Please critique my swing. (2 handicap)

[grumpy84]

7 iron swing head on and DTL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2suNbI_Lp8E&context=C3647e60ADOEgsToPDskKtsQ0mJfqaFKRhy_ZHbwY-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFWW6EhCrvk&context=C3647e60ADOEgsToPDskKtsQ0mJfqaFKRhy_ZHbwY-

Totally self taught, never had a lesson. Hover around a 2 handicap and consider my ball striking to be a stronger point of my game.

I know my back swing is rather short, I'm working on gaining flexibility to help facilitate a better/bigger turn. I have rather quick tempo and transistion and cannot seem to make my swing work when I try to slow things down. Truthfully I don't know if if should be trying to as it gets ugly when I try haha. I Know my left hand grip is rather strong as well and sometimes gets me in trouble. Problem is whenever I weaken my left hand grip i tend to flip more at impact and hit high fluttering balls to the right as I have harder time squaring the face. I've also noticed the heel of my right foot comes off the ground slightly on my downswing well before impact and I'm not sure if this is good or bad.

Any tips or pointer is greatly appreciated. I'm open to hear any suggestions or comments you may have.

[tfish]

self taught, 2 handicap....i'd be wary of trying to change too much, especially if you consider ballstriking to be the stronger point of your game. if you have a big miss that comes up at bad times, or a consistent miss that's bugging you....then there's always stuff to work on. but don't change just to change.

you're probably pushing off the ball of your right foot to create some power in the downswing...it's more ideal to have it roll over as you pivot with almost all your weight on your left heel.
i'd take the club head more outside in the takeaway with less wrist rollover....looks like you play a draw and having the club head less inside should straighten the path out, and then focus on getting your back to face the target at the top. but again, don't do it for aesthetic reasons if you're striping the ball as is and have a go to shot and know where it's gonna end up most of the time.

don't worry about tempo....lots of guys would love to have the speed you create.

[grumpy84]

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. I do push off my right foot a bit rather than a smooth pivot, something I need to work on. I've been working on taking the club a bit more outside with less wrist roll but its giving trouble. I do have a pretty predictable miss to the right when I fail to square the club while dipping the right shoulder. Overall I'm pretty happy with the progress I've made and will continue to to try and improve.

Thanks again.

[russc1597187869]

I am a huge fan of the Slicefixer swing.He starts students with the 9-3 swing ,which is only a bit shorter than the one that you are using
First the strong left grip is probably a good thing .do not ditch it at this time

swing snyopsis.
First, you take the club too inside in the takeaway and get the the club too far behind your body at the end of your backswing.Second you restrict your hip turn shortly after the start of your takeaway.This artificial restriction of your hip turn also restricts your shoulder turn and the length of your backswing.You start down out of position because of your backswing in a steep angle of attack with your right elbow too far behind your right hip..Your natural athleticism gets you into a decent impact position ,even though you are swinging too inside -out instead of the correct inside-square-inside
These might sound like a bunch of problems ,but if you setup better ,take the club back less inside and do not restrict the hip turn ,the downswing will improve a bunch

Setup suggestions
a. toe out your left foot 1/4 turn .this will facilitate rotation on the downswing
b.You need to setup with some hip tilt away from the target so that your lower and middle spine s are in alignment.then you can more easily rotate around this tilted spine.You do this by kicking your right knee down and in a bit a setup.this will also brace your right knee .The tilt of the spine away from the target is about 6-8 degrees
c .start the clubface back straight for the first 12 inches.try to make sure that there is no independent movement by the hands or wrists until about 7:30 with the clubface still facing the ball .
d Your takeaway should start with your right shoulder turning behind you .Shortly thereafter the hip will be pulled into the takeaway.Continue this turning of the hips and shoulders until the end of your takeaway.
e on the downswing just ry to pivot through to the finish

videos
1. youtube - Dan Whittaker -"setup", "clap hands drill"
2. youtube Dan whittaker-gothamgolffix#7 -towel drill @ 17:18

drills
Get a rod or old shaft and place it through the loops of your of pants surrounding your belt buckle so that about a foot of the rod protrudes from either side.Make a few practice swings and then hit balls with your normal swing
place a nerf football or small beachball between your elbows and hit balls .

[grumpy84]

Thanks a lot Russ! A lot of what you suggested is exactly what I've been working on the last few days after I sent a PM to member cbrian. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply as well; tons of great info to absorb and work on.

I had a pretty good session yesterday trying to employ some of what cbrian had me work on. I felt my swing had much more extension and that I had a far better path to ball on my downswing. My divots were far more consistent and the ball was starting online nicely. I've never had the feeling of getting my left shoulder well under my chin and yesterday was really eye opening. I'm pretty excited about these changes and look forward to tweaking things.

