Advice for Phoenix trip

[isaacbm]

course selection

I'm heading to Phoenix for 10 days in mid march. The first 5 days I'm staying in the west valley and then heading to Scottsdale for the last 5. My plans for Scottsdale are all worked out but I'm looking for ideas for the west valley.

A little back ground....

The three most important things for me are price, golf course style, and conditions

I don't want to spend more than $75. I'm mostly looking on Golfnow.com for tee times

I'm going to play Raven at Verrado, Estrella golf course and Wigwam Gold. The Gold course at Wigwam is my favorite in the whole desert.

I like raven and estrella because of conditions but forced desert carries and rocks for rough are not my favorite feature on a course.


I was wondering if anyone has played some pretty decent conditioned courses in the west valley for a good price? I would love to play something that is similar to Wigwam. Huge eucalyptus trees and more of a park setting.... when I spray it, I'd rather be on grass than gravel. LOL!

I was wondering about Maryvale? I know it's the same designer as Torrey Pines and Papago (another of my favorites in the desert). I'm fine with muni's as long as they're in decent shape.

Anyone have any ideas?

[isaacbm]

Just a little bump....

anyone?

[ToughasNails]

In the middle of march you plan to play Raven, Estrella, and wigwam fOr under $75 a round? I'm heading out there next week and have been looking at rounds in Scottsdale but never found those courses under $75. Whats the secret?

[ukalum]

Keep a close eye on ezlinks.com and golfnow.com. You'll find some specials < $75, but may need to play the courses that are available.

[jshel]

If you are OK with desert, Trilogy at Vistancia is good.

If you want parkland, isn't one of the other Wigwam courses good? Can't remember which one it is with the new names.

A place I've played a few times for pretty cheap off of golfnow.com is Union Hills CC in Sun City. It's a private that is putting up some times each day on golfnow. Less than $50. Not bad at all. And they'll let you walk if you like such a thing.

Also, if you have any military connections out there, the course at Luke Air Force Base -- Falcon Dunes -- is very fun.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='ToughasNails' timestamp='1330297474' post='4382433']
In the middle of march you plan to play Raven, Estrella, and wigwam fOr under $75 a round? I'm heading out there next week and have been looking at rounds in Scottsdale but never found those courses under $75. Whats the secret?
[/quote]

all of them are listed on golf now for that price. the west Valley is way cheaper than scottsdale....

[isaacbm]

[quote name='jshel' timestamp='1330314272' post='4384867']
If you are OK with desert, Trilogy at Vistancia is good.

If you want parkland, isn't one of the other Wigwam courses good? Can't remember which one it is with the new names.

A place I've played a few times for pretty cheap off of golfnow.com is Union Hills CC in Sun City. It's a private that is putting up some times each day on golfnow. Less than $50. Not bad at all. And they'll let you walk if you like such a thing.

Also, if you have any military connections out there, the course at Luke Air Force Base -- Falcon Dunes -- is very fun.
[/quote]

Wigwam Red is pretty good too. i actually can probably play those courses for 40$ because I know the pro and he'll just charge me a cart fee... It's getting my buddies on that might be a little harder.

Trilogy at vistancia is good too but I'm thinking more parkland with less lost balls in the rocks....

I've never heard of Falcon Dunes. I'll give it a look

[isaacbm]

Thanks guys!

Any other ideas?

I might just play Popago with some Gateway tour buddies. They have an event there soon so I can probably just get out there for a cart fee.

I was just really hoping to find another course like Wigwam that I don't know about...

[deadsolid...shank]

It's been 20 years since I've played there, but San Marcos was a parkland style course. It's about as far away from the west valley as you can get (well it was when I lived there) but if you're at Pagago then it's not that much farther. As I remember, it wasn't overly difficult and conditions weren't always pristine, but I don't think there was any desert and it wasn't overly expensive.

If it's gone or closed or changed a bunch, I aplogize and just ignore me. It's the craving to move back that keeps me iin the Phoenix threads.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1330375641' post='4389829']
It's been 20 years since I've played there, but San Marcos was a parkland style course. It's about as far away from the west valley as you can get (well it was when I lived there) but if you're at Pagago then it's not that much farther. As I remember, it wasn't overly difficult and conditions weren't always pristine, but I don't think there was any desert and it wasn't overly expensive.

If it's gone or closed or changed a bunch, I aplogize and just ignore me. It's the craving to move back that keeps me iin the Phoenix threads.
[/quote]

I might actually give that one a try. It's one of the oldest in the desert (1913) and the trees are mature. Like the look and the price but have a feeling that the conditions might be average at best. I'm certainly no princess though.

thanks!

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1330409420' post='4393647']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1330375641' post='4389829']
It's been 20 years since I've played there, but San Marcos was a parkland style course. It's about as far away from the west valley as you can get (well it was when I lived there) but if you're at Pagago then it's not that much farther. As I remember, it wasn't overly difficult and conditions weren't always pristine, but I don't think there was any desert and it wasn't overly expensive.

