Ping G20 battle of the TFC-169 shafts, which one?!?

[SwingBlues]

***** And the winner is..........Post #11

Ok, currently I have the Ping G20 9.5* with the TFC-169 stiff shaft and I got my hands on the same spec head with the TFC-169D TOUR stiff shaft.

I bought the G20s based on the Foresight LM number at Roger Dunn, plus this G20 head is just sensationally forgiving and long even when it's slightly off center. However, I am wondering if I will be better served with the regular TFC-169D shaft instead of the Tour shaft.

As everyone in GolfWRX luvs number, these are mine, again, they are based on the Foresight LM:



Now, what bamboozling is that the Tour shaft is suppose to be lower launch and lower spin than the regular 169D. As I understand it, this is based on the Tour shaft having a stiffer tip. However, my numbers do not reflect that and it seems like the regular 169D has lower overall spin and more distance with the active tip?!?!?

Whats going on here?

Are the Foresight LM numbers way off? Should I keep the regular 169D because at this time, the regular 169D is just creaming the Tour version?

Last question: I also have a X flex BB sitting here, should I even bother to bang this shaft into this G20 head? The G20 is a heavier head which Ping has fixed by making the counter balanced 169D shafts, so putting in a BB may result in a heavier swing weight.

I would appreciate your thoughts and comments.

TIA!

[SwingBlues]

Bump. Where are all the LM & shaft experts?

[bellairemi]

What are you seeing on the course? Did you have the lofts of each measured? Looks like the tour stiff head may have more loft to me.








[quote name='SwingBlues' timestamp='1325899241' post='4039433']
Ok, currently I have the Ping G20 9.5* with the TFC-169 stiff shaft and I got my hands on the same spec head with the TFC-169D TOUR stiff shaft.

I bought the G20s based on the Foresight LM number at Roger Dunn, plus this G20 head is just sensationally forgiving and long even when it's slightly off center. However, I am wondering if I will be better served with the regular TFC-169D shaft instead of the Tour shaft.

As everyone in GolfWRX luvs number, these are mine, again, they are based on the Foresight LM:

[attachment=973017:G20_169_vs_169Tour.jpg]

Now, what bamboozling is that the Tour shaft is suppose to be lower launch and lower spin than the regular 169D. As I understand it, this is based on the Tour shaft having a stiffer tip. However, my numbers do not reflect that and it seems like the regular 169D has lower overall spin and more distance with the active tip?!?!?

Whats going on here?

Are the Foresight LM numbers way off? Should I keep the regular 169D because at this time, the regular 169D is just creaming the Tour version?

Last question: I also have a X flex BB sitting here, should I even bother to bang this shaft into this G20 head? The G20 is a heavier head which Ping has fixed by making the counter balanced 169D shafts, so putting in a BB may result in a heavier swing weight.

I would appreciate your thoughts and comments.

TIA!
[/quote]

[Asleep]

[quote name='bellairemi' timestamp='1325962493' post='4041975']
What are you seeing on the course?[/quote]
I'd take ^this into consideration, but you're better off with the non-Tour shaft.

[SwingBlues]

[quote name='Asleep' timestamp='1325963180' post='4042029']
[quote name='bellairemi' timestamp='1325962493' post='4041975']
What are you seeing on the course?[/quote]
I'd take ^this into consideration, but you're better off with the non-Tour shaft.
[/quote]

Thanks bellairemi and Asleep for the input guys, much appreciated.

On the course with the regular TFC-169D, I am seeing a mid-high draw with not much roll out. Sometimes it balloons and sometimes it launches high, peaks and straight and drops. Its harder for me to cut this regular shaft but it's not a crazy draw though (not like the ones I get off my backup SFTP with the 63s x5ct tipped 1/2"). While with the 169 Tour, it is giving me more of a higher cut trajectory. Just the complete opposite to what I was expecting from the Tour shaft.

I was not going to invest anymore in a more exotic shaft except that I already have an uncut Blueboard X-flex sitting here so I am throwing it out to the GolfWRX forum to see if the experts here would think it may provide a lower flight. I know the BB is a higher launch than say an Ahina/WB but not sure how much more launch than the regular 169D shaft in this head, or if they are the same. The BB is very, very smooth though. I don't think the BB is a stiff tipped though, right?

