap between 3i and 5w depending on where I’m playing/conditions

 

I’ve tinkered over time with utilities but I’m stumped:

• Ventus Black HB 9TX in Srixon MKII 18*,
  • was built too long and I didn’t appreciate the sole width at the time, thought I needed a thinner sole. Felt clunky (due to length in retrospect).
  • at the time I felt the shaft weight was too different than my Axioms, always had that in mind while I owned it
• Axiom 105X (to address the weight) built in P770 3i (to address the sole shape blend into my P7MCs)
  • gapped beautifully to 4i but I was intending to have a hotter/chasing tee club
• Ventus Blue HB 10X in Srixon MKII 18*
  • didn’t get along well with the Blue profile, noticeably looser feel than Black or Axiom

 

Comparing hybrid shafts vs. Axiom 105X, I’ve read in several threads that a hybrid shaft is the way to go in a utility (I assume for launch?). Admittedly, I am a bit worried that the Black HB 10TX (no X is offered) is a bit firmer than ideal.

 

In a 3-iron utility, given the above: would a Black HB 10TX (105g) or Axiom 105X fit the bill, given the information I’m providing. Is there a comparable/recommended 100-110g X hybrid alternative with similar profile to Axiom (and my woods) that would be more suitable?

 

I would of course agree I should be fitted rather than buy to try, but it’s a 2h drive to my trusted fitter — would like to handle this one club as a project 🙂

[gdb99]

I would send the above post to your fitter in an email. 

[Sabinrhee]

I have a 2024 Ventus 6x (tipped 1 inch) driver and 8x (tipped 1.5 inch) 3 wood. Driver SS is 120. I have an apex pro 3 iron at 20 loft. My 4-PW has x100. My goal was to find a shaft to produce 10 launch and 4000 spin. X100 was too low launch and spin. The Ventus black 10tx was too low launch and spin. The Ventus blue 10x was too low launch (around 9) and correct spin. 
I also tried the Nippon GOST shaft 105 TX it has correct launch and spin but felt overly stiff and CPM was 326. (X100 was 307). I think Nippon 105x would’ve fit me better but then launch and spin would go higher. The CPM for Ventus black was 305 and blue was 283. The total weight of irons with the Ventus shaft was only 19 grams lighter than x100 I think because they had to add weight to the head. 

[phizzy30]

I have the Ventus Black HB 9TX in hybrid and KBS hybrid proto 105X in my driving iron.  SS is 118-120 with driver with aggressive transition.  I've tested the Axiom 105X and it's more in line with the Blue HB profile in terms of launch/spin, IMO.  I'd recommend going with the Black HB unless of course that's not giving your enough launch and spin.  If that's the case, I'd move onto something like the KBS hybrid proto which is more linear in feel like the Black HB but launches higher and spins a touch more which is what I needed for driving iron.  IZ HY is also another option that's pretty linear and similar to the KBS hybrid proto with maybe a touch more feel.     

Edited May 11 by phizzy30

[Valtiel]

Between the options you listed, if it were me i'd be looking at it like this:

- P-UDI with the Axiom 105x - This head will definitely be more conducive to the "flat/hot/chasing" sort of flight and IMO might be overkill in that department with the stiffer Ventus Black HB shaft, but this will depend on your delivery. The only downside to this build would be its potential as an approach club as this category of Taylormade UDI wants to spin low and chase. Unbeatable tee clubs, not as versatile elsewhere unless your delivery is particularly high spin. 

- Srixon ZX MKII with the Ventus Black HB - I am biased here obviously, but IMO these DI's are going to be more versatile with the right shaft. They will naturally fly higher because of the head design/CG location, but bending them slightly strong and using a stout shaft like the Ventus Black HB can flatten that out. Ball speed wise these heads are very hot, i've always gotten a couple MPH more out of these than many competing heads (TM and Srixon are always at the top for me) and the ability to hotmelt them edges TM in the feel/sound category. This setup would definitely be more versatile overall. 

[Pnwpingi210]

2 hours ago, Sabinrhee said:

I have a 2024 Ventus 6x (tipped 1 inch) driver and 8x (tipped 1.5 inch) 3 wood. Driver SS is 120. I have an apex pro 3 iron at 20 loft. My 4-PW has x100. My goal was to find a shaft to produce 10 launch and 4000 spin. X100 was too low launch and spin. The Ventus black 10tx was too low launch and spin. The Ventus blue 10x was too low launch (around 9) and correct spin. 
I also tried the Nippon GOST shaft 105 TX it has correct launch and spin but felt overly stiff and CPM was 326. (X100 was 307). I think Nippon 105x would’ve fit me better but then launch and spin would go higher. The CPM for Ventus black was 305 and blue was 283. The total weight of irons with the Ventus shaft was only 19 grams lighter than x100 I think because they had to add weight to the head. 