Here are a few DTL swings from yesterday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGkBzIQYY9g

[straightshot7]

I' m not an expert so I defer to others when it comes to a more in depth analysis but I will give you a couple of my thoughts which I think are accurate:

1) As suggested by others, don't change just to change or because your swing might not be prototypical. There are certain things that are mandatory (correct grip, posture, etc.) and other things that can vary (tempo, swing length, etc). So, if your swing is short and quick, that isn't necessarily a bad thing (look at Nick Price). If it is YOUR natural tempo then don't mess with it. However, the one thing I notice that I think you should work on is:

2) (Also suggested above with the restriction of the hip turn) - A One Piece Take-Away- Everything should move away from the ball together. Obviously the hands and arms will appear to move the most since they have the most distance to travel and so and on- but everything should turn in sequence- To me, it looks like you basically just take the club back with hands and arms- this isn't good. I'd work on perfecting a good one piece take away and completing a good turn/pivot and then just release everything.

I would read sliceflixer's encylopedia texarcana or new book or whatever if you haven't already.

Good job and hope this helps!

[grumpy84]

So I'm still at it trying to make positive changes to my swing. I feel I'm getting closer to where I want to be from employing some of the great advice I've received thus far. I'm pleased to report that with the changes I've made my ball striking has become more consistent and I've pretty much eliminated the ball from snapping violently left on me, which in the past was one of my worst and feared misses. Now my main miss is a predictable high push that creeps in every now and again. One thing that I'm not sure of is my club face angle at the top as it looks rather open to me and I'm not sure if this is good, bad or how to correct it. I've really been trying to eliminate the early wrist rotation at takeaway but I've found this was the hardest part to rectify for some reason. It is apparent in my face on clip that I still start my takeaway with my hands rather than my right shoulder. However, I do feel I am doing a better job not getting the club head way behind my body, which was one of my main hindrances before.

Here are a few swings from a couple days ago. Let me know what you think compared to my other clips.

[url="http://youtu.be/KycRkvH6VYQ"][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu1ysdEzlW8&context=C4bb0ba2ADvjVQa1PpcFPjT0duhnC7CXABedm75yDMeaiCeOOk9h8=[/media][/url]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KycRkvH6VYQ&context=C4ba2f8eADvjVQa1PpcFPjT0duhnC7CbLxJeQhGk3qX5DvjNFKh5s=[/media]


Please let me know what you think, good or bad.

Thanks

[grumpy84]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TefynDDzQXs&context=C44459c2ADvjVQa1PpcFPjT0duhnC7CQJVo1dG2a3fHVL8OumHBxg=[/media]

Driver DTL

[grumpy84]

Still at it. After talking with Russc a bit he mentioned a few things that I needed to work on further, one of them being my footwork. I had a terrible habit of lifting my right heel up at the top of my back swing, sometimes well before I reached the top of my back swing. I would then drive off of my right foot, rather than rolling into and pivoting over my left side/heel. This move was pretty hard for me at first but I feel I'm pretty close to "getting it".

Let me know what you think, good or bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoH_Rb64KUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5ow_oSNK-I

[grumpy84]

Here is a clip showing my 6 iron foot work. Feel I'm really getting better at implementing most of the great tips I have received. I shot a 69 (par 72) the other day with 5 birdies and an eagle. All 4 bogies were failed up and downs from green side, where I missed ~4 footers each time. Oh well, still pretty happy and my ball striking has never been this good or consistent.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NKKvLW3fSU[/media]

[PingG10guy]

Footwork looks a ton better.

[grumpy84]

Thanks man! I've been working really hard on these changes and I feel it's finally beginning to pay off. It's nice to have real direction and to actually know what to work on, rather than just spinning my wheels.

[grumpy84]

Figured I throw a little update on here. I feel like my swing has come a long way since my first post. My ball striking has never been better and I finally have a very consistent miss. My ball never goes left which one thing I was striving for. Here are a few updated clips; let me know what you think.

[media=]http://youtu.be/6pdfwpmBNOg[/media]

[media=]http://youtu.be/b-plpKckXk0[/media]

[grumpy84]

[media=]http://youtu.be/e5UmZZcqFLw[/media]

[media=]http://youtu.be/0qh2qY5mK34[/media]

[grumpy84]

[media=]http://youtu.be/EtnInKr0kEE[/media]

[media=]http://youtu.be/eaPneA_zsEY[/media]

[grumpy84]

Is it that terrible? Some feedback, bad or good, would be awesome. Any tips on how I can get my right hand to not be so strong(under the shaft at address)? It feels so unnatural to me when I try to weaken it and all it produces is weak fade/slice. My miss is towards the toe which makes me think I may be coming out of it and early extending a bit as well.

[rickbgolfer]

well.. i wouldn't say you need to fix one hand.. but both hands..because both hands are a little strong on the club... but then again.. everyone has their own style of gripping the club...

I would say this to help you out. Take a normal golf position setup without a club..and let your arms hang down naturally by your side... and then clap them together.. and notice the position of your left arm.. when you clap your hands together.. because the position of your left arm looks turned in at setup.. which would restrict your shoulder turn in your back swing.. and cause more lift... usually i call this a chicken wing type deal.

Hopefully this helps your shoulder turn going back.

[theothertomjones]

You need to work on hip rotation and weight transfer in transition. Id also like to see you move to a 3/4 swing instead of the slightly more than half swing you have now. After your timing adjusts you can work on the full backswing.