[bellairemi]

The BB is not stiff tipped - more of a mid trajectory shaft. I really do not know how the new Ping shafts launch. If I were you, I would have the loft of the two heads checked.




[quote name='SwingBlues' timestamp='1325982707' post='4043121']
[quote name='Asleep' timestamp='1325963180' post='4042029']
[quote name='bellairemi' timestamp='1325962493' post='4041975']
What are you seeing on the course?[/quote]
I'd take ^this into consideration, but you're better off with the non-Tour shaft.
[/quote]

Thanks bellairemi and Asleep for the input guys, much appreciated.

On the course with the regular TFC-169D, I am seeing a mid-high draw with not much roll out. Sometimes it balloons and sometimes it launches high, peaks and straight and drops. Its harder for me to cut this regular shaft but it's not a crazy draw though (not like the ones I get off my backup SFTP with the 63s x5ct tipped 1/2"). While with the 169 Tour, it is giving me more of a higher cut trajectory. Just the complete opposite to what I was expecting from the Tour shaft.

I was not going to invest anymore in a more exotic shaft except that I already have an uncut Blueboard X-flex sitting here so I am throwing it out to the GolfWRX forum to see if the experts here would think it may provide a lower flight. I know the BB is a higher launch than say an Ahina/WB but not sure how much more launch than the regular 169D shaft in this head, or if they are the same. The BB is very, very smooth though. I don't think the BB is a stiff tipped though, right?
[/quote]

[lbhitter]

I agree with the other posters, you have to measure the lofts on the heads to ensure they are identical to know you are getting a true comparison. I am playing a G20 Driver which I had digitally lofted to 9.5*, and it quite differently than the 9.5* I tested at a demo day. I find the TFC-169D Tour shaft plays as advertised -- stiffer tip, slightly lower launch, and slightly lower spin. With the TFC-169 shaft, I was turning the ball over too much. The TFC-169D Tour solved that problem, and I can hit a dependable 5-10yd draw.

Hope this helps.

LB

[SwingBlues]

Thanks, I'll get 'em checked out next week. Pings are infamously known for understating the lofts on their drivers.

[makaveli]

[quote name='lbhitter' timestamp='1326028776' post='4045093']
I agree with the other posters, you have to measure the lofts on the heads to ensure they are identical to know you are getting a true comparison. I am playing a G20 Driver which I had digitally lofted to 9.5*, and it quite differently than the 9.5* I tested at a demo day. I find the TFC-169D shaft plays as advertised -- stiffer tip, slightly lower launch, and slightly lower spin. With the TFC-169 shaft, I was turning the ball over too much. The TFC-169D solved that problem, and I can hit a dependable 5-10yd draw.

Hope this helps.

LB
[/quote]

They are both TFC 169D except one is a Tour and the other is not. I assume the D in your post is the Tour?

Just wanted to clarify thats all.

[SwingBlues]

[quote name='makaveli' timestamp='1326254287' post='4062567']
[quote name='lbhitter' timestamp='1326028776' post='4045093']
I agree with the other posters, you have to measure the lofts on the heads to ensure they are identical to know you are getting a true comparison. I am playing a G20 Driver which I had digitally lofted to 9.5*, and it quite differently than the 9.5* I tested at a demo day. I find the TFC-169D shaft plays as advertised -- stiffer tip, slightly lower launch, and slightly lower spin. With the TFC-169 shaft, I was turning the ball over too much. The TFC-169D solved that problem, and I can hit a dependable 5-10yd draw.

Hope this helps.

LB
[/quote]

They are both TFC 169D except one is a Tour and the other is not. I assume the D in your post is the Tour?

Just wanted to clarify thats all.
[/quote]

Correct, the first stat is the "regular" TFC-169D and the second one is the "Tour" version. Both heads stamped 9.5 but obviously [i]slightly [/i]different loft as the number seem to indicate.

