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TaylorMade buys Adams Golf -- CEO Mark King: “We want Adams to keep its identity”


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[quote name='Peragus4' timestamp='1332455629' post='4559000']
I understand alot of the objections to the sale, but there are a few statements about the purchase that I really question. First off, the thought that TMAG bought Adams because of the speedslot issue. Frankly if that's the case, Nike takes them both down, Nike released the compression channel more than a year before Adams released the Woods with Speedslot.

Secondly, if TM is really buying Adams to get rid of it, why even bother conducting a CEO search? If they really wanted to get rid of it, they would place it as a division of TM, not a separate brand under the Adidas Group.
[/quote]


although nike's compression channel was first...and lots of people think the tech is the same [b]it is not[/b].

If it was, you better believe that the Nike lawyers would be all over Adams still ripping a hole in "....". Nike is one nasty company when it comes to patent and intellectual property protection.
The same cannot be said of the Adams slot tech and TM RBz speed slot...that is a complete copy...in fact I would go out on the limb and say that the reason the RBz came out with the speed slot is probably because TM already had this deal on the Back burner and they knew that there would be no legal issues.

So you could say the RBz is the first product that involves the 'synergies between two companies" there I said it!

Maybe the TM's CEO KIng is going to stand by his own words...

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[quote name='MCoz' timestamp='1332615648' post='4570812']
[quote name='youngwaldo' timestamp='1332594288' post='4569240']
Adams sales rep told me for one reason TM bought Adams was for the speed slot technology.

Wk
[/quote]
That is not true. There is no trademark issue between the two. If there was TM could have licensed that for a small fraction of the $70 mil purchase price.
It has been noted continuously that the company reps knowledge is in their product, they are not privy to inside company business and this is precisely why, confidential info would be public immediately. His statement was a defensive comment. I am not calling him a liar. Often reps hear things from above that might imply something else that sounds "good". I can tell you that he didn't get that info from a company memo.
[/quote]

...really? and here I though you said you had no direct involvement with the TMAG/ADAMS deal.

The comments above suggest otherwise, and although I love debating with people in the know...what I do not like is someone attempting to hold information "over my head" and thinking that they are smarter or better then me or other posters, because you might have access to some privilaged information that others do not. With all due respect this does not make you smarter or better then other posters on this site.

IT IS THAT KIND mentality that has gotten this country in trouble. Of course this is another debate and not appropriate for this forum.

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[quote name='devlin3000' timestamp='1332645949' post='4573746']
[quote name='MCoz' timestamp='1332615648' post='4570812']
[quote name='youngwaldo' timestamp='1332594288' post='4569240']
Adams sales rep told me for one reason TM bought Adams was for the speed slot technology.

Wk
[/quote]
That is not true. There is no trademark issue between the two. If there was TM could have licensed that for a small fraction of the $70 mil purchase price.
It has been noted continuously that the company reps knowledge is in their product, they are not privy to inside company business and this is precisely why, confidential info would be public immediately. His statement was a defensive comment. I am not calling him a liar. Often reps hear things from above that might imply something else that sounds "good". I can tell you that he didn't get that info from a company memo.
[/quote]

...really? and here I though you said you had no direct involvement with the TMAG/ADAMS deal.

The comments above suggest otherwise, and although I love debating with people in the know...what I do not like is someone attempting to hold information "over my head" and thinking that they are smarter or better then me or other posters, because you might have access to some privilaged information that others do not. With all due respect this does not make you smarter or better then other posters on this site.

IT IS THAT KIND mentality that has gotten this country in trouble. Of course this is another debate and not appropriate for this forum.
[/quote]
I have not said anywhere that I think that I am smarter than anyone here. I am better informed about many issues in this industry, but that is circumstances that others do not have. Although I should point out again that I have no financial involvement. The problem here (and in other walks of life, is that "common sense" is often challenged by some. Such as: no one at this level of business is spending $70 to eliminate a competator that only does about $100 mil or less in sales, nor are they doing that because of the companies R&D dept, they could hire them away for a small fraction and the same is true if they wanted to license a patent or buy some technology. Realistically they could have had all of that for around $10 mil of less.
Some people here have no concept of money or business at this level. Now I am knocking anyone that doesn't have that, only a small percentage of people do. But when they make wild claims (with no relevance) of what they want to think without really knowing the playing field, they are not making themselves look good. These are beyond opinions, these comments are pure fantasy without any basis in reality.