Also, I would work to hold your release longer - you come in at a good 90 angle with the wrists, but it looks like youre releasing early in the swing in which you lose power. Hold that 90 wrist position and release through the ball instead of at it. This is also going to require you to work on the proper weight transition. You will likely add 20-30 yards per club with these adjustments.

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='grumpy84' timestamp='1359659381' post='6338111']
Is it that terrible? Some feedback, bad or good, would be awesome. Any tips on how I can get my right hand to not be so strong(under the shaft at address)? It feels so unnatural to me when I try to weaken it and all it produces is weak fade/slice. My miss is towards the toe which makes me think I may be coming out of it and early extending a bit as well.
[/quote]

So, yes, to correct this Id like to see you have your right hand more on top of the grip instead of slightly under it. In other words, your palm should be facing the ground. This is going to change your timing a little, but you should see a sightly different ball flight and reduction in the slight fade frequency.

[grumpy84]

[quote name='rickbgolfer' timestamp='1359723251' post='6342573']
well.. i wouldn't say you need to fix one hand.. but both hands..because both hands are a little strong on the club... but then again.. everyone has their own style of gripping the club...

I would say this to help you out. Take a normal golf position setup without a club..and let your arms hang down naturally by your side... and then clap them together.. and notice the position of your left arm.. when you clap your hands together.. because the position of your left arm looks turned in at setup.. which would restrict your shoulder turn in your back swing.. and cause more lift... usually i call this a chicken wing type deal.

Hopefully this helps your shoulder turn going back.
[/quote]Thanks. You are right, I do have an overall strong grip. I've tried to weaken it many times but my ball striking suffers terribly when I do so. I'll continue to work on it. Thanks for the tip!

[grumpy84]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1359723795' post='6342591']
You need to work on hip rotation and weight transfer in transition. Id also like to see you move to a 3/4 swing instead of the slightly more than half swing you have now. After your timing adjusts you can work on the full backswing.

Also, I would work to hold your release longer - you come in at a good 90 angle with the wrists, but it looks like youre releasing early in the swing in which you lose power. Hold that 90 wrist position and release through the ball instead of at it. This is also going to require you to work on the proper weight transition. You will likely add 20-30 yards per club with these adjustments.
[/quote]
Are you referencing my recent clips or my earlier ones from last year? I wouldn't consider my current swing to be slightly more than a "half swing" but maybe I am wrong. I feel like my turn is much larger than it was. I really don't have much interest in making my swing longer at this point as I hit the ball plenty solid and far as is. I just want to be consistent.

Are you saying I flip at the ball at impact with my hands? I've always felt I rotate through the ball pretty well and never thought of myself as a flipper, this surprises me to hear you say I do. I hit the ball pretty far with every club in my bag as is; I couldn't imagine adding 20-30 more yards per club. Wouldn't mind a little more distance with the driver, though.

Do you think I need to get more on my left side in my transition? I am trying hard not to sway off or into the ball. I feel as if I get pretty much all of my weight over my left heel in transition and pivot through the ball well, but perhaps I am mistaken. I'll continue with the 9-3's and work on it. Thanks for your reply.

[theothertomjones]

Im not sure you understand. Im not saying you flip your wrists. What Im saying is that you stop your release (or expend its motion) at the ball, not through it. In your recent video post above, rotate your right hand so that your palm is on top of the club facing the ground. As it is in the video you are nearly underhanded with your right hand grip. This also helps drive through the ball, reduce fades, and slightly alters the ball flight.

What you think you are hitting the clubs and what you could be hitting the clubs are vastly different.

Your back swing has improved to more of a 3/4 swing since the earlier videos.

Your turning almost completely with your upper body, which is going to grind on the disks in your lower back. Its a very bad thing to do.

I would like to see you use more of your hips, which will allow you to expend less energy per swing, and also transfer that energy (when using the proper weight shift and balance) into the ball, which yields more power and distance. Thats just the biomechanics of a golf swing.

[grumpy84]

Thanks man, I completely understand now. Over the last few days I've been working on a more neutral grip, getting my left elbow pointing more at my body. Its freed up my shoulder turn a ton. I've also been working on a deeper hip turn. I feel like I am turning deeper, and like you said, expending less energy per swing and the ball is going farther. I went 69,70 on Saturday and Sunday and felt like I didn't miss a shot. Russc mentioned the feeling of getting my tailbone pointing at the target which really helped as well. What you said about turning almost entirely with my upper body and the inherent long term damage to my lower back really made me think hard about how I want to swing the golf club.

Here is a quick driver shot from Sat after my round. Grip is still a bit strong but thats going to take time to fully get comfortable with the change. How does the hip turn look to you?

This one is available in HD so the quality should be better

[media=]http://youtu.be/HyLITK6e-Sc[/media]

[theothertomjones]

Freaking beautiful!

MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER!

Next, if you can, take your right hand from the 3 oclock and put it at 12 oclock. That is the only other thing I would suggest.

With your new hip turn you should really be able to notice the momentum of your body weight going through the shot. Well done!