[SwingBlues]

[size="4"][b]....Winner is the Diamana Blueboard 63 x5ct x-flex, tipped 1/2", read on:[/b][/size]


Ok, so I went down to Roger Dunn at North Hollywood and discussed my stats and swing with Kyle. In the end, we decided to bang in the brand new Blueboard 63 x5ct x-flex that I had but Kyle insisted that it be tipped 1/2" to tighten the tip a tad and "soften" my worse shot that is a dreaded massive 200+ draw that is out of control. I rarely slice but I do push on occasion. I returned the G20 9.5 with the TFC-169D Tour shaft and I then gave Kyle my remaining G20 9.5 with the regular TFC-169D driver (I liked the setup a little better as well) and he went to work on it.

So this is the updated LM stats for my G20 with the BB x-flex later this afternoon:

[attachment=981445:G20_stats_20120113.jpg]

The distance improved with the BB, lower spin and lower launch and SS is up just a tad (but really 1mph is nothing as it's consistent with the other setups). As such it is longer but the dispersion is not as good as the regular TFC-169D. However, in hindsight as I am typing this post, I was in a go-get-em mood with the BB G20 so it's not surprising. However, what I have always loved with the BB is the smmmmoooothhhhneessss of the shaft.

For fun, I also found a Cleveland Black with a MIyazaki Kusala White in the 56X flex while I was perusing RD. Man, oh man, was this a GORGEOUS shaft! Pure beauty! And my LM numbers ain't too bad either and this is one low spin shaft as well, a little tigher dispersion, similar to the regular TFC-169 but draw. Feel of the shaft was smooth, not as buttery as the BB. However, I think the Cleveland Black head is not as forgiving as the G20 so I am giving up something here but.....who knows....if the hoe in me has anything to do with this, there could be a G20 re-shaft to a Kusala White 56X for the future, just look at those numbers...

[makaveli]

I had a G10 with a BB 63 g35t because the G10 has a .350 tip and I loved it until I got in a wreck with my bag in the trunk. Opened up the trunk and it was snapped in half, WTF? Insurance co. cut me a check for a new BB, $286! Anyway, I ended up with the G20 TFC 169D Tour but now you got me thinking, oh no!

Is the G20 a .335 or .350 tip? Assuming Ping stuck with .350 was it easy installing the BB x5ct?

Even with all of these new graphite driver shafts coming out every 5 minutes MRC is still the best. They feel great and look clean, no need for a bunch of graphics if can't perform.

[SwingBlues]

[quote name='makaveli' timestamp='1326510932' post='4081343']
I had a G10 with a BB 63 g35t because the G10 has a .350 tip and I loved it until I got in a wreck with my bag in the trunk. Opened up the trunk and it was snapped in half, WTF? Insurance co. cut me a check for a new BB, $286! Anyway, I ended up with the G20 TFC 169D Tour but now you got me thinking, oh no!

Is the G20 a .335 or .350 tip? Assuming Ping stuck with .350 was it easy installing the BB x5ct?

Even with all of these new graphite driver shafts coming out every 5 minutes MRC is still the best. They feel great and look clean, no need for a bunch of graphics if can't perform.
[/quote]

The G20 is a .350 tipped like all past G series. Kyle had no problem sticking in the .335 BB x5ct and he did a superb job, it's a very, very clean install. Be careful, it's a deep insert, about 1/4" more than usual so not sure how much tipping you need but it's close if you got to go an inch of tipping.

Originally I got the BB for my R11 but that's been shelved for the time being. I am even thinking about selling the R11 head, may be later this week. The G20 just MURDERS the R11 in distance and more so, in the forgiveness department...no comparison and I had the best shafts in there including an Ahina, an Eclipse and even a BB g35t.

But I'll tell you what makaveli, go check out the graphics on the Kusala White, it is drop dead gorgeous, one of the best looking shafts I have ever seen. Highly recommend you check it out.

Totally agree...I always remember the 1st BB I hit in a Rapture 9*...so freaking smooth and long too.