You have similar speed and similar builds in most of your equipment to scheffler.  He plays the nippons gost in x flex (not tx) in his 3 utility iron.  Absolute weapon for him

[Valtiel]

32 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

You have similar speed and similar builds in most of your equipment to scheffler.  He plays the nippons gost in x flex (not tx) in his 3 utility iron.  Absolute weapon for him

I actually recently got ahold of that same shaft, I forgot to weigh it but i'm pretty sure it's actually a prototype version of the Hybrid Tour X retail shaft, not the standard X-Flex. Definitely a weapon though, no question there. 

Edited May 10 by Valtiel

[Pnwpingi210]

3 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

I actually recently got ahold of that same shaft, I forgot to weigh it but i'm pretty sure it's actually a prototype version of the Hybrid Tour X retail shaft, not the standard X-Flex. Definitely a weapon though, no question there. 

You might be right.  I’m looking to pick one up to throw in my 3 iron.  Here is what I was going off in a recent witb

 

 

[g_nw]

1 minute ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

You might be right.  I’m looking to pick one up to throw in my 3 iron.  Here is what I was going off in a recent witb

 

 

 

🥵

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

Anecdotally between Axiom 105X and VHB Black 10TX...

 

Read a ton of info on here about Axiom and I felt good about hearing it labeled as "stable" (which I think it is), but after building it up in my ZXu I didn't feel like I could cut loose at full speed and trust it, even in the honeymoon period.  Slowing transition and easing off on the release a bit worked best for me with this shaft, but I was getting high (100+ft) traj. and a good bit of spin in a 22.5* utility iron.  Ball flight just didn't suit my eye and I didn't feel like I could deliver the amount of speed I wanted to to get the distance I was looking for (about 5-10 yards shorter than what I was hoping for).  I had to time the release just right to get the club to turn over properly; if I didn't, I'd push spinny blocks out to the right.  Mind you, I effectively "hard stepped" by putting one of the MP irons into my utility and tipped it a half inch, and it was still not quite right.

 

So I'm going into VHB Black 10TX.  Couple demo swings I took felt nice.  I was afraid of it, originally.  I'm not the fastest with the driver; technically, I'm a bit of a S/X tweener - On course, I can drop down to 105 and dial it up to about 112 at max effort, but I do play 70g TX in driver and 80g TX in FW, and X100s in irons.  My swing faults often stem from getting too quick - and I am very aggressive in transition to begin with.  Weight and (tip) stiffness take my goonish swing and make it playable.

 

Tom Kim plays VHB Black 10TX, in a 2 iron of all clubs, and he's 147th on tour in CHS (112.79).

 

Getting the tipping right is still an important factor for me and I've decided to work with my club guy (rather than take this one on, myself), but I'm ready to stop being afraid of 10TX and put some faith in it and myself.  I understand the launch/spin risks, but I feel like I can swing freely with this shaft in ways I wasn't confident with Axiom.  If trajectory is too low, I plan to adjust loft on the iron head itself to address it.  As a disclaimer, I plan to play this shaft short with a heavyish SW (D3ish @38.25"), so I've got some factors at play which may promote just a touch more deflection.

 

I can very much be in my own head about my equipment and it's nice to hear experiences from others to confirm/challenge what's in my head.  I hope my anecdote is at least mildly helpful in some way.  Best of luck in your search.

Edited May 10 by Poor Mans Ty Webb
Specified Utility Model.

[AmateurAmateur]

The Accra TZFive DI is a good alternative to both the Axiom/Ventus conversation. Maybe closer to axiom than to Ventus, but still has a similar feel to it. The TZSix DI is a bit closer to a Ventus Red with a bit more tip activity- and I found neither of them played similar to a ventus blue. 

Worth looking into. 

Have played all three shafts and like the Ventus the best but could get along with any of them if weighted and built correctly.

[AmateurAmateur]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Between the options you listed, if it were me i'd be looking at it like this:

- P-UDI with the Axiom 105x - This head will definitely be more conducive to the "flat/hot/chasing" sort of flight and IMO might be overkill in that department with the stiffer Ventus Black HB shaft, but this will depend on your delivery. The only downside to this build would be its potential as an approach club as this category of Taylormade UDI wants to spin low and chase. Unbeatable tee clubs, not as versatile elsewhere unless your delivery is particularly high spin. 