In the bag: Playing --- TaylorMade  Qi 10 (core) driver w/Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S. 3wd TM (OG) SIM (special smaller tour only head, same that TW was playing prior to the '24 Genesis approx 160cc) @ 15.*) with Fujikura Ventus 7-S.  5 wd TM SIM w/Fujikura Speeder 857TR-S (Japan made)

HyBrids-Cleveland Hi-Bore #1 (16* plays like 2-Iron) W/Fuji-S Tipped 1/2".  SIM Max #4 (set @ 21.5* w/ Fuji Atmos HB8 9S.  IRONS:  TM M3 4i (2*weak)w SteelFiber i95-S,  P790 3, 5-PW,  w/Fuji Pro 95i-S. SW TM MG4  54*/11 bent to 53*/10 w/ Precision Rifle 6.0-S. LW TaylorMade Hi Toe 3, 58/10 w/Modus Tour 105 Stiff. Putter-- BOBBY GRACE Night&Day-Custom, "M.Coz-Bandsaw Prototype". Ball 2022 TaylorMade Tour Response
 Alternating clubs: the 5wd, TM Hybrid Stealth 2+ #2, 3Iron, depending on what part of the country, course, climate, and conditions.

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Spoke with a guy who used to be an engineer for Adams and still is used for consulting from time to time. From what he's been told nothing will happen for 90 days which I assume is around how long it will take to get a deal finalized or whatever. Adams still has 2 years left on the building lease in Plano and everything will run as normal for one year. After one year Adams may be moved, no one knows right now. From what he's been told it looks like Adams is going to become a value brand.

Didn't read through the entire thread so if already posted, sorry.

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  • 4 weeks later...

[quote name='goondawg ' timestamp='1332778532' post='4583774']
Spoke with a guy who used to be an engineer for Adams and still is used for consulting from time to time. From what he's been told nothing will happen for 90 days which I assume is around how long it will take to get a deal finalized or whatever. Adams still has 2 years left on the building lease in Plano and everything will run as normal for one year. After one year Adams may be moved, no one knows right now. [b]From what he's been told it looks like Adams is going to become a value brand. [/b]

Didn't read through the entire thread so if already posted, sorry.
[/quote]

Can we start a "Free Adams" movement here on the WRX?

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Value brand? Very disappointing if true. I shutter at the thought of TMAG dumbing down Adams' offerings to sell at a discounted price. IMO, Adams was putting out some of the most quality golf equipment in the industry, it's just a shame their marketing department was inept. Hopefully TMAG discounts all old stock to get it out the door, then I can buy a few back up sets and be done.

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Guys, lets be honest. No one here really knows what will happen. But I read through most the comments.

The fantastic sources I heard were:

Guy who used to work for the company
Sales rep
I read it online
I heard from a friend
I think i know what happened with other brands in other situations.

None of it is in the realm of conclusive.

Adams has one year with the full backing of the largest company in golf. One year is the amount of time it would take for any meaninful changes to occur, good or bad. Adams will go through this year with the full support of TaylorMade, the company with the most resources, the best marketing and unquestionably the most tour presence and visibility.

If they succeed, they probably will be allowed to continue to do so. If they do not changes will be made. That is business.

And FYI

Golfwrx is a miniscule minority of the golfing world and does not represent the golfing world.

The TaylorMade hate here is a bit hilarious.

TaylorMade is the number one driver on all tours in both starts and wins. Please tell me how anyone here is more of a 0-4 handicap than world number one and his RBZ driver.

Adams does have great ladies and senior products and they spend more time and money promoting them then anyone else. Look at their packaged sets for women and juniors they do a fantastic job with them.

TaylorMade has offerings for these markets but they generally are out of the price range of the majority of golfers and by purchasing Adams can expand into markets they are not currently in.

They do make great tour equipment but it sales do not reflect the quality. Most golfers that purchase equipment will not spend 299 for a titanium hybrid when they can get a club that performs similarly for 179.

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I will say I've had two shafts snap in my CB2s in the last month, one on my 8 iron hitting a ball out of the fairway, and one last week on my 7 iron during a follow through against a tree. Golfsmith sent them to Adams, and they are fixing the clubs free of charge. I got the 8 iron back already, and the 7 iron is on its way. Seems like business as usual for Adams, for now at least...

I'm really hoping they don't change their offerings. I'm a huge fan of what they've put out the last few years.

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[quote name='ike31197' timestamp='1335228030' post='4777194']
I will say I've had two shafts snap in my CB2s in the last month, one on my 8 iron hitting a ball out of the fairway, and one last week on my 7 iron during a follow through against a tree. Golfsmith sent them to Adams, and they are fixing the clubs free of charge. I got the 8 iron back already, and the 7 iron is on its way. Seems like business as usual for Adams, for now at least...

I'm really hoping they don't change their offerings. I'm a huge fan of what they've put out the last few years.
[/quote]

You have to stop kicking your golf bag, or perfecting your club throwing technique.