[keithrichards]

Interesting stuff

[SwingBlues]

[quote name='keithrichards' timestamp='1326564436' post='4083927']
Interesting stuff
[/quote]

No worries, hope this helps. There is a poster here whose going to shaft a Kusala White 56X into a G20 head, hope he can get some LM, this is one doozie of a shaft. In the meantime, time to enjoy!

[lbhitter]

[quote name='makaveli' timestamp='1326254287' post='4062567']
[quote name='lbhitter' timestamp='1326028776' post='4045093']
I agree with the other posters, you have to measure the lofts on the heads to ensure they are identical to know you are getting a true comparison. I am playing a G20 Driver which I had digitally lofted to 9.5*, and it quite differently than the 9.5* I tested at a demo day. I find the TFC-169D shaft plays as advertised -- stiffer tip, slightly lower launch, and slightly lower spin. With the TFC-169 shaft, I was turning the ball over too much. The TFC-169D solved that problem, and I can hit a dependable 5-10yd draw.

Hope this helps.

LB
[/quote]

They are both TFC 169D except one is a Tour and the other is not. I assume the D in your post is the Tour?

Just wanted to clarify thats all.
[/quote]

I corrected the post. Thanks for pointing our this mistake, much appreciated.
LB

[SwingBlues]

Wow, the honeymoon is over...and I have to say....>FREAKING< long baby!

I played today, and just hitting the snot out of this G20 BB combo. I did put an "F" shotmaker into it and that's helped a lot with the wildness. No loss of distance but it controls my 200+ yard right left draw that I sometimes get when my body is out of sync.

I am really stunned by how good this driver is and the Blueboard is such a super smooth shaft with a nice launch. Even in the X flex and tipped 1/2", it is not stout at all, at least not compared to say, a PM702 that I have a my Cobra L4VX. I also figured out that if I need a lower launch, tee the ball a tad lower, helps a lot in the wind and the sound gets even better!

Truly a long combo for my swing.

I still have a G10 7.5*, owned and BSTed a G10 9* and a G15 9* and even a G15 7.5* and by far, the G20 is the best driver I've ever owned from Ping in terms of sound, forgiveness and length.


...and you know what, it's such a "simple" driver compared to the R11s, FIT or RBZ. No fancy FCT, ASP C1-A2 etc

[Dat_Dude]

I was looking into this combo but its not listed in the PING Custom Options? Only the Whiteboard seems to be and I think that is too much shaft for me. Can you just take any BB and put it in the G20?

[SwingBlues]

[quote name='Dat_Dude' timestamp='1334372951' post='4718700']
I was looking into this combo but its not listed in the PING Custom Options? Only the Whiteboard seems to be and I think that is too much shaft for me. Can you just take any BB and put it in the G20?
[/quote]

Yes - my BB is actually a .335 tip (x5ct) and as we know, the G20 and Ping hosels are .350 so you need to find a competent clubmaker to shim and put in the BB. Mine was done by Kyle at Roger Dunn - top bloke and class work and it's perfect. And it's been tipped 1/2" and spined.

[Dat_Dude]

[quote name='SwingBlues' timestamp='1335326040' post='4785056']
[quote name='Dat_Dude' timestamp='1334372951' post='4718700']
I was looking into this combo but its not listed in the PING Custom Options? Only the Whiteboard seems to be and I think that is too much shaft for me. Can you just take any BB and put it in the G20?
[/quote]

Yes - my BB is actually a .335 tip (x5ct) and as we know, the G20 and Ping hosels are .350 so you need to find a competent clubmaker to shim and put in the BB. Mine was done by Kyle at Roger Dunn - top bloke and class work and it's perfect. And it's been tipped 1/2" and spined.
[/quote]

So the reason I am asking is I have a BB in a Rapture V2 currently. That is not my current gamer, but was thinking about pulling the shaft and using it in a G20. Do you foresee any issues with that?