- Srixon ZX MKII with the Ventus Black HB - I am biased here obviously, but IMO these DI's are going to be more versatile with the right shaft. They will naturally fly higher because of the head design/CG location, but bending them slightly strong and using a stout shaft like the Ventus Black HB can flatten that out. Ball speed wise these heads are very hot, i've always gotten a couple MPH more out of these than many competing heads (TM and Srixon are always at the top for me) and the ability to hotmelt them edges TM in the feel/sound category. This setup would definitely be more versatile overall. 

Agree with this assessment of the Srixon driving irons. The only Taylormade driving irons I have been able to get a descent angle with that is worth playing are the DHY models that look too chunky to my eye. The srixon is also faster off the face at the same loft as other models tested which allowed me to bend a 4 iron utility strong and get enough height I can hold greens with it, but also play it at a distance similar to what I am looking for. A great head. 

[Lord Helmet]

I just went with my iron shaft setup, worked best for me.  Kept the same feel, which is important to me.  G luck.

 

I did go straight in with the 5.5 instead of hardstepping like the rest of my set.  Touch softer, not much, but the space between my ears knows its there.

Edited May 10 by Lord Helmet

[g_nw]

21 minutes ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

I can very much be in my own head about my equipment and it's nice to hear experiences from others to confirm/challenge what's in my head.

 

Your 105X comments resonated, thanks for confirming 🍻

[ClayNotTon]

I'm down a weight class from you in shafts in some regards, but had been playing TR 6X driver, 7X in woods, Axiom 105X in irons (P770 4-P, P790 3i 0.5 weak to match P770). Working through replacing my 3i now as not getting the height out of it and need to consolidate 3W/5W/3i down to 2 clubs for an extra wedge. 4i staying in the 110-115ft apex, 3i more around ~85ft right now. P-UDI with some 80/90g hybrid shafts was better, the P-DHY ended up being best however. I do not like the way that it looks, but had to order one after how it performed in a fitting. Ended up getting fit into more mid launch profiles for driver/woods (AD VF) and hit the Smoke RDX Red hybrid the best in P-UDI, P-DHY and Qi10 Tour Hybrid. I think something like a 90X Axiom hybrid would be perfect for me, but does not exist. ZX MK II and P UDI performed basically identical to me. Agree with comments on Ventus Blue Hybrid compared to Black. P790 3i and P-UDI performed differently enough to me, but not apples to apples as couldn't try axiom in the utilities at my fit.

 

Overall perhaps try the Black 10TX in the P-UDI. I think it will be a bit hotter than the P770 3i, if the shaft suits you well but not able to get enough height/spin for the Par 3s/Par 5s perhaps give the P-DHY a try. I never thought I would say that before this last Tuesday, but I have been possibly converted, despite the chunkiness. Should get mine in early next week and actually put it through the paces on the course. The ~245y carry club is fairly important to me, I've got a 235y fairly up hill Par 3 and seem to find myself in that 230-250 range into 3/4 Par 5s at the course I play most often. For me the difference in the two was 20ft of apex and almost 1k spin but only 1.5yds diff of carry. It'll be 5-10y of roll shorter off the tee, but if I can hold greens in the other scenarios I'll take it. Which you value is up to you 😉

[ARSM1932]

I currently play a Fujikura Ventus HB Black 10 TX in my 17 degree hybrid and its an amazing combo but it may not be for everyone but I also quite liked the Ventus HB Black 10 TX when I tried it in a 3 iron, recently I built up another 3 iron with a Fujikura Pro 115 Tour Spec X and am going to test it out over the next few weeks but my initial results are excellent, the Pro 115 is 117 grams and is slightly softer than the Ventus HB Black 10 TX but as its lighter than my PX iron shafts I don't think that it plays overly heavy but there is also a Pro 95 Tour Spec X at 97.5 grams which Brooks plays in his Nike 3 iron.

[Valtiel]

11 minutes ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

Tom Kim plays VHB Black 10TX, in a 2 iron of all clubs, and he's 147th on tour in CHS (112.79).

 

As a disclaimer, I plan to play this shaft short with a heavyish SW (D3ish @38.25"), so I've got some factors at play which may promote just a touch more deflection.