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I have done some research into the actual business of Adams. Everyone here that is afraid of Adams losing what many here think is their identity with the better/tour players equipment.
READ THIS: It appears that less than 10% of their sales (less than $7 mil)comes from the equipment that people here are afraid to lose!! Maybe the TMAG guys know something more about where Adams core business is than the rest of us here!!

In the bag: Playing --- TaylorMade  Qi 10 (core) driver w/Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S. 3wd TM (OG) SIM (special smaller tour only head, same that TW was playing prior to the '24 Genesis approx 160cc) @ 15.*) with Fujikura Ventus 7-S.  5 wd TM SIM w/Fujikura Speeder 857TR-S (Japan made)

HyBrids-Cleveland Hi-Bore #1 (16* plays like 2-Iron) W/Fuji-S Tipped 1/2".  SIM Max #4 (set @ 21.5* w/ Fuji Atmos HB8 9S.  IRONS:  TM M3 4i (2*weak)w SteelFiber i95-S,  P790 3, 5-PW,  w/Fuji Pro 95i-S. SW TM MG4  54*/11 bent to 53*/10 w/ Precision Rifle 6.0-S. LW TaylorMade Hi Toe 3, 58/10 w/Modus Tour 105 Stiff. Putter-- BOBBY GRACE Night&Day-Custom, "M.Coz-Bandsaw Prototype". Ball 2022 TaylorMade Tour Response
 Alternating clubs: the 5wd, TM Hybrid Stealth 2+ #2, 3Iron, depending on what part of the country, course, climate, and conditions.

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[quote name='Doublebuck' timestamp='1335235060' post='4778126']
[quote name='ike31197' timestamp='1335228030' post='4777194']
I will say I've had two shafts snap in my CB2s in the last month, one on my 8 iron hitting a ball out of the fairway, and one last week on my 7 iron during a follow through against a tree. Golfsmith sent them to Adams, and they are fixing the clubs free of charge. I got the 8 iron back already, and the 7 iron is on its way. Seems like business as usual for Adams, for now at least...

I'm really hoping they don't change their offerings. I'm a huge fan of what they've put out the last few years.
[/quote]

You have to stop kicking your golf bag, or perfecting your club throwing technique.
[/quote]


Haha, I'm actually surprised how brittle the KBS Tour 90 X shafts are. I haven't broken a club in 10 years, now this? I went from S400's to these. At any rate, I'm happy Adams is fixing these at no cost. The 8 iron snapped right at the hosel, a clean break. The club head almost flew into a water hazard, luckily I was able to retrieve it. It was clearly a warranty issue, I bought these brand new last year. The 7 iron was all my fault, should have just taken an unplayable. Breaking a club on a tree during a practice round is just stupid. I was actually surprised they fixed this one, it was all my fault.

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[quote name='MCoz' timestamp='1335250541' post='4779158']
I have done some research into the actual business of Adams. Everyone here that is afraid of Adams losing what many here think is their identity with the better/tour players equipment.
READ THIS: It appears that less than 10% of their sales (less than $7 mil)comes from the equipment that people here are afraid to lose!! Maybe the TMAG guys know something more about where Adams core business is than the rest of us here!!
[/quote]

Huh?

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[quote name='MCoz' timestamp='1335250541' post='4779158']
I have done some research into the actual business of Adams. Everyone here that is afraid of Adams losing what many here think is their identity with the better/tour players equipment.
READ THIS: It appears that less than 10% of their sales (less than $7 mil)comes from the equipment that people here are afraid to lose!! Maybe the TMAG guys know something more about where Adams core business is than the rest of us here!!
[/quote]

Any chance you could actually qualify this statement?

And having said that, are you now just not rationalizing what most of us have feared all along? That Adams will be reduced to a value brand like the so many other brands that have already been mentioned in this thread?

Because they just don't do enough sales in the better player category to warrant the continuation of that line, right? So it only make sense that TM kill their better player products and ask them to concentrate on what they do well - women's and senior clubs.

If you think this is good for Adams then you're either biased, ignorant or on the TM payroll. And I know you're not ignorant.

The great thing about this thread is that it will stand as a written record that can be reviewed in hindsight. Let's come back in 2 or 3 years time and see exactly where Adams is at.

TaylorMade Qi10 Designer Series (Black Out) 10.5* 
Callaway BB Alpha 816 16*
Srixon Z H45 Hybrid 19* 
Srixon ZX Utility 23*
Srixon ZX5 Mk II 5-AW

Callaway Jaws Raw Black 54 & 58
TaylorMade Spider Tour Black / Mizuno M.Craft OMOI #1
Bridgestone Tour RX

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Let me preface these comments with the fact that I realize this topic has been beaten to death, but I will write this anyway. Also, I am no TM hater. I like TM gear.