[LongJohn6284]

dat dude- as far as i know the shaft in the rapture will be a .350 tip and should go into the g20 with zero problems...no shim or anything needed

[osu91gobucks]

[quote name='SwingBlues' timestamp='1335326040' post='4785056']
[quote name='Dat_Dude' timestamp='1334372951' post='4718700']
I was looking into this combo but its not listed in the PING Custom Options? Only the Whiteboard seems to be and I think that is too much shaft for me. Can you just take any BB and put it in the G20?
[/quote]

Yes - my BB is actually a .335 tip (x5ct) and as we know, the G20 and Ping hosels are .350 so you need to find a competent clubmaker to shim and put in the BB. Mine was done by Kyle at Roger Dunn - top bloke and class work and it's perfect. And it's been tipped 1/2" and spined.
[/quote]

My numbers are almost identical to yours and I play the Ping Tour shaft as well, so I read your post with great interest. Our numbers supposedly will not support a carry and roll out like those you are seeing but as I'm always looking for the magic combo, I'm game to give it a try. My question to you is how are you handling the X flex late in the round. I've tied 70-something gram X before and it was a bit much toward the end of the round. Perhaps the 60 gram would work for me. Are you still seeing the distance on less than firm fairways?

[kchuckb]

I have a question regarding the 2 TFC shafts. Do you guys think it would be harder to draw the ball with the tour shaft, as opposed to the non-tour version given the specs of each? I seem to be having trouble turning the ball over consistently with the tour in my 9.5. I was thinking about giving the non-tour a shot. Thanks.

[kchuckb]

I have a question regarding the 2 TFC shafts. Do you guys think it would be harder to draw the ball with the tour shaft, as opposed to the non-tour version given the specs of each? I seem to be having trouble turning the ball over consistently with the tour in my 9.5. I was thinking about giving the non-tour a shot. Thanks.

[jcosjrgolf]

[quote name='lbhitter' timestamp='1326028776' post='4045093']
I agree with the other posters, you have to measure the lofts on the heads to ensure they are identical to know you are getting a true comparison. I am playing a G20 Driver which I had digitally lofted to 9.5*, and it quite differently than the 9.5* I tested at a demo day. I find the TFC-169D Tour shaft plays as advertised -- stiffer tip, slightly lower launch, and slightly lower spin. With the TFC-169 shaft, I was turning the ball over too much. The TFC-169D Tour solved that problem, and I can hit a dependable 5-10yd draw.

Hope this helps.

LB
[/quote]

Is your digitally lofted 9.5 head stamped 8.5?
I have heard a 8.5 stamped head runs from ~9.2 up to 10.0 degrees of loft.

[SwingBlues]

[quote name='kchuckb' timestamp='1336397954' post='4864532']
I have a question regarding the 2 TFC shafts. Do you guys think it would be harder to draw the ball with the tour shaft, as opposed to the non-tour version given the specs of each? I seem to be having trouble turning the ball over consistently with the tour in my 9.5. I was thinking about giving the non-tour a shot. Thanks.
[/quote]

Not with my swing, the face on my G20 sits pretty much square or a teenie weenie closed so that helps. And on the other driver I was still able to release it, no sweat.

I still have the non-tour shaft after I reshafted with my BB, feel free to PM me if you want it.

[osu91gobucks]

Alternate theory on why this worked for original poster:

I immediately started experimenting with a similar combo. I have a 12 degree G15 with the new 169D Tour Stiff shaft. My ideal loft is 10.5. I make a stance adjustment to deloft it a bit. I can get a good flight with this combo. Not optimal, but good. I've got a 105mph swing speed and play to an 8.5. I typically hit the ball on the low center of the face. (The worst spot for killing spin.) So with this combo I get no roll out.

My buddy let me borrow his 9.5 G20 169D Tour X-Stiff club last weekend. The shaft is -1/2 shorter than standard. (ie. the i20 standard). The fairways were firm enough to get roll out but not baked. Anyway, I hit both drivers on good holes for testing. I measured with GPS. I hit the 9.5 combo 25 and 27 yards longer.

I think the shorter shaft helped for better contact, perhaps center high. The stiffer shaft and lower angle of descent gave me a ton of roll out. I hit the crap out of this combo. However, I had to have impeccable timing and I really had to concentrate to keep it in the ball park. This shaft brings the right side back into play for me. I found the "Stiff" shaft so much easier to control. The flex provides feel for last nanosecond corrections. I played with that combo for one more day and felt like I had to work a lot harder to hit the ball where I wanted.