 

I can very much be in my own head about my equipment and it's nice to hear experiences from others to confirm/challenge what's in my head.  I hope my anecdote is at least mildly helpful in some way.  Best of luck in your search.

I actually posted something about that recently and it fits with what I implied above; if your delivery results in higher launch/spin then you can be lower speed but still play rebar. See Tom Kim/Steve Stricker. 

I was also just discussing with the OP the merit of heavier heads + stiffer shaft profiles for feel purposes. I love how the Ventus Blacks feel with higher headweights as it gets them feeling livelier while still feeling extremely stable. 
 

1 minute ago, AmateurAmateur said:

Agree with this assessment of the Srixon driving irons. The only Taylormade driving irons I have been able to get a descent angle with that is worth playing are the DHY models that look too chunky to my eye. The srixon is also faster off the face at the same loft as other models tested which allowed me to bend a 4 iron utility strong and get enough height I can hold greens with it, but also play it at a distance similar to what I am looking for. A great head. 

Yup agreed. I spent months testing across dozens of sessions because I was skeptical about how good the Srixon numbers were and I wanted to make sure they were "real" if that makes sense. Every single time it was just a floor of 2-3mph faster than all equivalents, save for the P790s which were similar. The difference being that the Srixon has that speed while also launching noticeably higher, which is normally a tradeoff that just doesn't seem to exist here. Definitely all-timers in my eyes. 

[PNW]

1 hour ago, Poor Mans Ty Webb said:

Anecdotally between Axiom 105X and VHB Black 10TX...

 

Read a ton of info on here about Axiom and I felt good about hearing it labeled as "stable" (which I think it is), but after building it up in my ZXu I didn't feel like I could cut loose at full speed and trust it, even in the honeymoon period.  Slowing transition and easing off on the release a bit worked best for me with this shaft, but I was getting high (100+ft) traj. and a good bit of spin in a 22.5* utility iron.  Ball flight just didn't suit my eye and I didn't feel like I could deliver the amount of speed I wanted to to get the distance I was looking for (about 5-10 yards shorter than what I was hoping for).  I had to time the release just right to get the club to turn over properly; if I didn't, I'd push spinny blocks out to the right.  Mind you, I effectively "hard stepped" by putting one of the MP irons into my utility and tipped it a half inch, and it was still not quite right.

 

So I'm going into VHB Black 10TX.  Couple demo swings I took felt nice.  I was afraid of it, originally.  I'm not the fastest with the driver; technically, I'm a bit of a S/X tweener - On course, I can drop down to 105 and dial it up to about 112 at max effort, but I do play 70g TX in driver and 80g TX in FW, and X100s in irons.  My swing faults often stem from getting too quick - and I am very aggressive in transition to begin with.  Weight and (tip) stiffness take my goonish swing and make it playable.

 

Tom Kim plays VHB Black 10TX, in a 2 iron of all clubs, and he's 147th on tour in CHS (112.79).

 

Getting the tipping right is still an important factor for me and I've decided to work with my club guy (rather than take this one on, myself), but I'm ready to stop being afraid of 10TX and put some faith in it and myself.  I understand the launch/spin risks, but I feel like I can swing freely with this shaft in ways I wasn't confident with Axiom.  If trajectory is too low, I plan to adjust loft on the iron head itself to address it.  As a disclaimer, I plan to play this shaft short with a heavyish SW (D3ish @38.25"), so I've got some factors at play which may promote just a touch more deflection.

 

I can very much be in my own head about my equipment and it's nice to hear experiences from others to confirm/challenge what's in my head.  I hope my anecdote is at least mildly helpful in some way.  Best of luck in your search.

 

This was my experience as well with Axiom 105X in a Srixon 4 utility iron. I also have a Mizuno 2 utility with Ventus Black HB 9TX for comparison. Similar speed as well. 

 

@g_nwAnother option to consider especially if you go the Srixon route is MMT 105TX.

[g_nw]

Thanks for all of the feedback thus far, everyone. I’m learning a lot and really value this thread.

[PNW]

Another Srixon option would be TGI 110. Similar to KBS Hybrid Proto but cheaper and can come direct from Srixon. Linear and stable 

[Gtyler14]

I play a ventus black 6x driver, 8x fairway and 10tx in a di and it is the best DI shaft I’ve had. I have a ZX utility and now the 23 t200 utility. I switched from the zx because I liked the looks and less offset of the t200 so it was a minimal differences to get me to switch. The zx utility paired with a ventus black9/10tx is a great combo!