With respect to the "synergies", I personally see lots of problems.

IMHO (and it is just that, my opinion) as to which company has the better overall product line in each category in terms of [b][u]performance[/u][/b] (not sales, obviously TM wins that every time):

[u]Driver[/u]: Draw

[u]Fairway[/u]: Draw

[u]Hybrids[/u]: Adams and it is not even close (even though TM puts out a great hybrid).

[u]Irons[/u]: Adams, not even close (better in every category- players, semi-players, GI, SGI)

[u]Wedges[/u]: Draw (major shortcoming with both companies)

[u]Putters[/u]: TM, not even close

[u]Balls[/u]: Duh. TM. I actually think the Penta is the best ball on the market

[b]HOWEVER[/b], TM's management would obviously disagree. I am sure they believe TM is superior in every category with the exception of seniors and women (and that view would be defensible). Therefore, I believe TM management when they say the two companies have synergy. Because TM really does believe that Adams is not a true competitor, I am "hoping" that TM will simply let Adams run as a separate company.

Fingers crossed.......

Mizuno JPX-900 | Fujikura Speeder EVO II 661
Adams Super Hybrid XTD 17*
Mizuno JPX-900 Hybrid 21*
Taylormade P790 (5-Gap)
Callaway MD3 (58, 54)
Taylormade Spider Tour

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[quote name='Ugo DeRosa' timestamp='1335407567' post='4791274']


[u]Putters[/u]: TM, not even close


[/quote]

While I agree with the majority of your list more or less, are you aware that Adam's golf owned YES! putters which are in my opinion easily comparable to the Rossa line.

WITB:
Driver: Ping G400 LST 8.5* Kuro Kage Silver TINI 70s
FW: Ping G25 4 wood Kuro Kage Silver TINI 80s
Utility: 20* King Forged Utility One Length C Taper Lite S
Irons: King Forged One Length 4-PW C Taper Lite S
Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin 50, 54, 58
Putter: Custom Directed Force Reno 2.0 48" 80* Lie Side Saddle

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[quote name='Rohlio' timestamp='1335412092' post='4791854']
[quote name='Ugo DeRosa' timestamp='1335407567' post='4791274']
[u]Putters[/u]: TM, not even close


[/quote]

While I agree with the majority of your list more or less, are you aware that Adam's golf owned YES! putters which are in my opinion easily comparable to the Rossa line.
[/quote]


I am aware of Adams' acquisition of Yes. Also I buy a fair bit of Adams gear and the "Yes" logo is on the Adams boxes, lest anyone forget. One of my group plays with a Yes putter and it is quite nice. However, I think if you look at the overall putter line ups of TM and Yes, in my subjective opinion TM has the better overall line up. Also, as compared to Yes, I think TM putters get quite a bit more play on the professional level. But again, just my opinion, I could be wrong...

Mizuno JPX-900 | Fujikura Speeder EVO II 661
Adams Super Hybrid XTD 17*
Mizuno JPX-900 Hybrid 21*
Taylormade P790 (5-Gap)
Callaway MD3 (58, 54)
Taylormade Spider Tour

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[quote name='Ugo DeRosa' timestamp='1335415594' post='4792172']
[quote name='Rohlio' timestamp='1335412092' post='4791854']
[quote name='Ugo DeRosa' timestamp='1335407567' post='4791274']
[u]Putters[/u]: TM, not even close


[/quote]

While I agree with the majority of your list more or less, are you aware that Adam's golf owned YES! putters which are in my opinion easily comparable to the Rossa line.
[/quote]


I am aware of Adams' acquisition of Yes. Also I buy a fair bit of Adams gear and the "Yes" logo is on the Adams boxes, lest anyone forget. One of my group plays with a Yes putter and it is quite nice. However, I think if you look at the overall putter line ups of TM and Yes, in my subjective opinion TM has the better overall line up. Also, as compared to Yes, I think TM putters get quite a bit more play on the professional level. But again, just my opinion, I could be wrong...
[/quote]

That is a fine and fair opinion. I just thought that saying it was "not even close" was a bit of stretch. Now if you are comparing it to the "Adams" branded putters that come with their all in one sets I would agree "Not even close".

WITB:
Driver: Ping G400 LST 8.5* Kuro Kage Silver TINI 70s
FW: Ping G25 4 wood Kuro Kage Silver TINI 80s
Utility: 20* King Forged Utility One Length C Taper Lite S
Irons: King Forged One Length 4-PW C Taper Lite S
Wedges: Cleveland 588 RTX 2.0 Black Satin 50, 54, 58
Putter: Custom Directed Force Reno 2.0 48" 80* Lie Side Saddle

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