So what am I going to do? I'm keeping the Stiff Ping 169D Tour shaft and getting a 10.5 head to split the difference. I'll continue working on improving my launch angle and hitting the driver face in the high center area. (See the Golf Digest Ultimate Driving Book. It talks about launch angle and spin based on where you strike the face.)

[300Drive]

[quote name='osu91gobucks' timestamp='1336344812' post='4861154']
[quote name='SwingBlues' timestamp='1335326040' post='4785056']
[quote name='Dat_Dude' timestamp='1334372951' post='4718700']
I was looking into this combo but its not listed in the PING Custom Options? Only the Whiteboard seems to be and I think that is too much shaft for me. Can you just take any BB and put it in the G20?
[/quote]

Yes - my BB is actually a .335 tip (x5ct) and as we know, the G20 and Ping hosels are .350 so you need to find a competent clubmaker to shim and put in the BB. Mine was done by Kyle at Roger Dunn - top bloke and class work and it's perfect. And it's been tipped 1/2" and spined.
[/quote]

My numbers are almost identical to yours and I play the Ping Tour shaft as well, so I read your post with great interest. Our numbers supposedly will not support a carry and roll out like those you are seeing but as I'm always looking for the magic combo, I'm game to give it a try. My question to you is how are you handling the X flex late in the round. I've tied 70-something gram X before and it was a bit much toward the end of the round. Perhaps the 60 gram would work for me. Are you still seeing the distance on less than firm fairways?
[/quote]

Agree with that. I've been testing the G20 exclusively in 4 seperate fittings on Trackman. My SS is consistently 105-108, depending on the day. I dont yet see numbers like yours. I am always 262+ carry, but cant quite averate 300 total, its always in the 292+ range on average. BTW, my smash factor is solid 1.49-1.50, launch is between 11-15, with spin between 2100-2400, so, I have solid numbers.

Anyway, I find the Tour in a stiff a great stock shaft, dispersions is not quite as good as in the DI 7x or Indigo 61x, but its a great stock shaft that I am only going to change out because of dispersion, not distance, because it can hang with any and everything I've tried.

[SwingBlues]

One thing I should have done was to get the 2 drivers digitally lofted but I do not have access to this, nor do I have access to Trackman but Foresight, I do - but its not mine. I have GPS measured the drives in actual course play and it's pretty close. Definitely the BB kills both 169Ds, which imo, are really, really good stock shafts. IMO, Ping makes great driver shafts, at least for my swing. For the record, I also have a G10 7.5* with the stock 129D and I am NOT touching this combo, it's perfect but its getting older. Occassionally I take her out for a spin, just to see what I am missing. Also, the fairways at the time were firm but the trajectory was what I really liked, peak and bore.

One thing though, the BB disperson, imo, is not as good as the x-flex RIP Phenom 65 I have in my RBZ Tour. These 2 driver combos are so close but my pro keeps saying to me to use the RBZ, better control with distance in his opinion. However, I know I have the longest measured GPS figures with the G20 BB, so for now, it's still RBZ but the G20 BB Is not going anywhere but my backup bag.

Now, I would luv to get my hands on the DI or even better - the White Kusala 56X. I've hit the Kusala White in the Cleveland Black and loved the feel of the shaft, pretty good numbers on the LM as well but I hated the head. So I figure if I BSTed enough of my un-used stuff, I'll get it one day.

osu91gobucks - I would stick with the 60 gram BB. I know exactly what you're talking about, I have a an S PM702 tipped a full inch in my L4V-X and that is a stout mf. Let us know how you go...

[makaveli]

ah yes the BB in the G20 must be incredible. now i just gotta find a g35t BB (stiff) and get it to play between 44.5" to 45" and were in business. if that G10 didn't break on me i would probably still be using it, like Westwood.

the tfc-169d tour thats currently in my G20 doesn't feel at all like that G10 did. i think the tfc-169d tour is too stout for my swing/tempo.