If it's gone or closed or changed a bunch, I aplogize and just ignore me. It's the craving to move back that keeps me iin the Phoenix threads.
[/quote]

I might actually give that one a try. It's one of the oldest in the desert (1913) and the trees are mature. Like the look and the price but have a feeling that the conditions might be average at best. I'm certainly no princess though.

thanks!
[/quote]


Parkland style courses in Phoenix are few and the ones that are interesting are even fewer. Thing is, why travel to Phoenix just to play a midwestern style course? The desert style golf has matured a lot over the years as designers have learned and improved the experience from the early efforts which I must agree, were very penal. As well, perhaps you can look into the courses on tribal land where the turf restrictions are not in effect allowing more grass (still with surrounding natural environment), Talking Stick (North course is one of my favorites), We-Ko-Pa and Whirlwind for example.

Suggestions for "parkland" style courses:

A newly available option is Moon Valley Country Club, a private that recently began accepting public play. N. Central PHX.

San Marcos is a nice traditional layout, however it suffers from shoestring maintenance. One other issue is they have carved away pieces of the course over the years to jam in real estate making for some awkward holes.

You asked about Maryvale, a city of PHX muni with marginal maintenance but not an awful course. Very compact tree-lined routing. In a no-so-great neighborhood.

Dobson Ranch is a city of Mesa Muni that is above average condition wise and a pretty good layout.

McCormick Ranch. 36-holes. Haven't been out there for a while so not familiar with current conditioning.

Other parkland style courses you might hear about but I wouldn't recommend:
- Biltmore Adobe - Actually a WP Bell design originally, completely renovated/redesigned. Not very inspiring except for the mansion-like homes surrounding the course.
- Camelback Padre course. Up until the early 90's, Camelback was one of the top "upscale" publics in town. It lost its luster as the flashy desert foothill courses started popping up. It was a cool course with great greens until they decided to renovate it and brought in Art Hills who totally vandalized it.
- Ocotillo - 27 holes, water hazards on 22. Yuck, yuck yuck.
-Hillcrest - once very nice, now a goat track. I'm no princess either but played it in January and was horrified. The greens were putting like they just came out of overseed, rolling about 7. I gave up even caring about score by the eleventh hole.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1330449981' post='4395755']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1330409420' post='4393647']
[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1330375641' post='4389829']
It's been 20 years since I've played there, but San Marcos was a parkland style course. It's about as far away from the west valley as you can get (well it was when I lived there) but if you're at Pagago then it's not that much farther. As I remember, it wasn't overly difficult and conditions weren't always pristine, but I don't think there was any desert and it wasn't overly expensive.

If it's gone or closed or changed a bunch, I aplogize and just ignore me. It's the craving to move back that keeps me iin the Phoenix threads.
[/quote]

I might actually give that one a try. It's one of the oldest in the desert (1913) and the trees are mature. Like the look and the price but have a feeling that the conditions might be average at best. I'm certainly no princess though.

thanks!
[/quote]


Parkland style courses in Phoenix are few and the ones that are interesting are even fewer. Thing is, why travel to Phoenix just to play a midwestern style course? The desert style golf has matured a lot over the years as designers have learned and improved the experience from the early efforts which I must agree, were very penal. As well, perhaps you can look into the courses on tribal land where the turf restrictions are not in effect allowing more grass (still with surrounding natural environment), Talking Stick (North course is one of my favorites), We-Ko-Pa and Whirlwind for example.

Suggestions for "parkland" style courses:

A newly available option is Moon Valley Country Club, a private that recently began accepting public play. N. Central PHX.

San Marcos is a nice traditional layout, however it suffers from shoestring maintenance. One other issue is they have carved away pieces of the course over the years to jam in real estate making for some awkward holes.

You asked about Maryvale, a city of PHX muni with marginal maintenance but not an awful course. Very compact tree-lined routing. In a no-so-great neighborhood.

Dobson Ranch is a city of Mesa Muni that is above average condition wise and a pretty good layout.

McCormick Ranch. 36-holes. Haven't been out there for a while so not familiar with current conditioning.

Other parkland style courses you might hear about but I wouldn't recommend:
- Biltmore Adobe - Actually a WP Bell design originally, completely renovated/redesigned. Not very inspiring except for the mansion-like homes surrounding the course.
- Camelback Padre course. Up until the early 90's, Camelback was one of the top "upscale" publics in town. It lost its luster as the flashy desert foothill courses started popping up. It was a cool course with great greens until they decided to renovate it and brought in Art Hills who totally vandalized it.
- Ocotillo - 27 holes, water hazards on 22. Yuck, yuck yuck.
-Hillcrest - once very nice, now a goat track. I'm no princess either but played it in January and was horrified. The greens were putting like they just came out of overseed, rolling about 7. I gave up even caring about score by the eleventh hole.
[/quote]

Great post! Thanks!

I played on the gateway tour in Phoenix and other than Arrowhead and Mccormick almost every course was modern desert course. Vista Verde, Raven, Trilogy at Vistancia, Las sendas....

I like some of those courses and half of my trip I'm playing with buddies at those courses but I personally like a little variety too. I actually like the indian bend course at Camelback a lot more than the other one. I love the tight tree lined fairways and smallish greens. That's actually a good option that I forgot about.

there certainly are a lot of great options out there! I wish I still lived in Phoenix during the winters

Thanks!